~| Whatever you want to argue about |~ - Page 80

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

1. If Kunti sent the child to hisvfather, the father who already said he didn't want anything to do with the baby could've easily tossed him out. And Athirath is actually stated to be childless when he encounters the basket. It is more likely that Kunti somehow contacted the prince's family (or Durvasa did). Perhaps they arranged for Athiratha to adopt Karna. I do think Karna was the eldest there.

Possible, but I dont think kunti could have done it herself. Most likely through Durvasa.

2. Kunti had a swayamvara for the same reason Panchali had a swayamvara. Hers too was a political alliance which was fixed long before by Vyasa and Drupada. So why the swayamvara? Why not simply invite the Pandavas back and have a grand wedding?

I agree that Pandu Kunti marriage was fixed. Just that the fixing was not done by Shurasena.

Because if he had planned that he would not have given her to kuntibhoj. As a King of Mathura he was far more respectable than Kuntibhoja Yadava.

Kuntibhoj was Yadava just like shurasen but from a poorer and smaller kingdom. Infact he was from the out of respectability haihaya branch of yadavas already decimated from power by Parshuram.

Swayamvara is also meant to be a show of money and the strength of the eventual alliance.

Most likely reason given to Kuntibhoj to organize it in the first place as he wouldnt care to do anything for Kunti otherwise.

But this advice would have been given by Durvasa or Vasudev, not shurasen. I feel it is most likely Durvasa.

I think Shurasen died soon after the coup. He is not mentioned anywhere in the stories after Ugrasen comes to power other than as parent reference

Kuntibhoj was said to be childless. That gave HIM a reason to adopt. Shurasena had to have his own reasons. He needed an alliance with the Kurus.

When he was a king he definetly needed alliances, that was why he was getting all his daughters married to Kings. If Kunti was not asked by his friend he would have done that directly for her, himself. I feel he gave her in good faith to a childless friend with no ulterior motive. And most likely the coup happened soon after and he died

Re: other yadava princesses being married to royal families... none like the Kurus with their purple blood.

Chedi was purple blood of Puru Uparichara Vasu. Infact more purple than Kurus because there was no niyoga progeny.

And like I mentioned before Shurasen himself was more purple blood yadava than kuntibhoj.

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

@Chili

Perhaps Vasudeva had nothing to do with Kunti's adoption. Perhaps Vasudeva was much older than Kunti and DID have a hand in the adoption

Didn't matter. She blamed Shurasena, definitely, and I believe also Vasudeva in her conversation with Krishna.

She definitely blamed Vasudev, but that blame was actually baseless. Her alliance to Kurus was of anyway not much help to Yadavas. Heck she didn't even try to get her brother freed while her husband was of great military valour.

Not at least till the main generation grew up and even then Yadavs helped Kunti more than vice versa.

Coming to her Swayamwar, her marriage with Kurus/Pandavas could have been a motive from the Yadavs side, but the Kurus had not much interest in it. By then Yadavs were a small clan ruling over Mathura (and I guess some of their clan mates had by then developed Dwarika. No way that Krishnaji could have built the city overnight) Kuntibhoj too wasn't some big shot. Him getting interested in Kunti wasn't much of political gain.

I don't think marriage with Pandu was the intention, rather I think intention was to marry within some well renowned Kshatriya clan. Her half sisters were still pure Kshtriya/Suta blood, she was the daughter of a Yadav chief/king and a Naga commoner, it would have been much more difficult to get her married into respectable houses

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

He surely did his own propaganda. But he lost. So we don't know what his stories were.

I had read this statement long back, what if Satan is actually a good guy, we just never got to hear his side of the story

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

@DeepikaGupta

Kamsa was no saint. He sent assassin after assassin to kill Krishna. But surely we don't believe he was so dumb as to not know that the easiest way to "kill" Devaki's children was to put her and Vasudeva in separate cells?😆 Those 7 infant deaths were highly unlikely to be Kamsa's doing. Propaganda is all.

Vasudeva was no devil. But he did manipulate things pretty well. Heck, even after Kamsa was deposed, it was Vasudeva's son with his favorite wife who got to rule (though without crown). Balram called the shots in Dwaraka. Poor Krishna was accused at least twice of being a thief and a murderer by the Yadavas. When Salwa attacked, his own family wouldn't help fight except Pradyumna and (I think) Samba.

The TV show depictions of Yadavas as a cheerful clan are so far from the truth. They were greedy and murderous, even more so than the other major lines in Aryavarta.

This mean even balram was not transferred to rohini's worm from devki's worm.

Can u plz me provide any citation which prove vasudev was not wrong.

Thou I don't trust serials coz I know distortions hote 2 suit d drama but whole story can't be changed.

Kansa wasn't a saint for sure but definitely till the Akashwani he was not a culprit. Heck he couldn't have even been a tyrannical ruler by then since Ugrasen (the supposed good man) was the king with all powers

Not that I have any soft corner for him, but if you take it purely from religious point of view, he was actually feared for life (by Akashwani) to commit the crimes he did. He was wrongly said that his pot of sins was filled. I don't understand what exactly that narrative was for

Originally posted by: deepikagupta9

This mean even balram was not transferred to rohini's worm from devki's worm.

Can u plz me provide any citation which prove vasudev was not wrong.

Thou I don't trust serials coz I know distortions hote 2 suit d drama but whole story can't be changed.

Do you really think transfer from one womb to other is possible? Especially when the lady is in prison and has no medical support?

This is not a possibility in any case. If you want to go by religious teachings then definitely there was a womb transfer, but practically definitely not a possibility.

About Karna

I seriously don't think he was ever sent to his biological family/father. Suryadev (biological father) was pretty clear that Kunti will have to bear the child now that she has invited him and that he will not be able to raise the child.

Kunti sending the kid was not a thing I think.

Most probably it was Kunti/Durwasa who found out that Adhirath from Anga royal family is childless and had an arrangement with him to adopt the child at birth, or somehow Adhirath got to know about the pregnancy of Kunti and approached for adoption. (The first possiblity is more)

Karna is said to have been found by a childless Adhirath and Radha, so Adhirath was most probably childless by then. In fact I think Karna remained the only child to his (foster) patents for a good period of 5-6 years before his brothers were born. That is why he was loved by Adhirath Radha over their biological kids

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

Do you really think transfer from one womb to other is possible? Especially when the lady is in prison and has no medical support?

This is not a possibility in any case. If you want to go by religious teachings then definitely there was a womb transfer, but practically definitely not a possibility.

It's not about religious teachings its about u don't have answer about it .

U guys just want 2 prove vedvyas & other writers who wrote MB & krishna related things r liers who just wanted fool people , jab ki unke pass aisa karne ki koi vajah nhi thi .

Aur agar bewakoof bana rhe the , uska reason do aise kya dushmani thi kansa jo usse villain bana diya gaya, jo ki surf excel white tha .

Originally posted by: deepikagupta9

It's not about religious teachings its about u don't have answer about it .

U guys just want 2 prove vedvyas & other writers who wrote MB & krishna related things r liers who just wanted fool people , jab ki unke pass aisa karne ki koi vajah nhi thi .

Aur agar bewakoof bana rhe the , uska reason do aise kya dushmani thi kansa jo usse villain bana diya gaya, jo ki surf excel white tha .

VedVyas definitely had his reasons to white wash Vasudev since he was the father of the winner and blackshade Kansa since he was the loser. History is always written by the winners who black paint the losers. Humesha hota hai. Just read how bad Raja Dahir is made to be, when he certainly wasn't so

But it's definitely about religious feelings, just tell me one way how without divinity can the child from one womb be transferred to another womb! Is there anyway that could be possible??

@DeepikaGupta

What citation are you asking for about Vasudeva being wrong?

Are you asking for citations the magic was not actually magic?

I can cite you laws of physics and biology to tell you womb transfer which isn't possible today, likely didn't happen then.

Re: Vyasa "fooling" people. No, Vyasa wrote a poem. It's not his fault that readers don't seem to remember poetry comes with metaphors. Just because Byron wrote "She walks in beauty like the night" doesn't mean Anne Beatrix Wilmott (the woman he wrote about) was an incarnation of the night.

There is another thing to consider. A lot of these texts were DELIBERATELY written with magical stuff to obscure. A little knowledge was even then considered a dangerous thing, and authors wanted only those with analytical ability to understand. For ex, there are sections of Atharva Veda which clearly describe treatments, but only someone trained in human anatomy can understand. Another ex. Putana who tried to kill Krishna was also supposed to demon of childhood illnesses. Given the marks on Krishna's hands and feet, I'd bet anything he survived some sort of pox virus.