Please try to answer - Page 13

accha, isse pehle koi isko chat club samajhle, I have a question

when Krishna was telling Bhagwat Gita to Arjun at that time Sanjay, Dhritrashtra and I think 1-2 more people heard that, so why we give credit to Arjun only?

I know that people say that BG was an interpolation but

if we don't consider Gita to be an interpolation then I am asking

Areh we've all made such faux pas, it's nothing to be embarrassed by

Originally posted by: IWasHareeshFan

accha, isse pehle koi isko chat club samajhle, I have a question

when Krishna was telling Bhagwat Gita to Arjun at that time Sanjay, Dhritrashtra and I think 1-2 more people heard that, so why we give credit to Arjun only?

I know that people say that BG was an interpolation but

if we don't consider Gita to be an interpolation then I am asking

I would think this is because Arjun was the only one actively participating in the discussion and asking questions. Sanjay was only reporting it, and Dhritarashtra just heard about it.

Originally posted by: wayward

I would think this is because Arjun was the only one actively participating in the discussion and asking questions. Sanjay was only reporting it, and Dhritarashtra just heard about it.

and what about Vishva swaroop? Sanjay saw that naa?

accha we know that Sanjay had some kind of vision but people say that Sanjay was their on the field, so how was he narrating the entire thing to Dhrit?

Originally posted by: wayward

Areh we've all made such faux pas, it's nothing to be embarrassed by

Actually this happened just 3-4 months a go, so people must be thinking ki itni badi hogai aur kuch pata nahi hai.

Originally posted by: IWasHareeshFan

and what about Vishva swaroop? Sanjay saw that naa?

accha we know that Sanjay had some kind of vision but people say that Sanjay was their on the field, so how was he narrating the entire thing to Dhrit?

See, this whole part is full-on magical so I am also confused myself.

For the sake of discussion, I'd put it as something Sanjay might've heard Krishna-Arjun discussing, as in either of them describing the vishwaroop in real time, or just reminiscing later, and that was what he reported to Dhritu.

That part could also be Vyasa's own addition, MB was a dramatization in any case.

About the ambiguity of his position, maybe Sanjay was daily commuting?

Originally posted by: IWasHareeshFan

Actually this happened just 3-4 months a go, so people must be thinking ki itni badi hogai aur kuch pata nahi hai.

See most of our mother tongues are different from English, toh the fact that we speak it, is an achievement in its own right. So, just because you are catching up with SOME aspects of the language now, is nothing to be conscious about!

Originally posted by: IWasHareeshFan

accha we know that Sanjay had some kind of vision but people say that Sanjay was their on the field, so how was he narrating the entire thing to Dhrit?

This was Vyāsa's blessing to Saṃjaya (Bhīṣmaparvan 2.9-12): nothing on the battlefield will be hidden from him; he will have divine sight and know everything, overt or covert, by night or by day; even plans in the mind will be known to Saṃjaya. Weapons won't pierce him and fatigue won't bother him; Gāvalgaṇi will escape the battle alive.

Although TV versions like to show Saṃjaya narrating events to Dhṛtarāṣṭra in real time, sitting in front of a TV screen, the text of Mahābhārata tells us (Bhīṣmaparvan 14.1-13) that Saṃjaya returned from the battlefield for the first time to report to Dhṛtarāṣṭra that Bhīṣma had been felled after ten days of battle. Saṃjaya ended this report with Bhīṣma feeling thirsty at dawn on the eleventh day. Then Saṃjaya returned from the battle camp to Hāstinapura on the fifteenth night (Droṇaparvan 1.7) to report that Droṇa was slain, and again, carried by wind-fleet horses, on the seventeenth night (Karṇaparvan 1.25) to report the fall of Karṇa. On the eighteenth day, Saṃjaya fainted while fighting with Yuyudhāna and was captured alive (Śalyaparvan 24.51). He reported to Dhṛtarāṣṭra in the forenoon of the nineteenth day (Śalyaparvan 1.14).

Originally posted by: BrhannadaArmour

First of all sorry for replying so late.

This was Vyāsa's blessing to Saṃjaya (Bhīṣmaparvan 2.9-12): nothing on the battlefield will be hidden from him; he will have divine sight and know everything, overt or covert, by night or by day; even plans in the mind will be known to Saṃjaya. Weapons won't pierce him and fatigue won't bother him;

Can someone give me such a boon, I mean it is so cool to know what's there in others mind.

Although TV versions like to show Saṃjaya narrating events to Dhṛtarāṣṭra in real time

Actually I am not familiar with the war part, I mean I have read Mb 1.5 times (I left the half part midway) but I skipped the war part, so don't have much knowledge, however, I am thinking to read the wr sections as well, but yes, even I have hurd Sanjay reporting the war field.

But tell me something, if Sanjay had to go to the field everytime toh why did Rishi Vyasa gave that boon to him? he could have just seen everything and told Dhrit

Also when he could even know that what others are thinking toh why did he not tell their plans to Dhrit? Dhrit would have easily sent a messenger and alerted his sons, I get confused here.

I mean if we consider both the facts that Rishi Vyasa gave Sanjay a boon+we also consider this fact that he visited the war field, toh how can we make the connection here?

Originally posted by: wayward

Sorry for replying so late, actually I thought to reply but could not, then India lost the match and then something or the other was coming up.

For the sake of discussion, I'd put it as something Sanjay might've heard Krishna-Arjun discussing, as in either of them describing the vishwaroop in real time, or just reminiscing later, and that was what he reported to Dhritu.

May be, but could Bhisham and Duryodhan etc hear that description? If yes, then toh its understood, but nothing is mentioned, if no, toh iska matlab was Sanjay eavesdropping? But then how did both of them not realize, may be they were lost.

About the ambiguity of his position, maybe Sanjay was daily commuting?

If this was the case then it would have been so difficult, I mean daily going from Hastinapur to Kurukshetra and then again back from Kurukshetra to Hastinapur, the man would have been so worked up by the end of the day, on top of that I am assuming that he had to clear a long long viva conducted by Dhrit.

I think Saṃjaya was a warrior first and foremost. He didn't aspire to be a journalist; that role was assigned to him by Vyāsa without asking, and Saṃjaya didn't feel the need to report to Dhṛtarāṣṭra unless and until their army lost its commander. It didn't occur to Saṃjaya to sit in Hāstinapura and watch the war when his dharma as a sūta was to be actively involved.

In contrast with Karṇa, who refused to fight for ten days, and didn't advise battle strategy, but didn't go anywhere, Saṃjaya was fighting all day, attending meetings at night, and carving out time to visit Dhṛtarāṣṭra.

You asked, why didn't Saṃjaya read enemy minds so that Dhṛtarāṣṭra could have sent a messenger to warn Duryodhana? I ask, why not cut out the middleman Dhṛtarāṣṭra? Saṃjaya could have reported to Duryodhana that Kṛṣṇa will make sure Jayadratha's head falls in Vṛddhakṣatra's lap ... Ghaṭotkaca is a gambit ... the Pāṇḍavas are planning to lie to Droṇa, etc. That could have changed the outcome of the war.

Maybe characters like Dhṛtarāṣṭra and Saṃjaya had rigid views about spying: royals like Kuntī and Bhīṣma employed professional spies, maybe brāhmaṇas who lived off charity, and warriors weren't supposed to do that work.