Thank god Onir isn't like arjun - Page 7

Originally posted by: sashashyam

I have edited my post to take into account the point about responsibility, and you might like to take a look at it (below) if you have the time and the inclination. Not that I think that will make any difference to you, since your mind is made up, and I never argue with anyone one whose mind is made up. It is a waste of time and effort, and then again, everyone of us has a right to his or her views. That of course includes me.

I was a bit intrigued by the "selfishness of not turning into a sheep", which I presume means that to be unselfish in love, one has necessarily to turn into a sheep.Well, my poor Arjun fits that definition to a T.

Except that he does not seem to be at all happy with his sacrifice on behalf of Purvi, as you would have expected him to be. He says as much to her when he corners her near his car in a past episode, when he asks her what HE has got out of it, whereas both she and Ovi have got what they wanted. He was then very far from enjoying his sacrifice, he was angry and frustrated. He must now be even more so, which is why he was glaring reproachfully at Purvi at that puja.

The ancient Greeks would sacrifice white bulls to Zeus, king of the gods,but the bull had to go willingly to the sacrifice. Arjun did not go willingly. On that hilltop, he was emotionally blackmailed and coshed into submission. If he had agreed willingly, no amount of tantrums from Ovi would have riled him now. In fact it would have made his sacrifice all the greater, and should have made him happy, not resentful and frustrated. But it clearly does not, and that gives me hope that the old Arjun can be resurrected.

I know that you will not see any of the above as I do, but never mind. The cardinal mantra in this forum is agree to disagree, and we should do just that, and call it quits. At least I intend to do so.

Shyamala B.Cowsik

Originally posted by: AquaNymph

well when u start a work umpteen obstacles will come. But that doesnt mean that u give up.Onir, he knew right from the start how Ovi is. Then why did he start her treatment in first sense?And why did he leave half the treatment? We have seen Manav, Archana, Arjun and even Purvi convincing Ovi about Onir, but did Onir himself talk to her and assure her about him? Did he himself tell her about her complications? Instead he was complaining to Arjun.

Tackling and Tolerating people is an art and requires a great heart. That is what Arjun has not Onir. Onir is a good guy, i agree. But he is good only to the people who are good to him. If anyone begs to differ from him he reacts.

If i were in Onir's place, i would take this as a challenge and never leave a work incomplete and i'll definitely not give up so soon and run away.

@bold:As i always say, love doesnt have a definitions. What you have mentioned is practicality not love. True love is selfless. And your definition has selfishness of not turning into a sheep.

When i say selfless i dont mean Purvi is selfless. Selfless as long as it has just giving and not hurting a single other person. And only Arjun fits this fact (which is the actual definition of love in the holy bible) Arjun agreed to Purvi becasue that would hurt only him not any other person. If purvi's stupid demands are to hurt someother person then he would have never agreed. And that is definitely not idiocy or stupidity or wimp-ish.

Originally posted by: koolsadhu1000

I agree with u shyamala .

I beg to differ that Arjun agreed to Purvi bcoz he knew only he would be hurt and no one else . He knew he would never be able to love any other woman besides Purvi .Even if the other woman ...in this case Ovi , had confidence that she would win his love , he knew that he could not bring himself to love and that he would never be able to do justice to the marraige ivn the real sense . Yet he agreed to go along with it and as a result his wife is an embittered alcoholic today and even his baby will be hurt by being born in unhappy surroundings , god forbid physical defects . Ovi is not just an alcoholic coz she was an alcohol loving girl . The marraige was as much his mistake as Purvi and Ovi's .Many people besides Arjun will be hurt bcoz of this super foolish decision . Even Onir .

Originally posted by: AquaNymph

@purple:

well you have taken the literal meaning out of it. I didnt say that if u love one should turn into a sheep, but if one turns into a sheep what's so wrong and crime in that as long as he is not hurting any other person?

@blue

And dear, no one enjoys sacrifice or makes sacrifice to enjoy. Enjoy is the most absurd term that can be used. Sacrifices are not made to enjoy or show mahaanta, they are made not to make matters worse or to correct something and if made not to regret.

And is arjun looking at purvi a crime?? is it a sin?? First people had problem with him thinking of her, now he should not look at her also? Purvi doesnt have Mr. India watch nor does Manav live in a huge palace where they both cant come face to face. Infact if ovi isnt a psycho then arjun and purvi should be in talking terms atleast as a family.

And whereas a past episode s concerned where arjun confronted purvi near car, then if you have watched that scene properly, then purvi is avoiding arjun and treating as if it's some sin for then to be in one frame and arjun wanted just friendship from purvi as he didnt want their meetings to be treating as some criminal offence like how purvi was making a huge fuss out of it.

@red:

Arjun was resentful, he was frustrated but not because he made a sacrifice or he wasnt able to forget purvi or he couldnt love ovi, he was shown frustrated because his child was at risk, that's it. He was frustrated because his pregnant wife drinks.

Did we ever see him regreeting why did i marry ovi? and why i didnt marry purvi? or why did i agree to purvi? No na.

Well i thin i have seen old arjun long back when he scolded ovi left and right when he causght her drinking and threatened her to tell Manav and archana if she doesnt let her dangerous habits go.

Final word, when we are in a public forum then there are agreements and disagreements. Discussions happen only when there are people who disagree to our views. There is nothing personal. And there is no need of peace calling, this is a discussion not war isnt it?

And it's not like people have set minds and those can never change. Minds need to change only if they are wrong not because they are different. And trust me, if we have valid reasons people do change their opinions too. There shouldnt be any disappointments or insecurities just because opinions are different.

Originally posted by: Sakhile

Shyamala, I agree with almost everything that you say. We all have a right to our opinions, the programme unfolding will show whose thinking coincides with those of the CVs. So Onir has decided to go to Mumbai into the fire. Let's hope that he remains the strong principled character that we have come to like. Maybe he will be a role model for Arjun to emulate since the other two men (DK and Manav) in Arjun's life have failed to show him the right way. I'm looking forward to seeing the unfolding of the drama with Onir in the mix.

Originally posted by: sashashyam

My dear Sakhile,

Thanks a ton for the moral support! I needed it, for I was almost drowned in this tidal wave of Arjunphiles, who want to make a plaster saint of him, complete with a halo, while he is really is a confused, tired, overwrought, unhappy boy, who probably needs nothing so much now as his mother.

What they do not realise is that there have been very few in this forum who have defended Arjun as articulately and forcefully as I have, including when he was in the doghouse after his engagement to Ovi. And then, I do not understand the need to run Onir down just because Arjun has let himself get stuck in a right royal mess.

I agree completely with you as to Onir being the most rational, compassionate and principled person around at present, and his bewilderment at the depth of his emotional dependence on his Mishti was convincing and appealing/

In the ultimate analysis, what does all this matter when the characters and such storyline as there is can go to the dogs any time at the whim of the CVs? I think my Mars option - for shipping the whole PR cast and crew to the Red Planet in the event of the anticipated leap this summer to around 2050 - is probably the best idea!

Shyamala

Originally posted by: Sakhile

Shyamala, I loved Arjun too. He is the reason I began watching PR fulltime and participating in this forum.

The character has unfortuantely not lived up to my expectations for him and I have repeatedly screamed for him to get a backbone. Now that I have a character like Onir that seems to have one, I'm in Onir's corner.

Arjun will have to become stronger for me and be able to stand up for himself before I can respect him again. He is sorely in need of guidance. His mother would have been ideal. We often see him saying I need my mother when ever things get too difficult.

Maybe they should intorduce a character that can play the guiding role in his life. All the other characters have guides: Archana has Sulochana, Purvi has Archana and Sulochana, Ovi, Teju and Sachin had Manav and Savita and now they also have Archana.

Arjun alone does not have a guide. He doesn't even have a good friend in whom he can confide and get advice from. If this was an english programme he would hav e had a psychiatrist whom he consults regularly. As a businessman he should have a personal coach to guide him. It's time they introduced someone like that to guide the Arjun character out of this quagmire.

Originally posted by: sashashyam

My dear Sakhile,

Thanks a ton for the moral support! I needed it, for I was almost drowned in this tidal wave of Arjunphiles, who want to make a plaster saint of him, complete with a halo, while he is really is a confused, tired, overwrought, unhappy boy, who probably needs nothing so much now as his mother.

What they do not realise is that there have been very few in this forum who have defended Arjun as articulately and forcefully as I have, including when he was in the doghouse after his engagement to Ovi. And then, I do not understand the need to run Onir down just because Arjun has let himself get stuck in a right royal mess.

I agree completely with you as to Onir being the most rational, compassionate and principled person around at present, and his bewilderment at the depth of his emotional dependence on his Mishti was convincing and appealing/

In the ultimate analysis, what does all this matter when the characters and such storyline as there is can go to the dogs any time at the whim of the CVs? I think my Mars option - for shipping the whole PR cast and crew to the Red Planet in the event of the anticipated leap this summer to around 2050 - is probably the best idea!

Shyamala

Originally posted by: sashashyam

Oh, dear, this is becoming like opera singers giving repeated 'last' performances, but just 2 points before I really quit. And no, I am the last person to have "any disappointments or insecurities just because opinions are different.". I was a professional diplomat all my working life and have spent a lot of time trying to convince people with very different viewpoints of mine, but for that very reason, I also know when to give up!

My point was that when our stands are so very different, what is the sense in my wasting my time and yours arguing in circles? I started out giving my viewpoint on Onir - with which I am sure you are not going to agree, which is your right in a free forum. Now we seem to have drifted into a similar exercise wrt Arjun. So what is the use of going on and on about these matters? There is no question of minds needing to change if they are 'wrong', and to stay put it they are 'right'. I believe that my viewpoint is justified and you that yours is, and where are we going to meet and agree? So it is obviously sensible to call it quits; that is commonsense, not a matter of peace or war.

1. Did we ever see him regreeting why did i marry ovi? and why i didnt marry purvi? or why did i agree to purvi?

Of course he does. What he tells her near the car is precisely that: he says you have stuck me in this awful situation, I cannot forget you and I am acutely miserable. You both have got what you wanted, but what have I got? If this is not regretting his marriage, I do not know what is.At that point of time, which was before the latest leap, Ovi was not drinking and there was no baby in the offing either. He repeats to Purvi that he cannot forget her again and again later, including at the anniversary party.

I think it is entirely to be expected that he resents what Purvi has done to him; it would be strange if he did not. I do not at all believe that Arjun made any 'sacrifice' and definitely not 'willingly'. I do not know whether Janhvi and some others are right in assessing that it was a dare, and that he never really believed that Purvi would be able to go thru with it, but a willing sacrifice it was not. He did not say - Well, if it is for the good of your aai, of course I will do it for you, did he ? He should of course have never done it, but that is neither here nor there.

2. arjun wanted just friendship from purvi as he didnt want their meetings to be treating as some criminal offence like how purvi was making a huge fuss out of it.

When you want to put a love as deep as that of Arjun and Purvi behind you, you make a clean break of it. You cannot keep meeting your ex-lover and being 'friends' with him or her. This is all the more when the two of them are in the same family and are thrown constantly into each other's company. Even without this, would any new relationship work if the two ex-lovers are meeting every now and then? Even if it just a new girlfriend and not a wife. The new girlfriend will never believe that her boyfriend is now just 'friends' with his ex. Then you also have Purvi telling Archana that she cannot bear to see Arjun with another woman.

After what Purvi made Arjun do, the only way for him to heal was to make a clean break of it. Seeing her repeatedly will not help, it will only increase the pain. That is what she says before she leaves for Kolkatta, and she was right.I am not an admirer of Purvi's current avatar, but in this, she is absolutely correct.

I agree that if Ovi had been more sensible and had worked hard at their relationship, or had had someone to advise her properly, it would have been easier for Arjun. But still, renewed contacts with Purvi would have brought it all back. It is not easy to get over something like that.

Lastly, and this is really lastly, Arjun is not a paragon with a halo round his head; he is just a character from a stupid serial, who was immensely charming, but who can change at the whim of the CVs. It was the same with, say, Archana and Manav. I am myself constantly astonished at the amount of time I, and all of us here, spend lamenting the folly of the CVs and yet we do not adopt the simplest remedy: stop watching PR, or at least stop writing about the follies of these inconsistent and often foolish characters.

As for the actors, I do not think they care a hoot what happens to Arjun or Purvi or Ovi, as we do. For them it is just their bread and butter, and they must be having a good laugh if they ever have the time to read these serious discussions in the forum. Which is by far the best approach, come to think of it, and I am already laughing at myself.

And we still haven't come to the great unsolved question of Whose Baby ? When that comes out, the arguments and counter-arguments are going to raise the roof. I do hope that by then I shall have attained the desired level of detachment to keep out of the fray, as indeed I did for over 2 months before looking in recently and getting bogged down all over again. I shall begin practising for that right now!

Then again, if we have another Great Leap to 2050 by the summer, all this will become instantly redundant.

Shyamala B.Cowsik

Originally posted by: sashashyam

Sakhile, it is uncanny, but @blue is a more detailed version of comments that I have made at least 3 times in my posts in the old days.

This was when Arjun was unable to understand his feelings for Purvi, and was later bewildered and desperately unhappy when she misunderstood that kiss on her forehead and cut him off, saying, of all the cruel things, that she did not feel safe being in the same room with him any more. His mother did visit him once in a dream, and Rithvik's take on that scene was a tour de force.

But then she never came back, and his problem is that he not only has no older person to guide him, but no male (or even female) friend either, who would understand him completely and help him with advice as to what next to do. Every Hindi film hero or heroine has such a friend and the sakha/sakhi concept is also a standard part of our classical literature.

Even in PR, Onir is shown having a supportive friend who helps him understand himself. So why have the CVs left only Rithwik with no such moral and practical support system?

Shyamala