{| Doubts and Discussions about Mahabharata |} - Page 40

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varaali thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago

Originally posted by: Xarina

I wonder about lineage. Ambika and Ambilika may have given birth to sons but were they the rightful heirs of Hastinapur? How in the absence of a monarch was Hastinapur not invaded by other kings during that time? Beeshma may have been protector and warrior but he was not king.

Finally, did Gandari give birth to a tumour? As I previously stated please excuse my ignorance. They are just random questions that enter my head. If it is any consolation I query all religions too.


You are welcome to ask as many questions as you like- provided you accept that the standards prevalent in Dwapara Yuga were far different from those present now.

Now coming to your first question- Whether the sons of A & A were the legitimate heirs to the throne of Hastinapura?

The answer is YES. The process adopted by A & A (Niyoga) was a sacred rite and the rules were laid down by Swayambhu Manu himself. It was understood that the son born of such a union would be a considered the legal heir of the deceased husband (in this case Vichitravirya) - and hence would be the rightful heir to the throne as well.

There was nothing hush hush about niyoga. It was not as if A & A had a secret rendezvous with someone and became pregnant as a consequence.

It was common knowledge that - in order to continue the linage and ensure that the throne of Hastinapura does not fall vacant,- A & A had performed Niyoga with Veda Vyasa. Whilst the biological father may have been Veda Vyasa, the legal and social father was Vichitravirya.

varaali thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago

Originally posted by: .Vrish.

I have another question about the succession laws. If a King died, who was next in line to the throne - his son, or brother? Did it follow the British model, where it would be (barring daughters) the king's eldest son, then all others, then the king's brother and so on?

Like in this case, would it have been Dhritarashtra, Duryodhan..., Pandu, Yudhisthir, Bhima, Arjun, Nakul, Sahadev (had Dhritarashtra not been born blind?)


Succession laws changed over a period of time. Manu Dharmashastra and Kautilya's Arthashastra do talk extensively on succession- but I don't recollect the whole set of laws right now.

We can only go by what was practiced and even then, the actual practice varied from the theory.

AFAIK, when a king died, his eldest son (if his upanayanam had been performed and had completed some years of study, at least) would inherit the throne.

In case the son was still a minor, the king's brother may ascend the throne but- and this is where it differs from the British model- once the original king's son attains maturity, he would have be instated as the Crown Prince. The crown reverts back to the descendants of the original king. The brother's son does not come anywhere in the picture.

But the rules are unclear when a king abdicates the throne. What happens to his sons? It depended whether they were born before or after the abdication- but I am not sure. I have to look up.

As I said, whilst this may have been the rule, in actual practice it was more often than not flouted.




bhas1066 thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago

Originally posted by: varaali


Succession laws changed over a period of time. Manu Dharmashastra and Kautilya's Arthashastra do talk extensively on succession- but I don't recollect the whole set of laws right now.

We can only go by what was practiced and even then, the actual practice varied from the theory.

AFAIK, when a king died, his eldest son (if his upanayanam had been performed and had completed some years of study, at least) would inherit the throne.

In case the son was still a minor, the king's brother may ascend the throne but- and this is where it differs from the British model- once the original king's son attains maturity, he would have be instated as the Crown Prince. The crown reverts back to the descendants of the original king. The brother's son does not come anywhere in the picture.

But the rules are unclear when a king abdicates the throne. What happens to his sons? It depended whether they were born before or after the abdication- but I am not sure. I have to look up.

As I said, whilst this may have been the rule, in actual practice it was more often than not flouted.







The rule of the eldest son getting the throne was broken by yayati when he installed his youngest son puru on the throne whose descendant was shantanu.
varaali thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
^^^^ That was by choice.
A ruler, in his lifetime, had the authority to appoint who so ever he wishes as his successor. Vrish's question was who would succeed a king after his death, in case there was no yuvaraja already appointed by the deceased king.
Proud-India thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
Any unheard story from MB but unique & Never shown on screen...Some interesting facts then please share 😊
maha2us thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
The rule of succession to the throne is an interesting topic. A general rule or I will prefer to say a convention was the eldest son becomes the successor to the throne. I guess this is more so based on common sense. There is one reason the eldest son is to succeed a present king. The king is a person who has to command respect of all others including his brothers. Suppose the younger son becomes the king, how will his elder brother feel to be the courtier of the king? Can you answer whether the elder brother be comfortable? How will the elder brother feel if the younger brother orders him? It is quite possible the elder brother can expect the younger brother to respect him. The younger brother won't feel safe as a king when the capable elder brother is there active in the kingdom and decide some way to kill the elder brother. How Yayati managed to get Puru succeed the throne is its own story. Probably Puru could ward of the challenges by Yadu and others.
Of course if the eldest son is a very bad person or he has serious disability the younger brother definitely succeeds the throne.

Was Dhritharashtra fit to be the king? What are the good qualities you look for in a leader? The leader has to be a visionary and a far-sighted person. He is to see far into the future. He has to have good imagination and insight. The words 'visionary', 'far-sighted', 'imagination' and 'insight' point to seeing. Dhrit could not see which makes him unfit to be king. Or was it OK to make Dhrit figurehead king.
lovesunshine thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago

Originally posted by: Proud-India

Any unheard story from MB but unique & Never shown on screen...Some interesting facts then please share 😊

Here you go

This is an untold story' from Mahabharat, published in a Sanskrit Magazine, many years ago. It goes like this:

Duryodhan is lying in the battle field, awaiting death, badly bruised by the wounds inflicted by Bhima. He kept his three fingers in a raised position and is unable to speak. All the efforts made by his men to understand the meaning proved to be futile.

Seeing his plight Krishna approached him and said "I know what issues occupied your mind. I will address them".

He clarified that the issues are

a) not building a fort around his capital city,

b) not persuading Vidur to participate in the battle

c) not making Aswathama as commander-in-chief after the death of Dronacharya.

Krishna explained further that (a) Assuming that you built a fort, I would have asked Nakul to mount the horse and destroy the fort, (b) If you succeeded in persuading Vidur to participate in the battle, I would have taken the Sudarshan Chakra myself to defeat him, and (c) If Aswathama is made the commander-in-chief, I would have made Yudhistir angry.

On hearing this Duryodhan closed all the fingers and within seconds he left his body.

Let me explain a little further. Many of us do not know that Nakul can drive his horse even in heavy rain without getting wet. He travels with such a speed between a drop and another drop, without getting wet. Only Nakul can do this among Kaurav and Pandav warriors. It also seems that if Yudhistir gets angry, everything that falls within the range of his eye sight will be burnt.

Management Lesson: Properly estimate the plans of the enemy and prepare for a counter attack well in advance like Krishna.


link : http://toostep.com/insight/the-untold-story


Vr15h thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago

Originally posted by: maha2us

The rule of succession to the throne is an interesting topic. A general rule or I will prefer to say a convention was the eldest son becomes the successor to the throne. I guess this is more so based on common sense. There is one reason the eldest son is to succeed a present king. The king is a person who has to command respect of all others including his brothers. Suppose the younger son becomes the king, how will his elder brother feel to be the courtier of the king? Can you answer whether the elder brother be comfortable? How will the elder brother feel if the younger brother orders him? It is quite possible the elder brother can expect the younger brother to respect him. The younger brother won't feel safe as a king when the capable elder brother is there active in the kingdom and decide some way to kill the elder brother. How Yayati managed to get Puru succeed the throne is its own story. Probably Puru could ward of the challenges by Yadu and others.

Of course if the eldest son is a very bad person or he has serious disability the younger brother definitely succeeds the throne.


Within the Chandravansh, how then did Balarama feel while Krishna was driving all the decisions, and whenever there was disagreement b/w them, Krishna still prevailed?

Maybe Yudhisthir should have been subordinate to Bhima 😆😈
413226 thumbnail
Posted: 11 years ago

Originally posted by: .Vrish.


Within the Chandravansh, how then did Balarama feel while Krishna was driving all the decisions, and whenever there was disagreement b/w them, Krishna still prevailed?

Maybe Yudhisthir should have been subordinate to Bhima 😆😈

Making the eldest son the king for the reasons stated indicates pandering to human ego instead of merit based . Ideally the ablest person should be the leader/king. If the eldest isnt able enough and the younger decides to challenge him the elder would lose anyway. Respect is something he would have to earn. Birth order does not always guarantee respect by youngers.
King Bharat believed in appointing the best person to the top job but the later kings did not seem to have kept up that tradition for long. The power and glory that comes with the title would be too tempting to resist 😉
maha2us thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
@Vrish: Krishna-Balarama relationship has its own enigmas. But Krishna was omniscient and could show Viswaroopa. Could Balarama do that? Balarama had his own supernatural powers. But based on whatever we see in the epic, at times we see him more credulous. I still can't understand why he had soft corner for Duryodhana.
As far Yudhistira-Bhima relationship, Yudhi had his own capabilities. Bhima had his raw strength. But where did it go when Nahusha overpowered him? Yudhi rescued him. Yudhi rescued Bhima also in the enchanted lake. There could be thus many incidents based on which Bhima learned Yudhi deserved to be respected. Yudhi firmly told Yaksha, he is protected by dharma only and not by the capabilities of Bhima or Arjuna.

@Peridot: Yes, the respect is something one has to earn. But in no way, the younger person could expect the elder person to respect him. Definitely there are cases the younger person has become the king. But in those cases, the elder has either expressed no interest in the throne or the elder is killed.

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