Dharm or Adharm

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Neutral2

@Neutral2

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Posted: 11 years ago

This show is all about dharm, adharm, satya, asatya, swarth and parmarth. We all have flaws in the matter of dharm gyan. Lets discuss the most interesting topic.

1. Dharmraj KARN - Krishna said that karn posses all the 5 quality that draupadi want- dharmraj like yudhisthir, mighty like bhim, skillful bowmen like arjun, handsome like nakul, wisest like shahdev

How KARN=YUDI in dharm following

1. In one version karn didnt said a lie to parshuram. He just came in disguise of brahman and nodded his head in yes when asked by parshuram whether he is braman or not. He didnt say a word.

In ved vyas he said yes but after parshuram came to know the truth he replied suta is the origin from the intermixture of bramin and kshatyiya.

In other version he said he didnt know his real mother and father. Since all orphan are gods child and you are god brahmin, he become brahmin.

It is just like yudhistir half lie of aswatthma mara gya

But the intension of lie is to misguide other hence both are punished

MORAL-Bhism said to yudi lie is not adharm when it is said to save a life or to save a guru or to crack a joke/majak or to realise someone what he had done.

2.Karn listen the plan of duryodhan of burning palace to kill pandav. Since Duryadhan himself told this plan to karn he stuck between dharm and mitra and decided to kept silent just like yudhistir remain silent when unjustice is done to karn at rangbhoomi and yudi was stuck between rule and justice.

3.At swayamvar when draupadi said karn didnt participate as he is suta and swayamvar is made only for kshatriya. Later he allow brahmin and arjun won this competition. Karn cant tolerate this unjust and start fighting with his bow. Later he realise only pandu putra arjun can counter his attack when he was anger and no rules were broken as arjun was kshtriya, he withdraw the war.

4. Karn call draupadi is like wh**e for marrying more than one man because drupad himself said that neither society would allow this nor ved itself.

5. Before the war when dury points out that they already know that pandava were hidden in virat palace before agyatvas was completed thats why he would not give a single piece of land.

Karn point was arjun was in indralok for some month hence disobey the rule of vanvas. Even yudi has some doubt whether karn's point is right or wrong but lord krishna tell about mama shakuni magic dice.

6. Karn killed abhimanyu in the order of senapati dronacharya just like yudhistir played the gambling in the orderof &nbsp;his bade papa Dhristrastra. Even in todays military if a soldier is order to kill an innocent unarmed messanger he have to do his duty. All the paap goes to the higher one who gives order. Thats why dharm mata protect karn on 17th day of war and arjun is not able to kill karn when he is on knee. Lord krishna went in disguise of brahmin to take all the punya, austerity of worshiping sun everyday and his dharm so that karn can be killed.Just like yudhistir remain immortal.

7. In one version yudi married only to draupadi and after her fall down from the hill he did second marriage. &nbsp;In the same version karn also married to one named vrishali.Other version say that both have more than 1 marriages.

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Neutral2

@Neutral2

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Posted: 11 years ago

2. Partial DRAUPADI - Draupadi is supposed to be Dharmlady being the wife Dharmraj but she is little bit partial. How-

i) She didnt allow suta Karn but allow brahmin at her swayamver. But swayamver is made only for kshatriya.

ii)At Draupadi Cheerharan she points out that if yudhisthir lost himself how can he stake his wife. Yudhistir replied that even a slave has his own property/rights. At last vidur said if a slave win from his master at dice game it is just like win in the dream because at his master order he have to return all his winning.

But at that time it was illogical because on the other hand duryodhan stake all pandav. He said if yudi win this game all pandav will be free/independent..

Starbharat has logic that dury stake his wife bhanumati then draupadi comment was right because if yudi win how can bhanumati be slave of a slave yudi.

iii)She said jaydrath would be punished but not killed because he was husband of their sister. However at the time of keechak she wanted him to be killed.

iv) she laugh at duryodhan fall down.

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amritat

@amritat

Sparkler

Posted: 11 years ago

The concept of Dharm n Adharm is very complicated n we can all interpret it the way we want to.

As for Draupadi's Swamvar, Arjun participated only when all the Kshatriyas could not complete the task.

As far as the rules are concerned, in those days, inter-caste marriage between a woman of higher caste n a man of lower caste was not allowed in the society. But the reverse was allowed.

Thus Draupadi rejected Karna n Arjun was not stopped from participating in the Swamvar.

She was not being partial to anyone. She was only following the norms of the time in which she lived.

As for Draupadi laughing at Duryodhan, well, her name is not exclusively mentioned in that scene.

Even if she did laugh, she wasn't the only one. All the Pandavas (except Yidisthir) n some women laughed with her. So, it was wrong to "punish" or accuse her alone of just ONE peal of laughter.

One peal of laughter does not make a person "Adharmic".

As for calling Draupadi unchaste, well, Ved Vyas explained to Drupad, y the marriage was NOT "Adharm".

So, just bcoz, Drupad thought that the marriage would not be accepted, doesn't mean that anyone will call her unchaste. After all it was none of anyone's business that she had 5 husbands.

As for Jaydrath, I think it was Yudisthir who spared Jaydrath. N she accepted her husband's order, but then told Arjun n Bhim to kill Jaydrath in the war.

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Neutral2

@Neutral2

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Posted: 11 years ago

@amritat

Partiality is partiality even if it is in the name of custom. If Draupadi want an intercast marriage she should first give chance to karn. In the ved it is not mention that brahmin is an upper cast and sudra is a lower cast. All are equal. Only society make upper and lower cast. Cast is divided on their work not by status.

We all know that she chooses Arjun before the swayamver.

Secondly, if Draupadi is strict to custom/ society rule then she should not marry to 5 men. Obviously karn will taunt him.

But she did tapsaya to forget the memory of previous husband which wh**e wont do. At that time sex is only used to give birth to new life not for enjoyment. Hence in this regard she is superior to todays world one man woman.

For me even man marry more than one woman is equal to woman marry more than one man.

As per jaydrath case it was either draupadi or arjun who beg for his life. I am sure yudi is not.

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sanayabarunlove

@sanayabarunlove

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Posted: 11 years ago

Originally posted by: Neutral2
@amritat
Partiality is partiality even if it is in the name of custom. If Draupadi want an intercast marriage she should first give chance to karn. In the ved it is not mention that brahmin is an upper cast and sudra is a lower cast. All are equal. Only society make upper and lower cast. Cast is divided on their work not by status.
We all know that she chooses Arjun before the swayamver.

Secondly, if Draupadi is strict to custom/ society rule then she should not marry to 5 men. Obviously karn will taunt him.
But she did tapsaya to forget the memory of previous husband which wh**e wont do. At that time sex is only used to give birth to new life not for enjoyment. Hence in this regard she is superior to todays world one man woman.
For me even man marry more than one woman is equal to woman marry more than one man.

As per jaydrath case it was either draupadi or arjun who beg for his life. I am sure yudi is not.

My friend is right. When it comes to discussing dharma, we all have perspectives. And they change according to our favourite characters. It is quite clear you like Karna and we respect that.

Draupadi married Arjuna because no Kshatriya was able to complete the task. She rejected Karna because she as a woman didn't want to marry a man who held a lower caste. You mentioned in you own post that the swayamwar was held solely for Kshatriyas, if that was the case then your point that all castes are same is not valid. Then it should have been an open swayamwar, right?

And secondly, so what if she didn't want to marry Karna? For a mere statement, you cannot ask you friend to disrobe a woman. I don't intend to pick all the faults in Karna, but the vastraharan was mostly his provocation. Next, jayadrath was spared because yudhishtir asks his brothers to do so. Please get your facts right.

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amritat

@amritat

Sparkler

Posted: 11 years ago

Originally posted by: Neutral2
@amritat
Partiality is partiality even if it is in the name of custom. If Draupadi want an intercast marriage she should first give chance to karn. In the ved it is not mention that brahmin is an upper cast and sudra is a lower cast. All are equal. Only society make upper and lower cast. Cast is divided on their work not by status.

We all know that she chooses Arjun before the swayamver.

Secondly, if Draupadi is strict to custom/ society rule then she should not marry to 5 men. Obviously karn will taunt him.

But she did tapsaya to forget the memory of previous husband which wh**e wont do. At that time sex is only used to give birth to new life not for enjoyment. Hence in this regard she is superior to todays world one man woman.

For me even man marry more than one woman is equal to woman marry more than one man.

As per jaydrath case it was either draupadi or arjun who beg for his life. I am sure yudi is not.

Seems like you haven't read the epic.

Are u believing each and every thing shown in this serial?

Trust me...most of the facts shown in this serial is WRONG.

Draupadi did not know Arjun AT ALL.

Drupad never shared his desire to get Draupadi married to Arjun to anyone.

N Draupadi DID NOT know Arjun.

So, she was not partial.

She didn't know either of Arjun or Karna before her Swamvar.

Caste system was extremely rigid in those days. So, it is illogical to argue on this.

N Caste System is there in our religion.

I know that the concept is unfair.

But nonetheless, u are talking about a character that lived thousands of years ago, when every text supported Caste System. Go check, if u don't believe me.

And it WAS NOT Draupadi who thought of marrying the 5 Pandavas.

Whatever has been shown in the serial is WRONG.

It was Yudisthir, who declared that Draupadi will marry all 5. And Arjun agreed to this.

Besides, polyandry was not banned in Mahabharat period, like it is now.

Polyandry was uncommon, but NOT banned.

That is y, NO ONE, like Bhishm, Vidur, etc ever questioned her character.

Only Karna did.

No one ever questioned Draupadi's character in the epic.

Besides, Karna was the one who asked Dushasen to disrobe Draupadi.

It was not Duryodhan, as shown in the serial.

But it was Karna.

And it was Yudisthir, who spared Jaydrath.

Please read the epic. Don't believe a thing that is shown here.

The link to the REAL epic, is there in many threads.

Just read it and know what is right and what is not.

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Neutral2

@Neutral2

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Posted: 11 years ago

Originally posted by: sanayabarunlove

My friend is right. When it comes to discussing dharma, we all have perspectives. And they change according to our favourite characters. It is quite clear you like Karna and we respect that.
Draupadi married Arjuna because no Kshatriya was able to complete the task. She rejected Karna because she as a woman didn't want to marry a man who held a lower caste. You mentioned in you own post that the swayamwar was held solely for Kshatriyas, if that was the case then your point that all castes are same is not valid. Then it should have been an open swayamwar, right?

And secondly, so what if she didn't want to marry Karna? For a mere statement, you cannot ask you friend to disrobe a woman. I don't intend to pick all the faults in Karna, but the vastraharan was mostly his provocation. Next, jayadrath was spared because yudhishtir asks his brothers to do so. Please get your facts right.

Swayamwer is held for kshatriya because they want cast marriage. Even all kshatriya are not allowed. Only kings or princes are allowed.

If she is ready for intercast then karn was given first chance.

I admit that her choice matter but her justification that she would not marry a suta is wrong/partial.

She should held a choice ceramony.

Karn should never say to disrobe her. Even wh**e should not be treated like draupadi was treated. But draupadi was lawfully won by dury apart from shakuni magic dice.

Many time yudi taunt draupadi when she was unable to walk. I have said karn was equal dharmraj to yudi or slightly less. In one version draupadi said to karn that he get ang raajya in daan at swayamver. Who knows what happen because english version of ved vyas become short.

Yaa you are right yudi said not to kill jaydrath. Even he forgive keechak. But draupadi and bhim killed keechak. May be time and situation was different.

I have said draupadi was little bit partial. Thats the reason she fell down from hill.

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bunnylovessunny

@bunnylovessunny

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Posted: 11 years ago

Originally posted by: Neutral2

Swayamwer is held for kshatriya because they want cast marriage. Even all kshatriya are not allowed. Only kings or princes are allowed.
If she is ready for intercast then karn was given first chance.
I admit that her choice matter but her justification that she would not marry a suta is wrong/partial.
She should held a choice ceramony.

Karn should never say to disrobe her. Even wh**e should not be treated like draupadi was treated. But draupadi was lawfully won by dury apart from shakuni magic dice.
Many time yudi taunt draupadi when she was unable to walk. I have said karn was equal dharmraj to yudi or slightly less. In one version draupadi said to karn that he get ang raajya in daan at swayamver. Who knows what happen because english version of ved vyas become short.

Yaa you are right yudi said not to kill jaydrath. Even he forgive keechak. But draupadi and bhim killed keechak. May be time and situation was different.

I have said draupadi was little bit partial. Thats the reason she fell down from hill.

I disagree with you on the first part. Yes, Swayamvars were held for Kshatriyas. If you read the Telugu translation of Mahabharata by Nannaya bhattu, which is also considered one of the oldest translations, you'll see that Karna did take part in the swayamvar but he couldn't hit the target. Most other translations state that Draupadi or her brother did not let Karna participate because he was a suta putra.

You cannot justify that it was an 'adharm' she did when she rejected Karna based on his caste. She had the right to do so and she practised her right, stating she was not comfortable marrying a suta putra. Yes she was partial, so what? Brahmins held a higher stature than any other caste. No Kshatriya could win her so a Brahmin did. You cannot say she committed an adharm based on her choice to marry or in this case NOT marry someone.

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mnx12

@mnx12

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Posted: 11 years ago

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amritat

@amritat

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Posted: 11 years ago

#10

Originally posted by: Neutral2

Swayamwer is held for kshatriya because they want cast marriage. Even all kshatriya are not allowed. Only kings or princes are allowed.

If she is ready for intercast then karn was given first chance.

I admit that her choice matter but her justification that she would not marry a suta is wrong/partial.

She should held a choice ceramony.

Karn should never say to disrobe her. Even wh**e should not be treated like draupadi was treated. But draupadi was lawfully won by dury apart from shakuni magic dice.

Many time yudi taunt draupadi when she was unable to walk. I have said karn was equal dharmraj to yudi or slightly less. In one version draupadi said to karn that he get ang raajya in daan at swayamver. Who knows what happen because english version of ved vyas become short.

Yaa you are right yudi said not to kill jaydrath. Even he forgive keechak. But draupadi and bhim killed keechak. May be time and situation was different.

I have said draupadi was little bit partial. Thats the reason she fell down from hill.

Which version are u referring too?

Everyone in this forum, knows and agrees that it was Karna, who asked Dushasen to disrobe Draupadi. Check the epic.

As far as her Swamvar is concerned...

Her manner may have been wrong...

But the truth is women married only men of higher caste. Draupadi did not know about Karna's true lineage. So, she did what she thought was right.

Swamvars were intended for Kshatriyas. But no one could win the contest.

So, Brahmins were allowed.

Brahmins were not allowed initially.

N draupadi did not say such rubbish to Karna as "daan" and all that.

Even in the Sanskrit version, she said only one line:-

"I do not wish to marry a Sutaputra"

She did not say a word more than that.

You can check if u want.

And what are u talking about it?

Draupadi was lawfully won by Duryodhan?

Are u kidding?

They cheated in the game.