Chanakya in Porus ! - Page 2

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EtherealRati thumbnail
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Posted: 7 years ago
#11
Okay one thing i wanted to clear...i dont mean to attack chanakya or prove him a monster through my above post...i hardly know the character (except what i listened from dadi, mummy, papa)...so my intention is not that. I just want some answers ...like Why he cheated a person like Porus who defended India ? Usko repsect milni chahiye thi na ...Why he just wanted chandragupt to become ruler of akhand bharat ...why other kings never got a chance to rule in his eyes?...Why he dint fight in any of the wars and why ended up starving himself to death ?...Why Anusuya and Puru can't see a dream of akhand bharat and the dream only belongs to Chanakya ?
sashashyam thumbnail
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Posted: 7 years ago
#12
OK, my dear Surbhi, it is too late now and my fingers are hurting badly. I really don't know why I am so ill disciplined as not to restrict my typing!

Tomorrow I will try my best to clear your doubts about Chanakya. I say "try" because sometimes ideas are so deep rooted that they cannot be altered by any amount of explanations. If you are still of the same mind after my attempt, then at least it won't be my fault!

But no one can acquire a reputation like Chanakya's without a valid reason for it. That reputation cannot be shaken so.easily, nor is it based on his being a lily-white moralist.

You need to do some more reading on these subjects. You will really enjoy it.

For example, once Chandragupta Maurya was crowned, Chanakya handed over the prime ministership to Amatya Katyayan, who.had been Dhananand's PM - whom he considered the best man for th e job- and retired to his ashram where, over the next 14 years, he compiled his Arthashastra. He did NOT want to rule by proxy, as you seem to be assuming.

Also, the TV characters are often not the same as the real ones.

Shyamala Aunty

Originally posted by: EtherealRati

Okay one thing i wanted to clear...i dont mean to attack chanakya or prove him a monster through my above post...i hardly know the character (except what i listened from dadi, mummy, papa)...so my intention is not that. I just want some answers ...like Why he cheated a person like Porus who defended India ? Usko repsect milni chahiye thi na ...Why he just wanted chandragupt to become ruler of akhand bharat ...why other kings never got a chance to rule in his eyes?...Why he dint fight in any of the wars and why ended up starving himself to death ?...Why Anusuya and Puru can't see a dream of akhand bharat and the dream only belongs to Chanakya ?

Edited by sashashyam - 7 years ago
luckySnow thumbnail
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Posted: 7 years ago
#13

Originally posted by: EtherealRati

Okay one thing i wanted to clear...i dont mean to attack chanakya or prove him a monster through my above post...i hardly know the character (except what i listened from dadi, mummy, papa)...so my intention is not that. I just want some answers ...like Why he cheated a person like Porus who defended India ? Usko repsect milni chahiye thi na ...Why he just wanted chandragupt to become ruler of akhand bharat ...why other kings never got a chance to rule in his eyes?...Why he dint fight in any of the wars and why ended up starving himself to death ?...Why Anusuya and Puru can't see a dream of akhand bharat and the dream only belongs to Chanakya ?


Chandragupta was handsomely defeated by Dhananad twice and chankya and co has to hide in the forest...But people revolted against dhanaand due to corruption and Chandragupta and chankya took advantage of it..This is truth...Porus was played by Chankya..ttough popular belief is that his macedonian general eudemus killed him .After his death paurava went to puru illegitimate son ( his sons died in battle against Alexander) but he also died under suspicious circumstances...And finally Chandragupta won it...
Edited by luckySnow - 7 years ago
Fruitcustard_9 thumbnail
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Posted: 7 years ago
#14


D general who murder Puru had some personal enimity also with king puru

Chanakya choice was not wrong , CGM was a very gud ruler,

Akhand Bharat was not possible through moral science, moral science follow karne vale log of panchtantra ki kahaniyo Mai milenge
. Akhand Bharat ke liye Ko bhi aage nhi aaya ek Chanakya Ko chod

Sapna to har koi dekh Sakta hai , sapne pure karne ki himmat kisi kisi Mai hi hoti

Chanakya never ruled India , infact he never anything from d royal family being prime minister, I lead his life simply

King poras was brave but not a true deshbhakt Varna he would had never helped Alex in other wars of india nears rivers beas & Ravi.

Most important fact poras defended his kingdom not Bharat from Alexander

If CGM & chanakya was not there selecus nicator would had captured bharat

Character like anusuya only talk about big things but do only uneeded Mahanta , I don't see what lady done 4 akhand Bharat accept giving bhasans,
akhand Bharat bhasanbaji , unneeded Mahanta se nhi ban Sakta that na.

King poras was never a akhand Bharat freak

Shivaji , Bajirao , Chanakya , Prithviraj , Chandragupta & many more history definitely respect them a lot , don't consider them wrong co they did that what was needed at that time

Bhasanbaji to Sabse aasan hoti hai

Kisiko Bina jane usse selfish kehna bhi bahut aasan hota hai, jab aap jante hi nhi us samay kya halaat the to apply kisi Ko selfish bhi nhi keh sakte

Chanakya personally dint gained anything in Akhand bharat


In this serial one side we have anusuya who always have big talks & uneeded Mahanta , other side we have ripudaman who did what was necessary at that time without doing bhasanbaji & uneeded mahanta
Edited by deepikagupta9 - 7 years ago
sashashyam thumbnail
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Posted: 7 years ago
#15
Dear Lucky Snow,

It is no secret that Chandragupta, and the ragtag army Chanakya was able to cobble together, were defeated "handsomely" by Dhananand twice. There was nothing surprising about it given the strength of Dhananand's armed forces, about which Porus earlier briefed Alexander in full, and which surely affected Alexander's calculations despite his burning desire to push on into further into India..

What was admirable was that Chandragupta and Chanakya rallied again and again, for they had faith in their cause, and at last were able to put together a winning coalition that forced Dhananand to flee into exile. It was like the Scottish king Robert Bruce, who won against the English only on his fourteenth attempt, though C&C did not have to try so many times! Such ironclad self-belief and commitment to a cause is admirable, not something to be derided.

C&C did not win because the Magadha population rebelled effectively against Dhananand. If that was so they would have done it long ago, for Dhananand was a tyrant and his reign crushed the populace. It was more because Chanakya had bribed and won over Dhananand's commander in chief, Bhadrasaal, and thus weakened the resolve and unity of Dhananand's army considerably. In such situations, it is almost always the army that decides the outcome.

As for the death of Porus, he was assassinated by Eudemus, one the Macedonian generals who fought in the Diadochi wars for getting as large a slice as possible of Alexander's conquests in India. He was not, as someone might misunderstand from your post, one of Porus' Macedonian generals.

In 326 BC, Eudemus was appointed by Alexander the Great to the command of the Macedonian troops left in India. This was after the murder of the earlier Alexander-appointed satrap Philip by his own mercenary Indian troops that year

Alexander dispatched letters to India to Eudemus and also to Ambhi telling them to take charge of the district formerly under Philip, until Alexander could send a satrap to govern the district. This was what was done. Porus ruled the territories given to him by Alexander plus his own kingdom.

Alexander died in 323 BC, Once this happened, Eudemus got a free hand. He had Porus assassinated so as to seize his territories, and his elephants, which he wanted to use for his struggle against the other Diadochi generals, especially Antigones. However, he was murdered by Antigones. So the assassination of Porus was a product of the internecine fighting among the Macedonian generals, nothing else. It had nothing to do with Chanakya.

Again, Laghu Paurava ( laghu meaning 'small') was the illegitimate brother of Porus. He rebelled against Porus and later fled to Magadha. He was part of the C&C coalition against Dhananand, but he wanted half of the Magadha empire and an even larger part of the treasury. So he incited the other coalition partners to demand a partition of Magadha and its riches immediately. To do this would have fragmented Magadha, reduced the campaign against Dhananand to a looting exercise, and destroyed any chances of forming an Akhanda Bharat. So Chanakya, who was never squeamish about such things, had Laghu Paurava killed, and matters settled down.

The upshot of all this was that the Mauryan empire eventually united almost the whole of the subcontinent and a large part of modern Afghanistan, and it was well ruled, for the great benefit of its citizens, till it collapsed 47 years after the death of Ashoka.

Shyamala Cowsik

Originally posted by: luckySnow


Chandragupta was handsomely defeated by Dhananad twice and chankya and co has to hide in the forest...But people revolted against dhanaand due to corruption and Chandragupta and chankya took advantage of it..This is truth...Porus was played by Chankya..ttough popular belief is that his macedonian general eudemus killed him .After his death paurava went to puru illegitimate son ( his sons died in battle against Alexander) but he also died under suspicious circumstances...And finally Chandragupta won it...

Originally posted by: EtherealRati

Okay one thing i wanted to clear...i dont mean to attack chanakya or prove him a monster through my above post...i hardly know the character (except what i listened from dadi, mummy, papa)...so my intention is not that. I just want some answers ...like Why he cheated a person like Porus who defended India ? Usko repsect milni chahiye thi na ...Why he just wanted chandragupt to become ruler of akhand bharat ...why other kings never got a chance to rule in his eyes?...Why he dint fight in any of the wars and why ended up starving himself to death ?...Why Anusuya and Puru can't see a dream of akhand bharat and the dream only belongs to Chanakya ?



Edited by sashashyam - 7 years ago
sashashyam thumbnail
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Posted: 7 years ago
#16
My dear Sree,

Aap pichle do mahine se kahan the, beta? If you had been active in this forum since I got here on March 28 last, I would not have had to do half the writing I did. Your arguments are admirably precise and to the point. 👏You have saved me more than half of my planned response to Surbhi. Thank you, my dear!

Chanakya did not have to fight any wars. He was a teacher all his life, and he was the brains behind the Akhanda Bharat campaign, while Chandragupta was the brawn.

I am off to the hospital now, and depending on when I come back and the state of my hands then, I shall be back with you later in the day. One thing, I have to dial back drastically on my endless posting, or my hands will collapse. You carry on the good work!

Shyamala Aunty

Originally posted by: x_sree_


And also Perhaps each and every Indians dream about making India Great or wishes to see India at the Top (with some exceptions of some extreme bad guy), then what makes Chanakya, Shivaji & Peshwa Bajirao different from all others??? It's not because they were great dreamers, but because they were people with great visions, they dreamed they worked hard to achieve their dreams, and also they succeeded in achieveing their dreams. Atleast till the time They were alive they brought great progresses in India, Shivaji & Bajirao were slightly unfortunate coz just after their death their visions and hard work fell flat because of the internal feud going on in their family, but Chanakya visions existed for a bit more days, uptil the reign of Ashoka.

inlieu thumbnail
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Posted: 7 years ago
#17
Aunty, thanks for the interesting background on Chanakya and Chandragupta.
Did you know that Rohit played Bhadrasaal in the Chandragupta Maurya show on Imagine TV a few years ago? 😉
inlieu thumbnail
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Posted: 7 years ago
#18

Originally posted by: x_sree_


Was he the same guy who gave Chanakya his life's biggest defeat in the show???


Sorry, I don't know much about Bhadrasaal's history, just that he was used by Chanakya for some of his strategic moves.

Will wait for Aunty to return and enlighten us. 😆
sashashyam thumbnail
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Posted: 7 years ago
#19
Dear Sree,

I am waiting for my orthopaedist, who appears to be coping with some difficult patients. So I decided to sneak this post in!😆

Porus was not a puppet of Alexander's, he was his ally. As such he had to do the things an ally usually does. The thing was that he wanted above all to spare his people the horrors of war, and he did what was necessary to this end. Not all can be a Maharana Pratap, fighting against impossible odds his whole life long. Porus was a very good and responsible king and he looked after his praja as best he could, and he did exceptionally well in this respect in those turbulent times. Had
Alexander lived longer, things would have been better for Porus, for they both had a great deal of respect for each other.

In this context, what I do not at all like in Porus is the virulent hostility between Alexander and Porus that has emerged due to this bizarre expedition of Puru's to Persia. There is acute animosity, and worse, a lack of respect for the other, more on Puru's side than Alexander's, for Alexander vocally admires Puru's intelligence and strength. This will make it near impossible for the CVs to end the show in the traditional manner, the Treat me as one king treats another line. Let us see what happens, and how quickly!

I am glad you enjoyed my post. I enjoyed your comments. I only wish you had turned up sooner.

Yes, one last point. That was not Bhadrasaal, it was Amatya Katyayan, or Amatya Rakshas, Dhananand's Amatya Pramukh. Bhadrasaal was involved in fraud in the procurement of horses for the army and the royal stables, and he was blackmailed and bribed, at the same time, by Chanakya's aide into letting the coalition forces into Pataliputra, with the promise that he would be amply rewarded. I don't know what the real Bhadrasaal did, but the one in the 1990 Chanakya committed suicide when he found that his treachery towards Dhananand had merely left him high and dry.

Much of what Chanakya did during the pre-Mauryan period is like a Le Carre novel, all smoke and mirrors!

Shyamala Aunty

QUOTE=x_sree_]
It was another amazing piece of info Aunty!!! Loved reading about it!
From your post it's quite clear that Puru also became a puppet in the hands of Alexander after the battle of Hydaspes. So we can't actually give credits of the vision of Akhand Bharat, like Sony's Porus is giving him.


Dear Lucky Snow,

It is no secret that Chandragupta, and the ragtag army Chanakya was able to cobble together, were defeated "handsomely" by Dhananand twice. There was nothing surprising about it given the strength of Dhananand's armed forces, about which Porus earlier briefed Alexander in full, and which surely affected Alexander's calculations despite his burning desire to push on into further into India..

Exactly their dream and ambition didn't blow out after facing one or two failures, they persevered and persevered until and unless they finally found success!!! That's why their dreams were not a mere dream but a vision for which they worked hard, which noone at that era could properly think about even.

What was admirable was that Chandragupta and Chanakya rallied again and again, for they had faith in their cause, and at last were able to put together a winning coalition that forced Dhananand to flee into exile. It was like the Scottish king Robert Bruce, who won against the English only on his fourteenth attempt, though C&C did not have to try so many times! Such ironclad self-belief and commitment to a cause is admirable, not something to be derided.

+101

CCC&C did not win because the Magadha population rebelled effectively against Dhananand. If that was so they would have done it long ago, for Dhananand was a tyrant and his reign crushed the populace. It was more because Chanakya had bribed and won over Dhananand's commander in chief, Bhadrasaal, and thus weakened the resolve and unity of Dhananand's army considerably. In such situations, it is almost always the army that decides the outcome.

You know what I feel Aunty, Chanakya can never be categorized in black & white region. He was a devil Still he was an angel!! He was a devil for each and every hindrance and casualties coming in to the path of Akhand Bharat, but still he was an angel for the cause of Akhand Bharat.

As for the death of Porus, he was assassinated by Eudemus, one the Macedonian generals who fought in the Diadochi wars for getting as large a slice as possible of Alexander's conquests in India. He was not, as someone might misunderstand from your post, one of Porus' Macedonian generals.
In 326 BC, Eudemus was appointed by Alexander the Great to the command of the Macedonian troops left in India. This was after the murder of the earlier Alexander-appointed satrap Philip by his own mercenary Indian troops that year

Alexander dispatched letters to India to Eudemus and also to Ambhi telling them to take charge of the district formerly under Philip, until Alexander could send a satrap to govern the district. This was what was done. Porus ruled the territories given to him by Alexander plus his own kingdom.

Alexander died in 323 BC, Once this happened, Eudemus got a free hand. He had Porus assassinated so as to seize his territories, and his elephants, which he wanted to use for his struggle against the other Diadochi generals, especially Antigones. However, he was murdered by Antigones. So the assassination of Porus was a product of the internecine fighting among the Macedonian generals, nothing else. It had nothing to do with Chanakya.

Again, Laghu Paurava ( laghu meaning 'small') was the illegitimate brother of Porus. He rebelled against Porus and later fled to Magadha. He was part of the C&C coalition against Dhananand, but he wanted half of the Magadha empire and an even larger part of the treasury. So he incited the other coalition partners to demand a partition of Magadha and its riches immediately. To do this would have fragmented Magadha, reduced the campaign against Dhananand to a looting exercise, and destroyed any chances of forming an Akhanda Bharat. So Chanakya, who was never squeamish about such things. had Laghu Paurava killed, and matters settled down.

The upshot of all this was that the Mauryan empire eventually united almost the whole of the subcontinent and a large part of modern Afghanistan, and it was well ruled, for the great benefit of its citizens, till it collapsed 47 years after the death of Ashoka.

Shyamala Cowsik



Edited by sashashyam - 7 years ago
sashashyam thumbnail
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Posted: 7 years ago
#20
Yes, my dear, I did. I am just coming to that part in my online viewing, which was interrupted by a slew of visitors staying with us. I shall resume it next week, once the last batch has left!

I am glad my post interested you. See, there is no point judging Chanakya , or even Chandragupta, outside the framework of the times and the situations they lived and worked in. The only thing that mattered was that the end result was not just good, it was very good for the millions of citizens of the Mauryan empire.

OK,they are calling me in. Bye for now.

Shyamala Aunty

Originally posted by: inlieu

Aunty, thanks for the interesting background on Chanakya and Chandragupta.

Did you know that Rohit played Bhadrasaal in the Chandragupta Maurya show on Imagine TV a few years ago? 😉

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