Naku and AS confrontation! - Page 7

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gp00 thumbnail
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Posted: 14 years ago
#61

Originally posted by: SAraW

@ DD


one thing i forgot to mention! My thoughts has nothing to do with someone coming from the show .. My thoughts would have remained the same ! infact i had pointed out abt these complexities before as well .. when we had no one from the show trying to prove and explain us the dynamics of the show..




Agreed, Sara.😃 But there are definitely some things that you could not, or anybody for that matter, have read into it, if it hadn't been for Adi. There is complexity in Naku for sure, just like everyone else. But there is something to be said for reading tooo much into a character to justify things onscreen.
Edited by gp00 - 14 years ago
amor284 thumbnail
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Posted: 14 years ago
#62

Originally posted by: gp00

Please take my comments in the spirit they are written--not to antagonize but to question and to push the envelope in terms of our thinking of the characters and show.😃


Ok, again, the conversation leads down the same line--how everything can be explained away with some hindsight psychology. Some rationalization. How we have failed to understand the characters.

After reading this post, which is remarkably similar to many others we've had questioning things the show is doing, I had the following thought: A GOOD show is a show that within its 1/2 hour or 1 hour or whatever can FULLY CAPTURE the characters insides, outsides...everything. It can do this in one episode, two, or it may take months. It is where things make sense..the rhythm makes sense. It doesn't have to be perfect. Occasional liberties have to be taken.

Having said that, when you are seeing that don't make sense and have to rely on someone who works on the show to explain it, then there is a problem with the show. There is something that is not translating to on-screen. We are lucky that Adi has been so good about explaining things from her perspective, and addressing our criticisms.🤗

"Idle viewing", whatever that means, is what TV is for. It is there to also get you to think, to accept, to question, etc. Take ART, or LITERATURE, or MUSIC. Any form of expression. You develop a reaction to it, a feel of it, an opinion, a learning that is of your own creation. You do not just accept an "official" explanation of it.

There is NO manual at the bottom of the TV screen, or next to a painting, explaining characters--we use our standards, experiences, values in judging them. Viewers do NOT and should NOT need someone to explain the "official" psychology of a character. If it is not coming through on the screen in the character's words, actions, expressions, then something is WRONG.

As I mentioned, one of the things about TV is that it gets you to think, to question. And that is completely valid, because if I'm questioning it, then there are many others (including those at kitty parties😆) to whom the same or similar questions/thoughts occurred. Perhaps I am misunderstanding the comment on idle viewership. But I have to ask, how is my questioning a form of IDLE VIEWERSHIP? Idle viewership is when you accept everything you see and say of course it has a reason, of course it's right, it's genius! Is it idle because I do not understand or accept the "official" version

I could be wrong here, but I think, when viewers question a character's goodness, it is active involvement in the show. So when I say Naku is a liar, she is. Not because I'm ignoring her psychology or her background. It is because, at the end of the day, lying is something most people try to understand on some level (maybe it's because she is scared, hell I'm scared of losing things too), but will NEVER forgive, especially if taken too far and especially when too many chances have come and gone to redeem yourself with the truth. That is why I am so shocked at how we repeatedly excuse Naku's behavior. Poor girl, boo hoo, came from the slums. You can only rely on that excuse for so long. Arre, it would be a field day for defense attorneys if we judged people completely by the excuses or explanations.

And that is how I feel about Naku. I could say, psychology tells me that because of her impoverished background and Mommie Dearest making decisions, she has NO CLUE about what is RIGHT and WRONG, LYING or NOT LYING, she suffers from DECISION PARALYSIS. Let me throw some more psychological terms in there: she has PTSD because of More, poor self-esteem, passive-aggressive issues (sometimes sherni/sometimes not)...I could go on. Hence, we can't blame her. We have to understand and still respect her. Are you serious???? A woman who can judge Anna's actions (how do I know Anna didn't have a tough life, explaining his need for power?), everybody's actions (inclding the drinking, the gussa), and has that insightful gut feeling about people we all talk about, YET SHE DOES NOT KNOW RIGHT OR WRONG? If she can tell that Anna is bad, Subbhu is good, DP seems good...well she does know what is good and bad. And, we are all scared of losing the ones and things we love, but at some point she should have mustered up the courage to say the truth.

Perhaps I am missing the boat here, but I really feel strongly about how the show has handled the Naku character.



Hey Parul!
You of course have all valid reasons to feel disconnected with a show/scene/character at any point in time - not everything that every human does can match with our personal value systems! 😊 And your analysis of Nakusha's character is absolutely right from the point of psychology 😊 Perfect!
But, only that, I do not give any "official" explanations from the show or on behalf of anyone. 😊 Whatever I say is what I feel about the characters from a completely personal point of view. I do not expect anyone to toe my line of thinking nor do I intend to convince anyone. This is just a lovely platform to be able to learn the various perspectives from different individuals to "one" situation and it is a really great way to be able to also see things from another viewpoint and I just enjoy being a part of these discussions 😊 In fact, there are people here who at times convey exactly what is on my mind and then I don't even have better words to put across what I have to say - so please do not take my insights as an explanation on behalf of anyone - that would be the last reason for me to ever log on to this website! 😊
Yes, I did say I am playing the Devil's advocate on this thread, but that was not because I was doing any damage control "officially"! 😊 I don't need to do that - how the viewers perceive the show is completely their take. The motivations for people to watch a show are different (here i mean this lovely forum as well as those who are unaware of the existence of this forum) - some watch for the actors, some for the characters, some for the story, some for the essence of the concept - and it is not at all possible to appease all these different takers at one time - at any point in time, three of the five groups will be disconnected. What matters is that the makers of the show should not lose the essence of the concept 😊 Those who are discerning of the characters and are deeply involved with the show will always, always enjoy it more than those who watch it to get through the evening. And, the loyal viewers are always those who really understand the depth and the meaning behind the show - so that is something the makers are always prepared for!

I did enjoy your perspective of Nakusha - yes, she does suffer from Decision Paralysis when it comes to her own life - and trust me, 95% of this world will suffer from that same condition when faced with a similar situation, regardless of what background they come from and who they have on their side or not - and those who have been through such situations would definitely agree with me. The other 5% of the courageous and really, really brave lot are indeed exceptional and I would any day bow to their skills in making a decision! 😊 Sadly, Nakusha belongs to the 95% of the people - a very, very ordinary soul. And no Parul, you do not have to like her at all until she speaks the truth or gets confronted for it 😆

Take care,
Love,
adi
ImmaculateDream thumbnail
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Posted: 14 years ago
#63

Originally posted by: gp00


Agreed, Sara.😃 But there are definitely some things that you could not, or anybody for that matter, have read into it, if it hadn't been for Adi. There is complexity in Naku for sure, just like everyone else. But there is something to be said for reading tooo much into a character to justify things onscreen.


U mean whatever i have said abt Nakusha in my previous post is all because I was influenced by Adi and her posts gave me some new sight to look into her character???? 😕.. I wish that would have been the case, cause i would be the happiest person to be so easily influenced by some one .. I quote her because we were thinking on the same lines.. . thats it..

I cant say abt others though ...
amor284 thumbnail
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Posted: 14 years ago
#64
gp00 thumbnail
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Posted: 14 years ago
#65
Hi Adi,

Thank you for writing back. I know my post was not the most pleasantly worded, but I do hope you understand where I was coming from.

I owe you an explanation on the use of "official". I mentioned in the post that you've been kind to share YOUR perspective on the show. You have insight and background into the characters--all the discussions that have gone on about their development, emotions, etc.--that we could not possibly have even begun to fathom. That is what I meant by "official". That there is behind the characters, other workings going on. Rationales, objectives, stories to tell, etc.
So I am soooo sorry if I offended you in any shape or form. I feel really badly about it.

It sometimes seems to me we have to camps:
Like and accept everything Naku does as having a good reason
OR
Question her actions

It's all interpretation, I guess. But, I agree, Naku is average, like all of us in her situation and uncertainty. But, you know, sometimes I feel we put Naku on a pedestal, as this virtuous, 100% kind, gentle soul, who only loves Dutta, lives and breathes for Dutta, who is capable of only good things, is a sherni, standing up for right and fighting the wrongs, who has been victimized in life....yet, she can do such a wrong thing to someone she loves. And in the meantime, use every excuse in the book. I guess that is where the complexity comes in, as you and Sara mention.

So, again dear friend, I am soooo sorry if I offended or hurt you in any way. We are so lucky to have you here, even when playing Devil's Advocate!🤗

Edited by gp00 - 14 years ago
Dancingdoll thumbnail
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Posted: 14 years ago
#66
Okie guys.....
There is nothing personal here...As Parul has stated...there are two camps....Not everyoen agrees with Naku and her recent character sketch...Many of us have put on her shoes, agreed to some reactions and not agreed to others....So, yes, we are not all convinced about every reaction!!
Having said that, Adi's inputs has helped us a lot in getting to understand each and every character in depth!!....I personally, have changed my opinion about some scenes and for some, i still could not see why naku reacted the way she did....
Also, If I may add, I somehow find Parul like an ideal viewer, who gets a particular, "feeling" from the scene and that becomes her taker...thats how a common man reacts and sticks to it....They dont change their opinion like I did in some cases...If I wasnt on this forum, my initial reaction would have stayed with me, making me disconnect!!!....Hence, I do feel CVs should take care of that aspect!!!...
So, All in all, We have two camps...both of them are strong....people so keep switching between the two as and when Naku's reaction and characterization changes!!!.....And we all have rights to be part of any camp at any time.....This is natural....As we said yesterday....Sometime we play like Double partners and sometimes we are on the opposite side...part and parcel of being an Indian TV viewer!!....
So, Now...we would close this topic here, leave Naku to her defenses and her mindset and concentrate on how to kill DP and Babi, just for today and probably tomorrow!! 🤣🤣🤣..
Thanks a lot Parul, Adi, Sara, Vandu, Shishma, Mussy.....for different perspectives!!!....I loved the discussion...Even though I was uncomfortable, I liked the fact that many shared my discomfort and I loved the fact that few didnt because I want everyone to keep loving LTL and keep being connected to it.....
So, I love u all!!!.....
And no hard feelings...Everyone WAS RIGHT!! No apologies here pls!!! This wouldnr be condusive if we cannot express our opinion....🤗
So, Kodak smile pls!!! 😃
Edited by Dancingdoll - 14 years ago
gp00 thumbnail
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Posted: 14 years ago
#67

Originally posted by: SAraW

@ parul


interesting as ever ...

Well ... like i mentioned in my post.. Nakusha is lying! which was making me uncomfortable as well. But If she would have think of her self "right" then i might have taken a back ... But here nakusha knows! abt herself being wrong! but the question here is not abt whether she is right or Wrong!

the thing is How much It will affect dutta now??? will he be able to digest this fact? will he be able to overcome it?? will this mark an end of Their relationship???

A person can never be perfect! like u urself mentioned... neither is any narrative .. hazaar main say 10 kharay honge against!

and i dont think Dutta and Nakusha has to be RIGHT on every step in their life .. Even we tend to take wrong decisions! it depends upon out stamina.. of dealing different people with different emotions!

yah some ppl do find such emotional complexities stupid.. and rubbishes them off.. while some dont...

With these characters... Even if they take a wrong decision they will eventually learn with time ... Nakusha was never shown as someone taking up her own decisions.. her"Ay" is her influence! no matter how much lame we find babi .. but she is nakusha's mother.. even i find my friends mother annoying at times.. as she had chosen a life for her which has destroyed her.. But she at the same time It gave her courage to cope up from such miserable life as well... So life is hell complicated!
babi wanted to Save her daughter Even now! yah we dont like her methods that is another thing..

And As for audience..Sab plate main saja ker paish kernay ka kya faida?? some things are left for viewers to imagine... as they are working on a daily soap its not easy to answer and explain every minor details in this way they get some more liberty to fill in the gaps

...I guess we should think beyond of the routine dynamics we use to get on tv these days... If they consider abt Masses .. then i tell u majority of them wants To see "beautiful nakusha" and are dying to seee some physical proximity between the two rather then what we are getting these days..






Thanks Sara. You are right about the complexities, and yes, they have to be there, as the characters are people. Believe it or not, I do breathe in these complexities--it's inherent in everyone and everything. Unfortunately, I wind up coughing with some of them...they just don't sit well with me. My lungs react.😆
The point you mention on LTL pursuing this vs. the mass appeal direction (beautiful Naku, SR) is completely right. I do appreciate LTL for focusing on its characters more and then getting them to certain endpoints, if you could call it that. However, I think you know, that for me Naku is just a person of shades of gray at times. I do not always feel positive about her, especially these days. For whatever reason, I felt like Naku's story was interrupted and changed to accomodate other things, and it has made her less likable. Notice I did not say NOT likable, but just less likable.😆
Edited by gp00 - 14 years ago
amor284 thumbnail
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Posted: 14 years ago
#68

Originally posted by: gp00

Hi Adi,


Thank you for writing back. I know my post was not the most pleasantly worded, but I do hope you understand where I was coming from.

I owe you an explanation on the use of "official". I mentioned in the post that you've been kind to share YOUR perspective on the show. You have insight and background into the characters--all the discussions that have gone on about their development, emotions, etc.--that we could not possibly have even begun to fathom. That is what I meant by "official". That there is behind the characters, other workings going on. Rationales, objectives, stories to tell, etc.
So I am soooo sorry if I offended you in any shape or form. I feel really badly about it.

It sometimes seems to me we have to camps:
Like and accept everything Naku does as having a good reason
OR
Question her actions

It's all interpretation, I guess. But, I agree, Naku is average, like all of us in her situation and uncertainty. But, you know, sometimes I feel we put Naku on a pedestal, as this virtuous, 100% kind, gentle soul, who only loves Dutta, lives and breathes for Dutta, who is capable of only good things, is a sherni, standing up for right and fighting the wrongs, who has been victimized in life....yet, she can do such a wrong thing to someone she loves. And in the meantime, use every excuse in the book. I guess that is where the complexity comes in, as you and Sara mention.

So, again dear friend, I am soooo sorry if I offended or hurt you in any way. We are so lucky to have you here, even when playing Devil's Advocate!🤗



Hey Parul! You do not need to say sorry for the post at all... like I said, I love reading all interpretations, thoughts and comments - regardless of whether they share my thoughts or not.. We are all different and our perceptions are bound to be different. I completely understand that! Trust me!
Well, I don't agree with you when you say that it is because of my insight and background into the characters that people on this forum have begun understanding the characters better! Not at all. I don't know all names as I read posts and just enjoy them, but I can still count a few and sorry to all those whose names i miss here - but Anu, DD, Sara, Fivr, Nazia, Aisha, Ruby, Vandu, Jyoe and you yourself along with several, several others have great perspectives - often beating me to sharing my thoughts first. They say exactly what i would and in lesser words 😆, which means better comprehension! I have been reading this forum since almost the beginning and it began to really become interesting since June and I finally joined the forum in August - only because I was attracted to how well the characters were being perceived by so many people, exactly how they were perhaps written to be perceived! My sharing my thoughts is only because I am encouraged by all these fantastic people to do so!

No, there are no camps honey! i don't feel so. It is just that like you said, Naku has been put on a pedestal where she is being judged (you guys are making her go through an agnipareeksha even bfore Dutta gets the chance 😆). She is virtuous, 100% kind, gentle soul, who only loves Dutta, lives and breathes for Dutta, who is capable of only good things, is a sherni, standing up for right and fighting the wrongs, who has been victimized in life.. Exactly! that brings her on a pedestal where she is bound to be judged. But honey, it does not make her a superwoman. She is not a character from those decade old soaps where the woman was always right - she is made imperfect to be real! No one can be perfect and there is no one who you can always love. We all get irritated with our most beloved people for their shortcomings!

Again, I do not think she is "doing a wrong thing to someone she loves" - No! Yes, her mistake is that she has to let out one secret. But remember, being silent cannot be construed as a "lie". It is not that she has been asked about her colour and she has lied! She has not yet come out with a fact that the man DOES NOT know! Technically, she is not lying but yes, this is one test she must undergo before he does - of speaking her own truth. And, I can tell you - that situation she is in, is unenviable - it is like watching cricket in your living room and deciding how badly a batsman judged a ball! When you are actually out there, you'd perhaps not even push the ball up in the air to be caught - it could directly make your middle stump fly! 😊

Well, I am just lucky to be interacting with a very warm bunch!
Thank you so much and no, no hard feelings at all... please don't think that way! 🤗
Love,
Adi
gp00 thumbnail
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Posted: 14 years ago
#69

Originally posted by: SAraW


U mean whatever i have said abt Nakusha in my previous post is all because I was influenced by Adi and her posts gave me some new sight to look into her character???? 😕.. I wish that would have been the case, cause i would be the happiest person to be so easily influenced by some one .. I quote her because we were thinking on the same lines.. . thats it..

I cant say abt others though ...


No Sara, not at all. **GP pulls at her ear lobes...Maafi, please**

You have an understanding of the characters and an openness to them, that arises from you yourself and your insights...it's what you take in and understand. Not other people's comments. What I was saying is that there are some things that Adi has enabled all of us to think about and use to further our understanding or opinions of the characters, including Nakusha. And I totally understand that your comments mirror closely those of Adi, because of your own understanding of the characters and that you share similar thoughts, just as I share similar thoughts with others.

I hope you understand.
prettywoman thumbnail
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Posted: 14 years ago
#70
copied from another thread where i had written to DD..
hey ram.. pls AS not be BH.. kitna aur sahega bechara.. But DD, nakku will be strong/couragoeus when it comes to protecting her dutta, but when it comes to revealing her secret which MIGHT mean she will lose him, courage ud jaata hain.. i know i am being Adi's advocate here, but somehow, nakku ke chappal meine pehna and i can sympathise with her yaar .. her not confessing does smell of hypocrisy no doubt there ...that people in glass houses dont throw stones at otehrs, But Nakku knows her truth will not harm dutta, yes he will be heart broken, but whereas here she thinks he will be physically harmed.. but i think these little flaws make nakku human and relatable and likeable.. if she was perfect, then we would probably stop relating to her?! teekh hain, jhoota maaro mujhe as i have not convinced u na.. u r a tough nut to convince😆

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