Karna: Does He Deserve So Much Respect??[DT Note Page 15] - Page 15

Originally posted by: Cotswolds

"Vaisampayana continued, 'Then on the occasion of an almsgiving, O king, Kunti fed on a certain night a large number of Brahmanas. There came also a number of ladies who while eating and drinking, enjoyed there as they pleased, and with Kunti's leave returned to their respective
homes.

Desirous of obtaining food, there came, as though impelled by fate, to that feast, in course of her wanderings, a Nishada woman, the mother of five children, accompanied by all her sons. O
king, she, and her children, intoxicated with the wine they drank, became incapable.
Deprived of consciousness and more dead than alive, she with all her sons lay down in that mansion to sleep. Then when all the inmates of the house lay down to sleep, there began to blow a violent wind in the night. Bhima then set fire to the house just where Purochana was sleeping. Then the son of Pandu set fire to the door of that house of lac. Then he set fire to the mansion in several parts all around. Then when the sons of Pandu were satisfied that the house had caught fire in several parts those chastisers of foes with their mother, entered the subterranean passage without losing
any time.

It does not say anything about pandavas murdered Nishada deliberately. Pandavas burnt house to purely kill Purochana which I admit.. Does not look like they were aware of other casualties.. It was their bad luck.

my point is if we can make assumptions about karna and his involvement in lashagarah without anything being clearly mentioned same can be done here as well

if we can assume while burning the mansion pandavs did not see who was in there then one can also assume karna wasn't happy with lakshagarh since nothing is specifically mentioned in the epic either ways

Originally posted by: Cotswolds

Originally posted by: Cotswolds

This is a quotaion Vyaasa clearly mentions that Karna was aware of it..So this is not a conjecture..

(I think he was reluctant party as he later clearly censures Dushy on this after Draupadi Swayamvar..)

'Then the son of Suvala (Sakuni), king Duryodhana, Duhsasana and Kama, in consultation with one another, formed an evil conspiracy. With the sanction of Dhritarashtra, the king of the Kurus, they resolved to burn to death Kunti and her (five) sons.

But in case of Pandavas participation its pure conjecture.. Thats my point.. Please correct me if I am wrong..

Originally posted by: Cotswolds

amritat.. if you think this conversation does not fit in the thread, we will discontinue it.. as this thread focusses on Karna and not pandavas..

I just wanted to find out more about Pandavas participation (if at all) in that heinous crime.. It will be like killing your guest something Yudhi, epitome of Dharma will never agree.. It does not fit his image..

Hence was curious..Sorry dont mean to divert focus of this thread..

Originally posted by: amritat

After all the Lakshagriha plotting was discussed in this thread, and many people concluded that Karna was not at fault, or he was reluctant.

I could be wrong, but I have not come across any part, where Karna shows his reluctance.

Or maybe I missed some paragraphs.

Originally posted by: Cotswolds

Vaisampayana said, 'Thus addressed by Duryodhana, Karna said, 'It doth not seem to me, O Duryodhana, that thy reasoning is well-founded. O perpetuator of the Kuru race, no method will succeed against the Pandavas. O brave prince, thou hast before, by various subtle means, striven to carry out thy wishes. But ever hast thou failed to slay thy foes. They were then living near thee, O king! They were then unfledged and of tender years, but thou couldst not injure them then. They are now living at a distance, grown up, full-fledged. The sons of Kunti, O thou of firm resolution, cannot now be injured by any subtle contrivances of thine. This is my opinion. As they are aided by the very Fates, and as they are desirous of regaining their ancestral kingdom, we can never succeed in injuring them by any means in our power. It is impossible to create disunion amongst them. They can never be disunited who have all taken to a common wife. Nor can we succeed in estranging Krishna from the Pandavas by any spies of ours. She chose them as her lords when they were in adversity.

This is excerpt of Karna chiding Dury when he wants to harm Pandavas after Drau marriage.. Karna says that it was Dury's ideas which went haywire..

Originally posted by: Cotswolds

"Vaisampayana continued, 'Then on the occasion of an almsgiving, O king, Kunti fed on a certain night a large number of Brahmanas. There came also a number of ladies who while eating and drinking, enjoyed there as they pleased, and with Kunti's leave returned to their respective
homes.

Desirous of obtaining food, there came, as though impelled by fate, to that feast, in course of her wanderings, a Nishada woman, the mother of five children, accompanied by all her sons. O
king, she, and her children, intoxicated with the wine they drank, became incapable.
Deprived of consciousness and more dead than alive, she with all her sons lay down in that mansion to sleep. Then when all the inmates of the house lay down to sleep, there began to blow a violent wind in the night. Bhima then set fire to the house just where Purochana was sleeping. Then the son of Pandu set fire to the door of that house of lac. Then he set fire to the mansion in several parts all around. Then when the sons of Pandu were satisfied that the house had caught fire in several parts those chastisers of foes with their mother, entered the subterranean passage without losing
any time.

It does not say anything about pandavas murdered Nishada deliberately. Pandavas burnt house to purely kill Purochana which I admit.. Does not look like they were aware of other casualties.. It was their bad luck.

Originally posted by: amritat