'Mahabharat- Different Versions -Perspectives'

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Posted: 11 years ago

Thank YOu Abhijet sir

what you said about bards changing the story to suit the ethics of the age rings a bell with me

I have been saying it for a while that we cannot consider one version as true or authentic because we do not know where it was based on and what age the base story was modified.

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AnuMP

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Posted: 11 years ago

#522

@abhijitbasu

Thank you sir. The political reasoning that you provided is very logical. I am aware of the bits about his extra appendages. But to forgive 99 heinous crimes like rape and then to give death penalty for a 100th minor insult was not quite digestible to me.

Edited by AnuMP - 11 years ago

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riti4u

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Posted: 11 years ago

#523

Originally posted by: charminggenie
Commencement on a fabulous thread.

I have a question , do different translations, perspectives end up being reflection of the society at that point specifically in terms of how an author perceives his/her characters?

Like for instance in the cases of Krishna and Karna. The latter more so, has his character became more popular or specifically presented as the "Tragic Hero" , because audience and society wants to root for a character who failed because of external compulsions than his own inner weaknesses.

@underlined- how does that define tragic hero just curious to know.. Tragic hero can have both external and internal factors to play upon. Inner weakenesses are attributed due to external compulsions as well. If I have certain behavior , that might be due to the environment i am brought up in or society around me must have attributed those characteristic in me.

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charminggenie

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Posted: 11 years ago

#524

Originally posted by: riti4u
the "Tragic Hero" , because audience and society wants to root for a character who failed because of external compulsions than his own inner weaknesses.

@underlined- how does that define tragic hero just curious to know.. Tragic hero can have both external and internal factors to play upon. Inner weakenesses are attributed due to external compulsions as well. If I have certain behavior , that might be due to the environment i am brought up in or society around me must have attributed those characteristic in me.

Ah what I meant is would an author and a reader be influenced in presenting/understanding a character as a Tragic Hero or anything else depending upon the society surrounding them. Say the earlier versions of Mahabharata and Ramayana were liberal with vocabulary when it came to describing women and their anatomy. Yet the subsequent translations have underplayed that element because of changing perspective of women in the society.

Subsequently the parameters of external and inner turmoil have varied from generation to generation. My question - the romanticization of Karna in the translations, can to some extend be attributed to readers or perhaps writers to of current times who look for a flawed hero . Karna was fabulous yet rather than playing his valor , it is always the injustice done to him that is brought out as a character trait. Does the common theme of " society injustice" makes him an the romanticized tragic hero of our generation? How do authors remove this commonality while writing a perspective , that is my point.

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Abhijit Basu

@abhijitbasu

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Posted: 11 years ago

#525

Originally posted by: charminggenie
Commencement on a fabulous thread.
I have a question , do different translations, perspectives end up being reflection of the society at that point specifically in terms of how an author perceives his/her characters?

Like for instance in the cases of Krishna and Karna. The latter more so, has his character became more popular or specifically presented as the "Tragic Hero" , because audience and society wants to root for a character who failed because of external compulsions than his own inner weaknesses.

Good points. Different versions of the MB at different times do perhaps carry some baggage of that age. In the older bard (soota) forms, it was basically a Warrior saga, sung as paean of heroic victory ('Jaya'). In later 'Bhrigu clan' versions, more and more devotional and didactic accretions happened. This is the Western scholarly view, which seems to have a certain merit, though one cannot think of MB without its subtle spiritual message of Krshna and the Gita.
As regards the Karna story, it is kind of unique within the gamut of the great epic. MB is a story of 'niyati' and 'kaal' - destiny and Time, whereas Ramayana is a story of Purushakara - of human efforts of Ram, Lakshman, Hanuman etc. Karna is the one great epitome of Purushakara in MB -- all his lifebeing a great tale of a man's heroic struggle against his destiny. These themes have been covered in greater detail in my book.

Edited by abhijitbasu - 11 years ago

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riti4u

@riti4u

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Posted: 11 years ago

#526

Originally posted by: charminggenie

@underlined- how does that define tragic hero just curious to know.. Tragic hero can have both external and internal factors to play upon. Inner weakenesses are attributed due to external compulsions as well. If I have certain behavior , that might be due to the environment i am brought up in or society around me must have attributed those characteristic in me.

Ah what I meant is would an author and a reader be influenced in presenting/understanding a character as a Tragic Hero or anything else depending upon the society surrounding them. Say the earlier versions of Mahabharata and Ramayana were liberal with vocabulary when it came to describing women and their anatomy. Yet the subsequent translations have underplayed that element because of changing perspective of women in the society.

Subsequently the parameters of external and inner turmoil have varied from generation to generation. My question - the romanticization of Karna in the translations, can to some extend be attributed to readers or perhaps writers to of current times who look for a flawed hero . Karna was fabulous yet rather than playing his valor , it is always the injustice done to him that is brought out as a character trait. Does the common theme of " society injustice" makes him an the romanticized tragic hero of our generation? How do authors remove this commonality while writing a perspective , that is my point.

Flawed hero attracts because they are very human. You can relate with them in their situations at time. There are certain behaviors which seem obvious because you would behave in that way in a certain situation ..not that behavior would be appropriate one.Having Jealousy or urge of respect from society is most common trait and can be found among us so easily.Even feeling of competion and just this urge of proving yourself to those who feel you are incapable. It is about how one reacts to situations given in life. What actually attracts strong opinions on Karna's character is that he is believable, his struggle for respect is similar struggle every person carries everyday. And it is his edgy nature which attracts both positive and negative traits which are debated intensively (like we are doing at different places😆) Similar thing is done regarding draupadi's character too - Injustice towards women always cloud our minds and evoke reactions when speaking of draupadi. It does affect a common or neutral viewpoint.

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riti4u

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Posted: 11 years ago

#527

Originally posted by: abhijitbasu

Good points. Different versions of the MB at different times do perhaps carry some baggage of that age. In the older bard (soota) forms, it was basically a Warrior saga, sung as paean of heroic victory ('Jaya'). In later 'Bhrigu clan' versions, more and more devotional and didactic accretions happened. This is the Western scholarly view, which seems to have a certain merit, though one cannot think of MB without its subtle spiritual message of Krshna and the Gita.
As regards the Karna story, it is kind of unique within the gamut of the great epic. MB is a story of 'niyati' and 'kaal' - destiny and Time, whereas Ramayana is a story of Purushakara - of human efforts of Ram, Lakshman, Hanuman etc. Karna is the one great epitome of Purushakara in MB -- all his lifebeing a great tale of a man's heroic struggle against his destiny. These themes have been covered in greater detail in my book.

Thanks for this . Will surely try to get my hands on your book😊

@bold- that is exactly what i feel too. But thanks for enlightening with these terms that i was not aware of.

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JazzyM

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Posted: 11 years ago

#528

@abhijitbasu

Thank you so much for being part of the forum and explaining whenever necessary. Being a foreigner with very limited knowledge of MB, I have been very confused with the different folklores being presented by different writers. I have young children and siblings hooked on this serial, they ask zillion questions. I want to present the scenarios as factual as possible but I think it's an impossible task. At least now, I can go back and tell them how and why different people have influenced the story telling of MB.

I guess, just like all myths, MB too is seen in different perspectives to sooth the need and purpose of the each story teller.

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naq5

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Posted: 11 years ago

#529

Originally posted by: AnuMP
@abhijitbasu

Thank you sir. The political reasoning that you provided is very logical. I am aware of the bits about his extra appendages. But to forgive 99 heinous crimes like rape and then to give death penalty for a 100th minor insult was not quite digestible to me.

he could have been killed after the 99 heinous crimes if it had been for the promise given to his mother. krishna knew that he was going to commit that 100th blunder too he was only waiting for it

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Ashwini_D

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Posted: 11 years ago

#530

@ abhijitbasu

First of all, it is great to have you here on this forum Sir.

Mahabharata is filled with fascinating characters, but one that I find most interesting is Yudisthir, who might come across as bland and insipid at first with just a cursory reading of the epic, but (I think he) is as layered a character as anybody else. Deemed as Dharmaraj, he seems to have a weakness for dice. He is also central to the plot as the text follows his growth as a person till the very end and it is his victory over earthly attachment that is celebrated at the end. All of us on this forum have tried dissecting his behaviour ad nauseam, especially during the dice game, which is quite baffling to our modern sensibilities. He is supposed to be Dharmaraj, but he seems to slip up during that fateful day, completely losing control of his rational faculties and appears to momentarily forget his dharma, of which he is considered to be an expert. Of course we might be unaware of certain moral codes that were prevalent during those times and hence drawing a judgement based on present day value systems would prove fallacious.

I would be grateful if you could share your thoughts on him.

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'Mahabharat- Different Versions -Perspectives' - Page 53

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