Karna: Does He Deserve So Much Respect??[DT Note Page 15] - Page 25

As I said, this can be further argued in d&d thread, this vow breaking is not related to Karna and hence this thread will go off road if we continue to discuss this matter.

Originally posted by: TheWatcher

I dont know how I missed this post, anyways.

Pandavas did make merry when Karna died, after Bhima killed Dushashan - he danced around his body.

Pandavas were no saints as well, they did burn the Nishada women and her sons. Well, I dont think anyone can argue about that, can they?.

Members have already posted regarding the Nishada woman and her sons.

Yes it's true that the pandavas and lord Krishna made merry after Karna's death. Bhima danced around Duhshasan's body..atleast I find nothing immoral in Bhima's act after killing that Duhshasan. I guess nobody will weep bitterly after killing his wife's molester. In contrast to their acts, what wrong Abhimanyu had done?

Pandavas were no saints, that's true! But they weren't vile, crooked and devilish like the other side either. Just observe their situation:

1. They were born in a forest where they witnessed their parents die.

2. After their arrival in HP... They mixed with Bheeshm (Arjuna in particular), Vidur. Sadly the regent ruler i.e. their name sake uncle didn't give a damn to them.

3. Bhima's poisoning...!

4. Lakshagraha conspiracy.

5. They get a Barren Khandav land denying their rights on the kingdom.

6. Dice game/Vastra haran/Dice game 2 - Kingdom snatched by cheat.

7. 13 years exile including the 1 year agyaat vaas.

8. Duryodhan and his company arrive to mock them, it backfires.
Damn Yudhisthira..you should have been away then. Arjuna and the other three kill thousands of innocent Gandharvas for the sake of rescuing the evil men.

9. Continuous attempts to ruin their agyaat vaas.

10. Even post the exile, they didn't get their rightful kingdom.

11. Five villages, they were ready to settle with five villages.

These are just a few..! Yet people point out the mistakes committed by them as if they equal or surpass the SINS committed intentionally for their ill..Krishna, the supreme was on their side, alone to judge perhaps!
Yudhisthira was guilty during the dice game yes, but majority of his mistake rose from the fact they he could never think ill of even those who deserved worse. Did he ever talk ill about anyone despite of all what happened?

I wasn't pro-pandava, recently I've become after discovering the depths of the epic.

Originally posted by: -Shruti

These are just a few..! Yet people point out the mistakes committed by them as if they equal or surpass the SINS committed intentionally for their ill.

Originally posted by: -Shruti

Members have already posted regarding the Nishada woman and her sons.

Yes it's true that the pandavas and lord Krishna made merry after Karna's death. Bhima danced around Duhshasan's body..atleast I find nothing immoral in Bhima's act after killing that Duhshasan. I guess nobody will weep bitterly after killing his wife's molester. In contrast to their acts, what wrong Abhimanyu had done?

ya i agree there is nothing wrong in celebrating your enemies death .The response was to the post saying pandavs wouldn't have celebrated their enemies death which is a wrong statement because they did.But i would again say nothing wrong in celebrations

Originally posted by: ThePirateKing

Did Karna rise above his mistakes is the question to be answered.

Actually some posts were directed towards them, that's why I bothered to post my own view regarding that.

ok quite a long discussion is going on i can't go through all i am only posting my view for now

the relation of mine with mahabharat started when i was not more than 5 with BRC mahabharat airing , that time the characters i was immediately drowned to were undoubtedly Krishna and Arjun , although i actually cried during abhimanyu and karna's death though i didn't know who was karna

then i read the epics in forms of comics that gave me idea of basic story only and honestly then i was more drowned to ramayan as the story was much simple than mahabharat, then at the age of 8-9 i read chheleder Ramayan and chheleder mahabhara by upendrakishor roy andf that time i immediately got attracted towards Arjun and considered him as my hero and that time i actually didn't like karna

one day while asking about mahabharat to my father suddenly father said karna is a very tragic character , i asked why , father said you will understand later , ofcourse he couldn't describe to a 8-9 years old child what illegitimate child is
my idea about karna being kanin was according to my great grandmom's description that karna was born from ear of kunti (as in bengali translation ear is kaan)
but since then my view changed as i got confused that so karna was not as much bad as i thought?
but the time i started getting attracted towards the character was in 5th standard there was a piece in my bengali text book from a celebrated bengali novel Pather Paanchali by renowned author Bibhutibhushan Banerjee where i read main protagonist Apu is shading tears for Karna, the magical words of bibhutibhushan for Karna at once started drowning me towards Karna, and that time in age of 12 Karna became my love, i still used to consider krishnarjun as hero but i started relating with Karna
later i read ramayan and mahabharat by rajshekhar basu and then by the time i was quite mature to understand every single character of Mahabharat had own flaws
even Krishna was not free from that , still my love for Karna was same

i am still among the very few people who love Karna and Arjun equally and can't stand any bad words against any of them but still accept both were wrong in places

i am never fan of Draupadi but i had a feeling towards her , but still i think it was her mistake to reject Karna on basis of his caste
but that doesn't mean the way karna abused her was any way justified or deserved by her but its true i believe she hurt on his weakest point

in childhood we had faced competition and jealousy in many field so i can't blame karna then to be jealous of arjun anyway Drona favoured Arjun more
in rangabhoomi i felt it was pandavas who were more responsible to make karna against them specially Bheema was too insulting to him and that time karna only wanted recognition of his skill
in lakshagriha i felt Karna was bound to support Durodhan because of his loyality to friend yes he was wrong but were not pandavas wrong to burn the nishada woman and her five sons alive? if keeping silent knowing a plan was a sin pandavas were worse sinner
i never could forgive them for the incident and if they were unaware of killing them then why karna gets blamed over killing a cow unknowingly?
and it was bheem who fired the place
but as i said i was mature enough to accept everyone's misdeeds. and specially i gave a pass to Arjun over all these as he had actually no say over his elders
but if karna was involved in conspiracy arjun too was involved in the murder so here both are same

so one has to accept both pandavas and karna did many mistakes

during Draupadi incident everyone was wrong including Karna yes i blame pandavas too,

there is a line by our Rabindranath Tagore
"anyay je kare ar anyay je sahe
taba ghrina tare jeno trina sama dahe"

"who does wrong and who tolerates wrong (oh lord) burn them as grass in your hatred"

that means those who tolerates wrong deeds are equal to the offenders so pandavas in that case were equal to kauravas

and during killing of Abhimanyu that was most glorified death abhimanyu could ever get , yes Karna broke his bow but that was in a fair war , that was a cruel death but a suitable death for a braveheart as abhimanyu
Karna was not only one who killed abhimanyu from back if Karna was not involved then too Abhimanyu could have been killed
and Abhimanyu also killed Lakshmana, son of Duryodhan , both of them was like sons to Karna , what could Karna do he couldn't throw his bow it would be insult to warrior's duty which is foremost in battlefield

but still Karna was wrong being involved to kill his nephew when all the warriors jumped on the boy

but Arjun was worse while killing vrishasen , Vrishasena was fighting with nakul and he attacked Vrishasen from back , if abhimanyu's death was cruel , Vrishasena's death was no less cruel and that too Karna had to bear his dearest son's death in front his eyes , Arjun atleast was spared from the pain

was not that enough punishment for karna, and here too both karna and arjun settled the score

Karna was the one who truely repented on his mistakes , he very well knew he is going to die because when Krishna is there none can kill arjun

and he accepted his death with open arm

why i won't love and respect the character

Originally posted by: -Shruti

Members have already posted regarding the Nishada woman and her sons.

Yes it's true that the pandavas and lord Krishna made merry after Karna's death. Bhima danced around Duhshasan's body..atleast I find nothing immoral in Bhima's act after killing that Duhshasan. I guess nobody will weep bitterly after killing his wife's molester. In contrast to their acts, what wrong Abhimanyu had done?

Actually the person who asked the question specifically said - did Pandavas make merry when their enemy died?.

My reply was - Yes, they did make merry, hell they even rejoiced after Karna lost his Armour.

Making merry after killing an opponent was no bad thing, everybody did that including the Pandavas