~| Whatever you want to argue about |~ - Page 86

I can still tolerate Devdutt Patnaik. Romila Thapar I just cant.

Devdutt is an opportunist, who lies, and tries to cover up his lack of knowledge and understanding with abuse, as he is a sore loser.

However he still treats the epics and puranas with respect, even if it is not reverence

Romila Thapar on the other hand is everything that Devdutt is but at the same time is very disrespectful of our scriptures.

Her life's work is insulting hinduism.

People.dont have to believe in magic and miracles or divinity, dont have to consider these as true accounts of history either.

Yet they are the foundation of a belief system that is centuries old and still strong and hence deserving of respect. Reverence is a matter of choice, so I let that be.

This woman is horrid. And I have absolutely no problem in saying that.

But that is not worst part. Worst part is she was empanelled India historian for JNU.

If for nothing else, atleast for not reselecting her, I vote Modi.

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

Her tactic is very similar to those of any unscrupulous politician. Insert some truth into a largely fact-free assertion so no one will be able to completely dismiss it. Those readers with little knowledge and little patience to scrutinize each word then buy the whole thing, lock, stock, and barrel.

J

Pattnaik does the same.

Good observation. That's exactly how it is.

She deliberately tries to demean the Sanatani ancestory of India, to make it sound like everything has non Hindu ancestory.

I had read her book which stated that neither Vedas nor Purans/Upnishads detail out on the war, on which this epic is based upon. Indirectly stating that this war never occurred, but it's Fanfic on some other war. (Even if it is a fanfiction, agree that it's a fanfic on Mahabharata war)

At another place she gave reference to some Ramayana version, through which she proved that Ram n Seeta were siblings

Leftist ideology is good, but they start objecting to the very foundation belief of the system that's what is irritating

Originally posted by: Chiillii

I can still tolerate Devdutt Patnaik. Romila Thapar I just cant.

Devdutt is an opportunist, who lies, and tries to cover up his lack of knowledge and understanding with abuse, as he is a sore loser.

However he still treats the epics and puranas with respect, even if it is not reverence

Romila Thapar on the other hand is everything that Devdutt is but at the same time is very disrespectful of our scriptures.

Her life's work is insulting hinduism.

People.dont have to believe in magic and miracles or divinity, dont have to consider these as true accounts of history either.

Yet they are the foundation of a belief system that is centuries old and still strong and hence deserving of respect. Reverence is a matter of choice, so I let that be.

This woman is horrid. And I have absolutely no problem in saying that.

But that is not worst part. Worst part is she was empanelled India historian for JNU.

If for nothing else, atleast for not reselecting her, I vote Modi.

I don't like Patnaik either, have read Jaya and Seeta's sister and in both he has tried to demean the characters on mostly less famous folklores, be it Seeta or be it Draupadi.

Yes he does act like he respects the culture but just"acts" as such

About this lady, the lesser said the better. She wants to prove that indigenous people here (Sanatanis I mean) were filled with superstitions, casteism, female subordination and cruelty.

Whatever good this region had was because of borrowing from some later religion

Buddhism has its roots in India, Buddha couldn't have realised the teachings he gave had his foundation not been on those lines. But obviously she will find it hard to believe it

About Modi, yes I agree not reselecting her was a good decision, but we expect more, somehow our history book is filled with only Muslim conquests, the Marathas, the Sikhs etc. and their victories have been completely sidelined.

No one knows how big a king Krishnadev Rai was (hopefully noone makes him to another Avtar of Krishna). Even Aurangzeb had a comparatively smaller land as compared to him.

These underwhelming the Hindu contributions should be changed in history books, else I doubt Modi will be back the next time (as it Covid, mass migration etc. has shaken the confidence people had on him, and now ChinoPak+Nepal enimity to India is causing him severely)

Moee I think about it, more I feel Ekanamsa was Panchali. HV says Vasudeva asked for her to be brought up just like a boy. There is only one woman in MBh/HV I've seen in that generation who behaved semi like a man. Not that I mean only men can do what she did, but that women generally was told not to.

The only thing is Dhrishtadyumna... how does he fit into the story?

And the fire birth?

Plus, there is the mention of 4 boys Krishna later send to Gandusha for adoption. One of whom was called Panchala.

Thoughts?

Ekanamsa was Nand Baba's daughter right?

I find no reason why she would be put up for adoption. Even if she was raised as a man. Dhristhdhyum doesn't fit into the narrative either as you yourself said.

If this is Itihas and not fiction, then not necessarily every character need to actually have a role to play

But the four boys thing does raise suspicion. What exactly were those into and who were they

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

Ekanamsa was Nand Baba's daughter right?

I find no reason why she would be put up for adoption. Even if she was raised as a man. Dhristhdhyum doesn't fit into the narrative either as you yourself said.

If this is Itihas and not fiction, then not necessarily every character need to actually have a role to play

But the four boys thing does raise suspicion. What exactly were those into and who were they

Ekanamsa was said to be Nidra who did what Vishnu wanted done.

Plus, she was also called Angirasa's daughter in MBh.

Her name was Kuhu, meaning new moon.

I think she was Panchali.

As for why she was adopted... there was no mention of Nanda or Yashoda after Krishna left them. I'm guessing they died in a raid or some such.

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

Ekanamsa was said to be Nidra who did what Vishnu wanted done.

Plus, she was also called Angirasa's daughter in MBh.

Her name was Kuhu, meaning new moon.

I think she was Panchali.

As for why she was adopted... there was no mention of Nanda or Yashoda after Krishna left them. I'm guessing they died in a raid or some such.

@Bold not sure if it was some research or just random fluke, but in DD Kisan Draupadi show, Kuhu is the name of the maid of Krishnaa.

If Nand and Yashoda died, then ideally Krishna, Balram should have taken the responsibility, its ok if they arranged for her adoption, but then why to Panchal Raj? Since when was Panchal a friend state to Yadavs? Surely not during the time they were in Mathura.

Plus Drupad wanted to adopt a boy, why would he agree for a girl, unless she had a boy, though that could be the deal, like I would get you a person to kill Drona and you adopt Ekanamsa too, but why taken so much pain?

This wouldn't have much impact on Kuru Panchal relation anyway, why would Panchal be so much concerned for a random adopted girl only as a bye product to the boy they needed.

Your points does raise suspicion, but somehow things don't add up at least to me.

Don't know why, but I actually feel Draupadi was somehow related to Panchal family by blood

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

@Bold not sure if it was some research or just random fluke, but in DD Kisan Draupadi show, Kuhu is the name of the made of Krishnaa.

If Nand and Yashoda died, then ideally Krishna, Balram should have taken the responsibility, its ok if they arranged for her adoption, but then why to Panchal Raj? Since when was Panchal a friend state to Yadavs? Surely not during the time they were in Mathura.

Plus Drupad wanted to adopt a boy, why would he agree for a girl, unless she had a boy, though that could be the deal, like I would get you a person to kill Drona and you adopt Ekanamsa too, but why taken so much pain?

This wouldn't have much impact on Kuru Panchal relation anyway, why would Panchal be so much concerned for a random adopted girl only as a bye product to the boy they needed.

Your points does raise suspicion, but somehow things don't add up at least to me.

Don't know why, but I actually feel Draupadi was somehow related to Panchal family by blood

Pandu lists types of offsprings. Someone already related by blood wouldn't need to be adopted.

There was definitely adoption ceremony.

Harivamsa mentions 4 boys taken to Gandusha by Krishna, one of whom was Panchala.

I'm guessing Nanda and Yashoda had other children, and after their deaths, Krishna made sure the kids found homes.

As for Panchal... Asita, Devala, Dhaumya, Narada family had huge connection to Panchal. Drupada was going around asking rishis for boys to adopt.

PANCHAL LINEAGE

http://www.mahabharata-resources.org/harivamsa/hv_1_20.html

In the lineage of puru kings bR^ihat-kShatra... his son is suhotra, whose son is hasti... the city

of hastina-pura is built by this king hasti...

King hasti begot three sons, namely aja-mIDha… king aja-mIDha begot a son named bR^ihad￾iShu… bR^ihat-dhanu is the son of bR^ihay-iShu...

Then the line of princes is: bR^ihay-iShu satya-jit vishva-jit sena-jit; then sena-jit begot four sons,

namely: one of who was ruchira

Then the line of princes from ruchira forward is: ruchira pR^ithu-sena pAra nIpa...

And this nIpa begot hundred sons. From among those hundred sons of nIpa, the eldest one being

the enricher of that dynasty is the king of kAmpilya kingdom, who is a true battler true to his

name, samara - be at daggers drawn...

King samara has three highly righteous sons, one called para who begot a son called pR^ithu, who

begot a prince called sukR^ita; then that sukR^ita begot a prince

called vibhrAja; later vibhrAja begot aNuhu. This aNuhu is the coeval of my (Bheeshma’s)

grandfather pratIpa...."

Then brahmadatta, the sagely king and the honourable soul of yoga is the son of king aNuhu

Brahmadatta's son is viShvaksena...

viShvaksena's son is daNDasena whose son is bhallATa. But, the son of bhallATa became

ignominious... oh, yudhiShThira... he became the king of nIpa lineage, i.e., the king of kAmpilya,

only for the holocaust of nIpa descendants - because he could not resist an invading king

called ugra-Ayudha... because of the son of bhallATa, this ugra-Ayudha has annihilated all

the nIpa descendants..

At that time my father king shantanu breathed his last, and I was undertaking pitR^i-medha,

postfunerary rites, with utmost sincerity like dietaries and getting forty winks on bare ground etc... at

such a time this ugra-Ayudha sent a messenger to me when I am surrounded by my ministers, who

conveyed a worst message to me...

Coming into my audience, oh, king dharmaja, that messenger of ugra-Ayudha parroted these words

of his sender: "oh, bhIShma, yield your glorious stepmother, a jewel among women, as my

makeshift-wife...

At that time, vicitravIrya was just a boy and wholly dependant on me...

When bhIShma arrived, there occurred a brute war, which bhIShma terms as unmatta vat

yuddhaM - a maniacal war, because divine power of discus has become non-functional.

A while later king pR^iShata came back to throne of kAmpilya, viz. south pAnchAla, as he had to

back away from his kingdom when his grandfather and the lord of nIpa-s is dead at the hand

of ugra-Ayudha, while that ugra-Ayudha, the then ruling king of pAnchAla, is dead at my hand...

This king pR^iShata, the father of king drupada, ruled both south pAnchAla with capital kAmpilya,

as well as the north pAnchAla with capital Ahi-chChatraM, of course, with the carte blanche given

by me.

INTERSECTION OF NARADA AND PANCHAL LINEAGES AS WELL AS KURU

LINEAGE

https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m01/m01101.htm

Let me tell you that I have even rejected the solicitations of that best of Brahmarshis--the celestial

sage Asita--who, too, had often asked for Satyavati's hand in marriage.

http://mahabharata-resources.org/harivamsa/hv_1_23.html

brahmadatta took lady sannati as his wife, who is the daughter of the invulnerable asita￾devala... she is an immaculate lady endowed with unique dedication with flexile behaviour – saM

nata mati – all good qualities derived from the training of asita-devala.

What the above says is Anuha was the contemporary of Pratipa, Bheeshma’s grandfather.

Brahmadatta who was Anuha’s son would’ve been Shanthanu’s contemporary. He was

married to Sannati, Devala’s daughter.

Since Asita asked for Satyavati’s hand, we can assume he was Shanthanu’s contemporaray.

Ie Shanthanu in hatsinapuri, Brahmadatta in Panchal, and Asita in Narada family. But

Brahmadatta was married to Asita’s daughter (if he was Asita-Devala or granddaughter (if

Devala was Asita’s son). Wow, Brahmadatta married a young woman (no surprises)

Then came a quick succession of kings in Panchal – probably Bheeshma’s contemporaries

– who possibly died. Ugrayuddha killed the last one called Bhallata. Ugrayuddha then asked

for Satyavati’s hand in marriage as Shanthanu had just died. This caused Bheeshma to go to

war. He killed Ugrayuddha and brought back Prishata or Drupada (see below) as king of

Panchal.

http://www.mahabharata-resources.org/harivamsa/hv_1_20.html

In this great lineage of paurava-s there arose a king named mahati, and from him the lineage of

princes is like this: mahati, rukma-ratha, su-pArshva sumati, sannati, kR^ita.

This prince kR^ita is the disciple of a vedic-teacher from kosala province called hiraNya￾nAbha...

kArti, the son of kR^ita

This kArti or kIrti is the father of the valiant legatee of paurava-s, namely ugra-Ayudha, who

attacked and slain the then king of pAnchAla, a legatee of nIpa and the grandsire of pR^iShata...

Other texts say that ugra-Ayudha attacked and slew pR^iShata, the grandfather of drupada; others

say he slew daNDa-sena the father of pR^iShata; while mbTn says that pR^iShata is the father of

drupada. For mbh even Dhrishtadyumna is the son of Prishata. Hence pR^iShata here is to be taken

as an ancestor, grandsire, rather than a strict term grandfather.

https://www.sacred-texts.com/bud/j5/j5029.htm

Once upon a time, they say, Brahmadatta, king of Kāsi, owing to his having an army, seized on the

kingdom of Kosala, slew its king and carried off his chief queen, who was then pregnant [426], to

Benares and there made her his consort. By and bye she gave birth to a daughter, and as the king

had neither son nor daughter of his own begetting, he was greatly pleased and said, "Fair lady,

choose some boon at my hands." She accepted the boon but reserved her choice. Now they named

the young princess Kaṇhā. So when she was grown up, her mother said, "Dear child, your father

offered me a boon, which I accepted but put off my choice: do you now choose whatever you like."

From the excess of her passion breaking through maidenly shame she said to her mother, "Nothing

else is lacking to me; get him to hold an assembly 5 to choose me a husband." The mother repeated this to the king. The king said, "Let her have whatever she wishes," and he had an assembly for

choosing a husband proclaimed. In the palace yard a host of men assembled, arrayed in all their

splendour. Kaṇhā, who with a basket of flowers in her hand stood looking out of an upper lattice

window, approved of no single one of them. Then Ajjuna, Nakula, Bhīmasena, Yudhiṭṭhila,

Sahadeva, of the family of king Pāṇḍu, these five sons of king Pāṇḍu,

Note that the Buddhist jatakas say King of Kasi killed the king of Kosala and married the

pregnant queen whose daughter was Kanha/Panchali (see below). Ugrayuddha was from

Kosala though he was ruling Panchal. When Ugrayuddha died, either Prishata or Drupada

was installed as king. I’m tempted to think Drupada because even Dhrishtadyumna is

called Prishata, suggesting Prishata is simply a patronym for the family. So Panchali

could’ve been Kosala/Panchala king’s daughter whom Drupada adopted. We have to

presume the deposed king of Panchal was in Kasi and returned to Panchal to kill Kosala

King. There is a different Buddhist jataka which says the slain Kosala king had a son who

was later adopted by the victorious Kasi king – Dhrishtadyumna?

None of this negates the possibility of Ekanamsa being Panchali which is what I'm leaning toward.

http://mahabharata-resources.org/harivamsa/vishnuparva/hv_2_004.html

After her (seventh) conception was aborted, devakI conceived (for the eighth time), for which,

kaMsa had destroyed her seven conceptions.

The ministers (of kaMsa) guarded that conception with careful efforts. But then, hari (viShNu) was

residing in her womb at his self will.

The same day, yashodA, conceived nidrA who carries out the instructions of viShNu and who

manifested from viShNu's body.

Before the completion of the normal period of pregnancy, the women, devakI and yashodA

delivered in the eighth month at the same time.

A girl was born to yashodA at the same time of the same night when kR^iShNa, who elevates the

(fame of) vR^iShNi race was born.

One (yashodA) was the wife of nandagopa and the other (devakI) was the wife of vasudeva. Both

yashodA and devakI became pregnant almost at the same time.

In the midnight, at the auspicious time of abhijit, devakI, gave birth to viShNu and yashodA gave

birth to a girl.

Hearing the words of vasudeva, achyuta (viShNu) concealed his form. He persuaded his father to

take him to the house of nandagopa.

vasudeva, fond of his son, quickly carried the boy to the house of yashodA in the night.

Unknown to yashodA, he kept the boy with her and carried the girl to devakI's bed.

Thus the two new-born babies were exchanged. vasudeva was terrified but satisfied. He went out of

the house.

Anakadundubhi (vasudeva) informed kaMsa, son of ugrasena about (the birth of) his beautiful

daughter.

Hearing this, mighty kaMsa, along with guards, quickly reached the entrance of the house of

vasudeva.

At the entrance, immediately, he spoke the harsh words: "Who is born? Hand over the new-born to

me quickly".

Then the women of devakI's house wailed loudly. devakI, lamenting and weeping, spoke with

faltering voice.

She begged kaMsa: This child is a girl. Lord! My seven boys were killed by you as soon as they were

born.

This is a girl. She looks as though she is dead. If you please, kindly give her to me. Seeing the girl,

kaMsa was attracted to her and he felt happy within.

The heartless (vR^ithAmati) kaMsa said: As she is born, this girl is dead.

The child who was in a pathetic condition in the womb, her hair still wet with the water of the

womb, was placed on the earth in front of kaMsa by devakI who is equal to earth (in patience). The

man grabbed the child for throwing her.

He whirled her around and suddenly threw her against the rock forcefully. The girl, who was thrown

against the rock, slipped away and without being hit, rose in the sky.

Suddenly, she gave up the body of the new-born. With disheveled hair, adorned with celestial

garlands and pastes, she addressed kaMsa.

All her limbs were shining with garlands. She was adorned with a dazzling crown. The goddess

remained kanyA forever. She was praised by all deva-s.

She was dressed in blue and yellow. Her breasts were like elephant's heads. Her thighs were as broad

as a chariot. Her face was beautiful like the moon. She had four arms.

Her complexion was bright like lightning. Her eyes were red like the morning sun. Her breasts were

like rain clouds. She appeared like a cloudy twilight.

In the night engulfed by darkness, she dazzled with her bhUtagaNa-s. She danced, laughed and

manifested with opposites.

The terrible Goddess rose in the sky. She drank the best drink. She laughed aloud and admonished

kaMsa.

kaMsa, for your own destruction, you tried to kill me. You threw me all of a sudden against the rock.

Hence, at the time of your death, when your body is dragged by your enemy, I will tear it apart with

my hands and drink the warm blood.

Uttering these terrible words, the goddess along with her followers, roamed in her celestial abode as

she pleased.

That girl grew up there, worshipped by the vR^iShNI-s. As ordered by vasudeva, she was looked

after like a son.

(janamejaya !) Understand that this Goddess is born from a portion of prajApati (brahmA).

Hence she is simultaneously ekAnaMshA - one and without having any portion (division)

(with brahma). The yogakanyA appeared for the protection of keshava.

All yadava-s with good mind worshipped her since she protected kR^iShNa with her divine body

After she disappeared, kaMsa thought that she was indeed his death. He met devakI alone and spoke

to her, ashamed.

https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/vp/vp118.htm

will myself become incarnate in the eighth conception of Devakí; and you shall immediately take a

similar character as the embryo offspring of Yaśodá. In the night of the eighth lunation of the dark

half of the month Nabhas, in the season of the rains, I shall be born. You shall receive birth on the

ninth. Impelled and aided by my power, Vasudeva shall bear me to the bed of Yaśodá, and you to

that of Devakí. Kansa shall take you, and hold you up to dash you against a stone; but you shall

escape from his grasp into the sky, where the hundred-eyed Indra shall meet and do homage to you,

through reverence for me, and shall bow before you, and acknowledge you as his sister. Having slain

Sumbha, Nisumbha, and numerous other demons 25, you shall sanctify the earth in many places 26.

Thou art wealth, progeny, fame, patience, heaven and earth, fortitude, modesty, nutrition, dawn, and

every other female (form or property). They who address thee morning and afternoon with

reverence and praise, and call thee Áryá, Durgá, Vedagarbhá, Ambiká, Bhadrá, Bhadrakálí, Kshemí,

or Kshemankarí, shall receive from my bounty whatever they desire. Propitiated with offerings of

wine and flesh and various viands, thou shalt bestow upon mankind all their prayers. Through my

favour all men shall ever have faith in thee. Assured of this, go, goddess, and execute my

commands."

https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m03/m03217.htm

and that worshipful daughter of Angiras, whom they call unrivalled and without portion (ekanamsa) and about

whom people utter the words kuhu kuhu wonder, is known by the name of Kuhu.

A girl dark in color, called Kuhu or New Moon, who was specifically appointed by Krishna for his plans, who was raised as a son, who was stated to be Angirasa's daughter.

If that is not Panchali's resume, what is?