Abhimanyu's Death necessary? - Page 5

Originally posted by: anu rulz

@ Vrish, i guess, arjun dint react the same way for Iravan, for the same reason u pointed out in a later post, Iravan's mother,(am sorry i dnt remember her name) was someone, arjun almost dint remember till Iravan came up to the Pandavas and offered to fight.. abhi, on the other hand, was not only known and loved, but also a part of Krishna's family..i guess, his death wud have meant lot more to Arjun than Iravan's.. abhi was looked upon as the fair heir of the Pandavas, if am not mistaken..

Originally posted by: raghu0307

@Medha,

Dont remember when I posted last but surely after a long time I am posting in this forum. Dont want to make this a war but I feel many of us(me inclusive) dont understand the essence of Mahabharata completely. Still in whatever I have read, I can give my opinion trying to be as unbiased as possible. To me Mahabharata is the truest depiction in our epics of human nature. When I say human nature, I mean the grey shades we all have. No one is entirely good or bad. If we are subject to bad situations we do feel negative emotions and we do show it(in the form of anger, sarcasm, tears, humiliating others or revenge). If we experience good times, we feel happy.

Karnas character and his actions are just a consequence of the situations he had been put into. Situations which were not under his control like his birth, his rejection for no mistake of his. All he wanted was respect and a reason for why he was being rejected. d. All this built negative emotions in him.

Lets face it.. Today If I or you know that we are good at something and we are rejected we do feel dejected, frustrated and rejected. So lets not try to project ourselves as the ultimate icon of goodness cos we are not.. none of us are. Pandavas humiliated Karna right from the beginning which was seen as an opportunity by Duryodhana. If they hadn't, do you think Karna would have been on Duryodhanas side. We can go on arguing .. he should not have done that, he should not have done this but the truth is none of the characters in Mahabharata or any of us in this forum have faced the tragic life that Karna did. So really none of us are in a position to comment on his actions.

To me, when we are subject to unfair situations, we all react in a negative way and do breed negativity. So did the characters in Mahabharata. But it is the amount of goodness that we retain that make us the people we are. To me Karna given his situations and his rejections, handled his life in a dignified way. He was not perfect, he did let his negative emotions take control at times(in draupadis swayamwar etc) but none of us are perfect. Nor was Arjuna, Yudhishtira, Bheeshma, Drona or any character.

Even today parents do name their children after karn which to me is a testimony that his goodness is seen by many. No one keeps their childrens name as Duryodhan, Dushyasan, Shakuni..

Originally posted by: Medha.S

Well, I will not try to change your opinion -- What you think is a completely valid way of perceiving the situation and the same goes for my own. In the end, you have to take the responsibility for the decisions and choices you make while facing a situation -- the difference in choices and actions is what sets people apart from each other.

I have already stated my views on other threads regarding all the points you mentioned so I wont repeat them.

You might want to read Adi Parva though -- Pandavas did not humiliate him in Gurukul -- It is stated that he was jealous of Arjun and Duryodhana supported him due to it. And I am not saying he was the devil and worse than Duryodhan or Shakuni.He had good in him but was mostly tainted by the negative that he surrounded himself with.

As for Unfairness -- again, how you react to it sets you apart. Pandavas too dealt with unfairness since their childhood -- they never succumbed to negativity and devising unfair means to kill, conquer and capture or justified stripping of a woman for being a prostitute. I would say it was their upbringing till they were teenagers in the forest -- but Karna had good parents with an earning Father. So I dont know what to say about that --- You can blame parents and their upbringing for only so long -- After certain age it will be all on you.

I cant try to murder people or verbally/physically humiliate a woman -- I will take the blame -No one is going to care about my situation, my upbringing, my childhood, my status as an orphan or adopted or suppressed lower class -- which Sutas were not -- that was Shudras.

And influencing goes both ways and everyone even in those time knew it -- everyone knew it wasn't just Karna being influenced by Duryodhan, same was true for the reverse. As for humiliation, yes -- People insulted him -- Bhishma, Pandavas, Krishna etc all insulted him -- And he insulted them back -- initiated it, replied to it. You get what you give, you give what you get.

Originally posted by: frappie

@anu rulz

Iravan was the son of Uloopi who cannot be given the status of Arjuna's wife though..IMO

Yes Iravan was killed by deceit on ninth day of the war due to illusions created by Alamvusha but then again there is a folklore of Iravana being sacrificed for the sake of victory in the war..

and the enormity of pain on Abhimanyu being slain is definitely more than that of Iravana.