PR this week: Arjun turning negative? NO!! - Page 3

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Originally posted by: bee5

Punarvivah,
Completely agree with you. This is what I think too, but I wouldn't have done such a good job as you, with this one and the next post of yours with much explanation.
It feels glad to read something that it is in your head and of hundreds of posts find one that exactly says it out. Thank You.

Shyamala,
Arjun is basically a good person with an innate niceness in him. This is his main weakness, in a way, which both the girls are and have exploited. this was the main reason that during the post-ovi-engagement period, he could not just blurt it out to Ovi, as she was having issues and he did not want to hurt her. That didn't go too well, but his intentions are always meant well, and never to hurt anyone.
Even now, he is trying to live with Ovi, yes, because of Purvi, but also being Ovi's friend, he is also trying not to hurt her. We cannot discount that and say that he is doing it all because of Purvi. He values Ovi as a friend and trying to respect her for that and live amicably at least.

So, how can we call such a person negative? Absolutely NOT...

Jyothi darling,

That is why I said that this post of mine was a cri de coeur, a cry from the heart. It is not enough for our poor boy to be good, he also has to have at least a bit of the survival instinct. If he had had that, he would have done what my mother was prescribing and told Purvi to get lost, she would have come around eventually, and Ovi would be no worse off than she already was.

His one horrendous mistake in letting Purvi have her own way has doomed him (I have never cared about whether it doomed her - I am not at all sure of that, and in any case she did it deliberately). He is rebelling now, far too late, and whichever way he gets out of this mess, he will break more eggs.

I also agree that he is nice to Ovi partly because of their old friendship, but still, as the flashback of Purvi preaching at him when he is hugging Ovi shows, it is 80% because of Purvi.

And no, I have to repeat one last time, it is not orange juice, which would have at least nourished him. It is some transparent orange liquid like Tang - all colour and probably zero nutrition. No wonder it is addling his brains, as also that ghastly green louki ka halwa.

Of course he is still our boy, for all that I call him a changeling; if he wasn't, I would not be lamenting like this, but would have consigned him to the nearest dustbin without a second thought! That is my problem, and yours, and Archana's too, I am sure.

As for Arjun turning negative, if he would do a Heathcliff ( for those who have not read the book, the vengeful anti-hero in Wuthering Heights, best played on screen by Laurence Olivier) on us, I would not mind it at all. He would be far more interesting that as he is now, begging and pleading with Purvi and making a cake of himself, that is for sure.

As for the title of that thread, which triggered this entirely redundant post of mine (WHEN will I learn to keep quiet?), I think that was just to attract attention, and was not serious.

Loved that crack of yours about the Balaji interns, except I do not think any Gen Y types would dish out such tripe. I think it is the Revenge of the Last (or Lost, take your choice!)Generation. And if they do, God save the next generation of the TV audience from them!

Warm regards, and have a lot of fun during Deepavali. Love to Kirthi.

Shyamala

Originally posted by: jdronamraju

Dear Shyamala,

All the supply of Orange Juice and Lauki Halwas from both ladies have messed up our boy's brains.. !! He is lost in the maze of demands from both the ladies. He needs a heavy dose from us to wake him up !! LOL !! Just kidding.. why get serious any more...

All said and done, I am still with the boy !! He maybe acting like an idiot by listening to Purvi, but he is still our idiot !! He has become the target for all bashing and attacks day in and day out, from one and all, for things he has done and not done, and for those not even shown yet.. Yet, the evil in PR are spared and defended.. 😊

As far as Arjun turning negative, Hah .. that is a joke to me..

PR is getting ridiculous by the day. What's with doing Shraadh to living people - one every day... Mother doing it to daughters, and sons asking parents to do it... The writers are going nuts.. what are they ON these days, I wonder.. Looking at the current tracks they are coming up with, is PR an experimental ground for their interns??

Take Care...

Jyothi

Jyothi darling,

That is why I said that this post of mine was a cri de coeur, a cry from the heart. It is not enough for our poor boy to be good, he also has to have at least a bit of the survival instinct. If he had had that, he would have done what my mother was prescribing and told Purvi to get lost, she would have come around eventually, and Ovi would be no worse off than she already was.

His one horrendous mistake in letting Purvi have her own way has doomed him (I have never cared about whether it doomed her - I am not at all sure of that, and in any case she did it deliberately). He is rebelling now, far too late, and whichever way he gets out of this mess, he will break more eggs.

I also agree that he is nice to Ovi partly because of their old friendship, but still, as the flashback of Purvi preaching at him when he is hugging Ovi shows, it is 80% because of Purvi.

And no, I have to repeat one last time, it is not orange juice, which would have at least nourished him. It is some transparent orange liquid like Tang - all colour and probably zero nutrition. No wonder it is addling his brains, as also that ghastly green louki ka halwa.

Of course he is still our boy, for all that I call him a changeling; if he wasn't, I would not be lamenting like this, but would have consigned him to the nearest dustbin without a second thought! That is my problem, and yours, and Archana's too, I am sure.

As for Arjun turning negative, if he would do a Heathcliff ( for those who have not read the book, the vengeful anti-hero in Wuthering Heights, best played on screen by Laurence Olivier) on us, I would not mind it at all. He would be far more interesting that as he is now, begging and pleading with Purvi and making a cake of himself, that is for sure.

As for the title of that thread, which triggered this entirely redundant post of mine (WHEN will I learn to keep quiet?), I think that was just to attract attention, and was not serious.

Loved that crack of yours about the Balaji interns, except I do not think any Gen Y types would dish out such tripe. I think it is the Revenge of the Last (or Lost, take your choice!)Generation. And if it is really the youngsters who do this, God save the next generation of the TV audience from them!

Warm regards, and have a lot of fun during Deepavali. Love to Kirthi.

Shyamala

Originally posted by: jdronamraju

Dear Shyamala,

All the supply of Orange Juice and Lauki Halwas from both ladies have messed up our boy's brains.. !! He is lost in the maze of demands from both the ladies. He needs a heavy dose from us to wake him up !! LOL !! Just kidding.. why get serious any more...

All said and done, I am still with the boy !! He maybe acting like an idiot by listening to Purvi, but he is still our idiot !! He has become the target for all bashing and attacks day in and day out, from one and all, for things he has done and not done, and for those not even shown yet.. Yet, the evil in PR are spared and defended.. 😊

As far as Arjun turning negative, Hah .. that is a joke to me..

PR is getting ridiculous by the day. What's with doing Shraadh to living people - one every day... Mother doing it to daughters, and sons asking parents to do it... The writers are going nuts.. what are they ON these days, I wonder.. Looking at the current tracks they are coming up with, is PR an experimental ground for their interns??

Take Care...

Jyothi

My dear bee,

That is what I said above, that he is basically a very decent young man, which is why I stuck with him thru thick and thin, and defended him against every possible charge, from two-timing to being a spineless jellyfish. Not many others in the forum did so then; as I am sure you remember, the ranks of his defenders in those months was decidedly thin! Now, these ranks seem to expanded a lot, to my considerable surprise. Perhaps it is because it is now rather difficult to defend the old favourite, Purvi, and as her bakra, Arjun has to be pitied and commiserated with.

However, under certain circumstances, it is not enough to be good, one also has to have at least a bit of the survival instinct and some good old commonsense. If Arjun had had these useful attributes, he would not now be asking Purvi, in helpless rage, whether she was happy after having destroyed three lives for the sake of her own happiness (surely he meant her aai's, but let that pass). He would have saved all those three on his own.

You have noted that "If being a good person he gets to be called foolish or whatever else, so be it.", which is all very well, my dear, except that it is not just he himself who is paying the price for this, but also those like me who have been blindsided and left fuming and acutely distressed by his folly.

Plus, as I told Jyothi, I would not at all mind if he were to turn spectacularly negative; that would be far better than his present avatar. But such complex characters, like Heathcliff, are far beyond the scope of the PR writers.

Warm regards, and take care.

Shyamala

Originally posted by: bee5

Dear Shyamala,
Don't know what the hullabaloo was it in the thread you mentioned, but to simply answer or to add to yours, I would say the same - Arjun hasn't turned negative.

If he had, he wouldn't have tried to stick with this marriage with Ovi and also do what Purvi asked/asks him to do all the time, whether he likes it, or whether it makes him happy or not.

He has always been a good person, did not mean ill of anyone and he is still the same. If being a good person he gets to be called foolish or whatever else, so be it.

Hope you are taking good care of your wrist.
Happy Deepavali to you too.

Originally posted by: sashashyam

My dear bee,

That is what I said above, that he is basically a very decent young man, which is why I stuck with him thru thick and thin, and defended him against every possible charge, from two-timing to being a spineless jellyfish. Not many others in the forum did so then; as I am sure you remember, the ranks of his defenders in those months was decidedly thin! Now, these ranks seem to expanded a lot, to my considerable surprise. Perhaps it is because it is now rather difficult to defend the old favourite, Purvi, and as her bakra, Arjun has to be pitied and commiserated with.

However, under certain circumstances, it is not enough to be good, one also has to have at least a bit of the survival instinct and some good old commonsense. If Arjun had had these useful attributes, he would not now be asking Purvi, in helpless rage, whether she was happy after having destroyed three lives for the sake of her own happiness (surely he meant her aai's, but let that pass). He would have saved all those three on his own.

You have noted that "If being a good person he gets to be called foolish or whatever else, so be it.", which is all very well, my dear, except that it is no just he himself who is paying the price for this, but also those like me who have been blindsided and left fuming and acutely distressed by his folly.

Plus, as I told Jyothi, I would not at all mind if he were to turn spectacularly negative; that would be far better than his present avatar. But such complex characters, like Heathcliff, are far beyond the scope of the PR writers.

Warm regards, and take care.

Shyamala

Dear Priya,

I appreciate your detailed response, and thank you for it. In this post, I shall be (relatively) brief for a change, and I am sure you for one would be grateful!

What you are saying in short is that - leaving aside the 'higher cause' angle that you have now explained away - it is morally acceptable to cut the kind of deal Purvi did since she did it for her mother, but not for Ovi because she did it for herself. Here is where we part company; I think it is wrong in both cases. What Purvi did is like making, not a heart transplant, but a human sacrifice of Arjun to save Archana's family life. I would not do it. Moreover, as I noted in my earlier response,one expected more from Purvi because she was Arjun's beloved, and she owed Arjun for loving her so deeply - and she let him and us down big time.

I do not know if Ovi loves Arjun more or less than Purvi, and to me, that is not even relevant. This mess is of Purvi's creation, for reasons that, as I have said above, are simply not acceptable to me. As for Archana and Manav being culpable (your points 1-2), Purvi and Arjun are not 6 year olds. They are responsible for their own actions.

The funny thing is that it was NOT Purvi's human sacrifice of Arjun that gave Archana back her parivaar; it was Teju's having unearthed the forged signature of Archana in the 'divorce papers' , leading to the exposure of Savita's duplicity. .Before that,Manav was shown telling DK that Purvi's tyaag would sadly be in vain, as there was still no place for Archana in his family. This has been forgotten by most people, but it is a fact.

Secondly, I do not see how Arjun going around looking like Devdas is going to help. If he wants out, he should move for it on his own, instead of looking, like a weakling, for moral support, which will not be there in any case.

Thirdly, you say that (point 5) "Purvi is accountable to Arjun for making him do the impossible for her when she is clearly unhappy with the proceedings". I am sure you do not mean that if she was NOT unhappy with the consequences, she would not be accountable. She is squarely accountable in either case because of what she has done to Arjun; what she does to herself is her own business, and in any case, for a martyr, the more suffering the better.

Lastly, since one does not agree with anything anyone here does, I see very little point any more in discussing their incomprehensible actions, do you? Which is why I dropped out, and am trying hard to stay out.

I think you are not frustrated because you were never really involved with these characters, which is an enviable position to be in. Unfortunately, I was, and many others were as well, and we are not just frustrated now, we are furious.

All the very best.

Shyamala

Originally posted by: Punarvivah

Hi Shyamala,
Thank you for the eloquent response and generous praise (not sure if well deserved).
As for the 'higher cause' I am sorry I didnt inject enough indications of sarcasm to really show how I felt about it. I disagree hotly with the higher cause being high at all. I do understand where the characters are coming from(I think) though.
You are right, Arjun is neither happy or resigned. That is the biggest problem with the cause. If Arjun was a car, this would be moot. My point is Arjun knows that inherently Purvi gave him up not because she didnt love him but she thought enough of their closeness together to ask him to sacrifice for her. She asked him to give up his happiness for her instead of his life which he was willing to. Arjun agreed to that in principle and is moving with the motions to make that happen. However, it just is not possible in real life. This giving up of happiness unlike that of life is a constant ask. Neither Purvi nor Arjun realized this and that is where it is important that Arjun communicate his misery to everyone. That he is indeed giving up every moment's joy in his life for Purvi.
Purvi is Arjun's and only Arjun's offender. She gave him nothing to live by in return for his sacrifice. Having said that, what can she give him? She can love him from afar but that only makes him more miserable. Truth is, Purvi has nothing to offer Arjun anymore in their current relationship. If she so much as glanced at him, she will be persecuted by everyone.
My point really is not about how much Ovi loves Arjun. She may very well love him more than Purvi. However, Ovi, like Varsha is keeping Arjun around to satisfy her mental equation that she has the company of the man she loves. She has not deciphered yet that in order to get that company she is cutting him off from where he would rather be. This is where Purvi and Ovi differ. Both are making Arjun miserable but Purvi did it for her mother who gave her a life but Ovi is doing it for herself. Both have wronged Arjun but in case of Purvi, Archana has unwittingly been the cause that Arjun was sacrificed for and specifically, Archana's relationship with Manav and their kids.
In a very warped way, this is akin to Purvi undergoing a heart transplant for Ovi so Ovi can then pursuade Manav to be nice to Archana. Of course it is complicated because the heart itself would rather not be transplanted and is holding a grouse against her..sort of like its rejecting the transplantee Ovi which is making her more miserable. This is wrong on so many levels.
1. I think Manav and Archana are wrong fundamentally for making their mistakes so pathetic that other people feel the need to fix them.
2. Manav is solely to blame for letting his daughter hold his relationship with his wife as leverage to blackmail another innocent person.
3. Archana and Manav are to be blamed for not demanding this marriage be annulled on the day of based on the premise it was built.
4. Ovi is culpable of blackmailing Purvi.
5. Purvi is accountable to Arjun for making him do the impossible for her when she is clearly unhappy with the proceedings.

To reiterate, I dont agree with their rationale at all (anybody's), just am not frustrated by it.

My dear bee,

You are spot on about the ON-OFF switch, which is mostly off, or else is like the wonky button on a defective table lamp that switches itself off automatically after a minute - witness his behaviour at the Deshmukhs' after Ovi's outburst, with the mandatory flashback of Purvi's latest sermon to him.

You never took any of this seriously, and that was the wise way to be. I am getting there too, slowly, and with bouts of recidivism, but I am getting there nonetheless.

Shyamala

Originally posted by: bee5

Shyamala Dear, Just for the records - I have been pro-Arjun and in your words "defending" Arjun much before you started writing on this forum.

Coming to Arjun, it is not like he 'forgot his survival instincts and common sense after he met Purvi or after he married Ovi. If he had those ..probably he wouldn't go live in a chawl, work in a garage, walk in rain with nothing to cover himself, find happiness in choto-logon-ki shaadi and above all might not have fallen in love with a middle-class girl like Purvi?

That rage that he showed yday is like an ON-OFF switch the CVs want to use at their convenience . The last time it was ON was the day after the wedding, when he came to Purvi's house and said "You watch what I do now ..." ... I don't take them seriously. It took him 1 whole month to ask that question to Purvi? Ha Ha Ha...

That should tell you not to torture yourself.

No, no, Kalapi my dear, I am not going to let you be so harsh to my poor boy. He is not a two timer and he never was one, and moreover, as I have written to you in the past (with which of course you did not agree!) he was always more sinned against than sinning.

The worst one can accuse him of - and as you must have seen, and not just here, I do that quite liberally! - is terminal folly. For want of a little spine and stubbornness at a crucial moment, he has let Purvi demolish his life, and now he is rebelling against it, to cite bee, like a wonky on-off switch, but with the default setting at off.So, while I have often wanted to plant a solid kick in his backside, it would not be with spiked boots!😉

No, my dear, he is not running after Purvi in that fashion at all; he is no Casanova, and he simply is not made that way. I am sure that there are any number of men like that, but he is not one of them. Remember how properly he behaves with Purvi even when they are alone? He loves her, he does not merely desire her. It is because of this that my mother was lambasting Arjun only for what she saw as his folly in letting Purvi push him into this situation; she did not suspect him of any moral failings. So please do absolve him of this jeeju-saali kind of goings on, there is a good girl!

Arjun's problem is that he simply cannot get Purvi out of his system, and since they are all in the same place and the same family to boot, he does not even have the advantage of having her out of his sight. He thinks, completely wrongly, but still he thinks that he will feel better if she would only talk to him from time to time and let him still be her friend.

But of course that would never work, and not just because people would eye it negatively. The only way to get over a past relationship, especially such a deep love, is to cut it off totally and the person concerned with it, and if possible manage not to meet him or her again.

If you cannot do this, then work to see how you can go back to him or her. Whence the 2 options that I have outlined for Arjun. Of course the CVs will not choose either, that is for sure!

I agree with you about the folly of equating sacrifice and love. I am of the opinion that most sacrifices are counter-productive, and do nothing much more than boosting the ego of the sacrificer. The sacrifice (in this instance, Arjun) is normally never consulted.

You know, my dear,the ancient Greeks used to sacrifice white bulls to Zeus, the King of the Gods (the Roman equivalent being Jupiter), but the bull had to go willingly to the sacrifice, otherwise Zeus would not accept it. I do not know how they managed it in practice, perhaps they drugged the bulls. Anyhow, the PR CVs obviously have no time for such niceties!

No, I have not seen those episodes of DKDM online; my mother does not like looking at things on a laptop, she wants the 50 inch TV screen, and I do not know how to persuade her. But yesterday, they showed a glimpse of Lord Shiva in his full, dazzling wedding regalia, and she was delighted, as I was too, so maybe she will come around soon!

Here is wishing you all, once again, a very happy, safe (though this is really more for India, as the setting off of firecrackers is heavily regulated in the US) and fun-filled Deepavali next week.

Shyamala

Originally posted by: Kalapi

Shyamala dearest,

I am not even sure how to tell this anymore, but will try. Say, in a real world, a guy married to a sister is eyeing his SIL, what does society think of that guy's character? I ask my mother, and she goes 'Chee cheee'. So, I am in agreement you dear mom (my warm regards again to her) and her extremely soft and well spoken words ... I am, of course, very harsh. As for me, the boots aren't enough anymore...he needs a...

Now, my take Arjun's case. Loved one sister and got married to another. This character is a 20+yr successful businessman from Canada (and in Canada sex education starts in Grade 4). He took, I am assuming many decisions in his life, but as soon as Purvi came into his life, he starts taking all wrong decisions. Is that what love should do? No, love should empower both.

He marries Ovi on his own accord and then start eyeing Purvi, his SIL again. Confused, how? What is the confusion? Is he a 5 yr old? No, a MBA from a reputed institution I assume, with a track record of being a successful businessman. But, he is confused and so runs after Purvi after marriage? Confused, yeah, right? 21^st century confusion, I am assuming.

No dear, he isn't confused. He is 2 timing both the girls again as he has done before. Please don't say, he is unsure of the law (being the maalik of a few companies and more, that doesn't suit his characterization anymore) and his right to divorce, or with his money he can't try and get one. But, no, he runs after Purvi, besides giving mix signals to Ovi and defending himself of his trustworthiness when faced with Ovi's question. What does he do, he just defend some more...guilty yes, confused really? If his love for Purvi has made him so, is this true love? Not in my dictionary.

Hmm...not a negative character, but that of a confused soul? No, dear, I can't accept this explanation. Sure, it exempt him of his wrongdoings towards both girls, but, it is a conscious choice he is making and so it turns him negative in my eyes. Maybe, he doesn't want to decide one way or the other. You know there are plenty of men like that too. There is a reason, why we say, "Saali adi-ghar bali". And sadly, these aren't rare events either...it happens in reality...who says PR doesn't show reality, they sure do...

No society accepts a Jeeju/saali relationship and this, if it happens, will come with a price. And, if this is how Arjun plans to stay, the price will be more for Purvi to pay.

As for, to sacrifice is to love - Sorry, don't agree with that concept either. To love is to either get married or love the other person from afar without disturbing his/her kamana (desire). If there are oppositions in a love affair, one needs to work on getting the consent and blessing of elders in the family. Anything other than marriage and done under the pretext of love or whatever, is considered illegitimate. What Purvi and Arjun did were wrong for themselves and other too (I am not saying Ovi isn't wrong, but her mistake in my eyes are different and is truly getting a karmic punishment for her stupidity). The wrong was carried on and fulfilled by Purvi and Arjun accepted it and now is carrying on another farce and falsely leading on Ovi. You might not agree with me, if I say, Ovi is being the nave one here and is being lead on both by Arjun and Purvi (and Archana too with her lecturing on trust), but then perhaps, that is her Karmic punishment (her blindly trusting Arjun and Archana)...such, a karmic punishment for sheer stupidity..

Btw, I loved your humor in the PS, economical shaardha and well on Purvi (apt 😉)

PS: I have been meaning to ask you for awhile now, did you watch the episodes on Sati's immolation? If not, do watch them with your dear Mom, the episodes aired in May...I think you will love them, although our Shiv aren't a good dancer😃

Shyamala..Absolutely loved ur response above.. PAP reigns still, albeit, reluctantly at a low key.. 😊

I agree, that lauki halwa..looks horrendous.. what is that yuckky green color, no ghee and cashews 😊.. my mother makes the best..it waters your mouth just looking at it.. this one looked eeww.!! PR needs some cooking classes too.. he he..