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Samanalyse thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
#31
@ARCH: Sorry I caught this post a little late, both here and on my previous post, but I very much enjoyed reading your amazingly succint summation of where all the characters are in their respective journeys right now. Indeed, the story has centered itself around the question of identity. Both Ishwari and Dev have built their identities around a relationship that rests on a foundation concealment and suppression. Refusing to face the weaknesses in their relationship is what has caused it to become so mutually toxic. And poor Sona, without realising how precarious their relationship was, put her identity - at least partly - into their hands, where it was treated with little respect.

I also wanted to address the disussion on this thread about the promos. Unlike many here, I don't see the complete abandonment of the promos in the current arc of the story. Right now emotions are running high and both Dev and Sona are acting on those emotions. Dev is wracked with guilt and self-hate, making him see anything other than his mother as unimportant and inconsequential. Sona too is rightfully furious and heartbroken at Dev for his behaviour and his lack of tenacity in the face of this problem. But think, with time, when their emotions and pride (and ours!) have cooled, they may very well be able to have conversations like the ones in the promos, where they both acknowledge how much they mean to each other but how they can't be together for reasons outside of their control.

It seems obvious that though they will be broken up, they won't really be able to stay away from each other (Dev especially) or stop loving each other, and eventually they are going to have to address those feelings in a mature way, even just in the interest of proper closure. Both of them have been written as too suljha hua for this not to happen eventually! 😆 But before they do cool down, they will both go to the extremes -- Dev will become excessively emotional and impulsive (if the drinking thing is to be believed) and Sona will go excessively sensible and pragmatic (meeting, and considering marriage, with this new guy her parents suggest), until they realise they aren't solving anything by denying their true feelings.
gemini54 thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
#32
For the first time @Sam I am not in agreement with your post and have a differing opinion

It seems obvious that though they will be broken up, they won't really be able to stay away from each other (Dev especially) or stop loving each other, and eventually they are going to have to address those feelings in a mature way, even just in the interest of proper closure. Both of them have been written as too suljha hua for this not to happen eventually! 😆 But before they do cool down, they will both go to the extremes -- Dev will become excessively emotional and impulsive (if the drinking thing is to be believed) and Sona will go excessively sensible and pragmatic (meeting, and considering marriage, with this new guy her parents suggest), until they realise they aren't solving anything by denying their true feelings.

In reality after just a bitter break up how much ever sulja hua you are the scars remain. Yes they may realize that they love each other but I certainly do not see it go the way as the promos...even if they are cordial I dont forsee the hurt and the doubt that Dev will always chose his mom go away because in the promo the way I understood it Dev was having difficulties talking to his Mother about them and tells Sona even though she is hurt at first( First Promo) she keeps urging him to talk to her..the bitterness that was shown yesterday was not there..just my two cents worth
Edited by gemini54 - 9 years ago
ARCH21 thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
#33

Originally posted by: vandana1965

ishwari needs to find other things to do in her life. maybe get a pet
dog



😆 totally love this.
Ishwari most definitely needs other things to do - khali dimag shaitan ka ghar n all...
She seems to be enjoying her evilness now... It's scary !!
Samanalyse thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
#34

Originally posted by: gemini54

For the first time @Sam I am not in agreement with your post and have a differing opinion


It was bound to happen at some point. This is a very contentious show! 😆

In reality after just a bitter break up how much ever sulja hua you are the scars remain. Yes they may realize that they love each other but I certainly do not see it go the way as the promos...even if they are cordial I dont forsee the hurt and the doubt that Dev will always chose his mom go away because in the promo the way I understood it Dev was having difficulties talking to his Mother about them and tells Sona even though she is hurt at first( First Promo) she keeps urging him to talk to her..the bitterness that was shown yesterday was not there..just my two cents worth

There is very little I disagree with here, to be honest. This break-up and the way Dev has treated Sona will definitely leave scars, but perhaps in the long-run those scars can be what growth comes from. Right now we are all furious at Dev and highly defensive of Sona; rightly so! But for me, it's hard not to see how helpless Dev is. He has never been taught how to deal with this level of emotional complexity and is totally messing every relationship up as a result. The tragedy is that Ishwari is allowing him to do this without lifting a finger because it serves her short-term needs.

Dev has always been shielded from any kind of emotional duress, and so he just has no idea the kind of pain and torture that is coming his way; there's a difference between saying you can cut off your arm for someone and actually cutting off your arm. That pain is what is going to help him understand what precisely he sacrificed. He may see himself only as a son at this moment, but he is still the same Dev who cannot tolerate Sona's anger and indifference. I predict that he will spiral out of control once he realises this, and only Sona will be able to pull him out of it, even if she is still unwilling to reconcile. Once Sona's anger cools down, being the kind of person she is, she will empathise with Dev, though she may not trust him.

The rest of the show will likely be a journey of Dev winning back Sona's trust (and I have a feeling Bijoy's also!). The promos can't show everything, na? They are just a hint of what is to come. My point was that the promos show a possible moment when both Dev and Sona have moved past the initial blow of the break-up, where they acknowledge that they can't be together (Dev because of his mom, and Sona because she can't trust him) but are able to discuss their feelings in a mature way. In essence, I think the tagline of the promos, "dilon ke faisle dimag se" is the key. Dev has made that mistake now, and next it will be Sona's turn with this new entry, I think.



EDIT: Just went and watched the promos again, and actually they do make a lot of sense, especially the one with the phone call. Dev says, "you said you weren't going to call" and Sona replies that she called for Ishwari and not him. Ishwari's expression when she sees Sona's call is also very subtly displeased... perhaps something similar will happen that will prompt her to start the groom search for Sona? *Sigh* I know I might be in the minority, but seeing the promo gave me renewed faith that these CVs know what they are doing :)
Edited by Samanalyse - 9 years ago
ARCH21 thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
#35
gemini54 thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
#36
@Sam
How is it you always make me see your point .😆
Though not totally convinced maybe you have given me teeny bit of hope!
Thanks
ARCH21 thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
#37

Originally posted by: Samanalyse

@ARCH: Sorry I caught this post a little late, both here and on my previous post, but I very much enjoyed reading your amazingly succint summation of where all the characters are in their respective journeys right now. Indeed, the story has centered itself around the question of identity. Both Ishwari and Dev have built their identities around a relationship that rests on a foundation concealment and suppression. Refusing to face the weaknesses in their relationship is what has caused it to become so mutually toxic. And poor Sona, without realising how precarious their relationship was, put her identity - at least partly - into their hands, where it was treated with little respect.

I also wanted to address the disussion on this thread about the promos. Unlike many here, I don't see the complete abandonment of the promos in the current arc of the story. Right now emotions are running high and both Dev and Sona are acting on those emotions. Dev is wracked with guilt and self-hate, making him see anything other than his mother as unimportant and inconsequential. Sona too is rightfully furious and heartbroken at Dev for his behaviour and his lack of tenacity in the face of this problem. But think, with time, when their emotions and pride (and ours!) have cooled, they may very well be able to have conversations like the ones in the promos, where they both acknowledge how much they mean to each other but how they can't be together for reasons outside of their control.

It seems obvious that though they will be broken up, they won't really be able to stay away from each other (Dev especially) or stop loving each other, and eventually they are going to have to address those feelings in a mature way, even just in the interest of proper closure. Both of them have been written as too suljha hua for this not to happen eventually! 😆 But before they do cool down, they will both go to the extremes -- Dev will become excessively emotional and impulsive (if the drinking thing is to be believed) and Sona will go excessively sensible and pragmatic (meeting, and considering marriage, with this new guy her parents suggest), until they realise they aren't solving anything by denying their true feelings.


Given the stage we have reached in the show, I felt what I had written in your post seemed to summarize Phase 1 of the story. Today we officially entered the next phase. I have to say I enjoyed today's episode very much - it had all the ingredients of a good story that you would want to know more of...

@Bold: Loved this 😊
By giving Sonakshi the exact dialogues the entire fandom has been saying just made the emotions very real. Her heartbreak was personal and Dev's betrayal, personally brutal.
But the fact remains, the guy hasn't thought through anything. All he could think was 'Meri Maa... woh Maa hai... etc'. He is burning with guilt... but the moment Sonakshi said 'Goodbye Mr. Dixit', something else hit him. The tears were real...(Have to hand it to Shaheer here)...

Mature people have said, never take decisions under emotional stress. This was a decision taken under a cloud of emotions.
Sonakshi - Her reaction was immediate and final. Damn! he fired her & broke up with her without even talking to her. She deserved at least a talk but Dev is not thinking straight at the moment... the attempt at 'talk' might happen tomm...

All this was - the 2 staying true to character.

But these 2 didn't fall out of love. It's not a switch that you can simply turn off.

He is lost... She is hurt but I still feel a disconnect with the initial promos & I will capture my 2 cents where you just described the promos so well...




ARCH21 thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
#38

Originally posted by: Samanalyse



EDIT: Just went and watched the promos again, and actually they do make a lot of sense, especially the one with the phone call. Dev says, "you said you weren't going to call" and Sona replies that she called for Ishwari and not him. Ishwari's expression when she sees Sona's call is also very subtly displeased... perhaps something similar will happen that will prompt her to start the groom search for Sona? *Sigh* I know I might be in the minority, but seeing the promo gave me renewed faith that these CVs know what they are doing :)


@Sam - This is so beautifully described and I am going to add my 2 cents (long 2 cents 😃) about the promos here -

I will go literal (although promos are just teasers and the actual episode/sequence can't be exact but still...) -

Promo 1 (or 2, am not sure of the order 😊)

Sonakshi calls
Ishwari - Dev, Dr. Sonakshi ka phone hai
Dev - tumne kaha tha phone nahi karogi
Sonakshi - auntyji ke liye kiya hai
Dev - to unke phone pe kar leti
Sonakshi - kiya tha, unhone nahi uthaya... etc etc

Actual show

Sona is not Ishwari's nutritionist anymore. Ishwari has treated her dreadfully. Today's episode took the cake and Sonakshi gave a respectful but fitting reply.
After this, there doesn't seem any logic in Dr. Sonakshi calling her patient Ishwari directly to check on her diet.

Promo 2

Sonakshi - kya maa ne kaha ki unhe hamare rishte se problem hai?
Dev - woh kucch nahi kahti, main samajh jata hoon
Sonakshi - toh theek hai, main bhi kucch nahi kahti...and walks off (this implied break-up)

Actual show

Sonakshi clearly knows Maa doesn't like her. She tells Dev who ignores. Maa says nothing but downs a bottle of pills. Dev reacts emotionally and decides to break-up. Sonakshi says everything & more. Both shattered.
The treatment of the whole sequence took a dramatic turn than originally planned...

Promo 3

As expected Dev cant stay away from Sonakshi (this will definitely happen in the actual show 😊)
He uses the excuse of returning her pen and looks pained.
Sonakshi - Should I talk to Maa?
Dev - No, She will not refuse but she will not be happy either.
Sonakshi - kitni ajeeb baat hai na Dev. Main Maa ko mana nahi sakti aur tum Maa ko mana nahi kar sakte

Actual show

This is water under the bridge already 😊
Dev will surely make silly excuses to see/meet her but with the manner of break-up, I cant see Sonakshi receiving him with calm composure right now.
Their whole conversation implies that Sonakshi still is in decent terms with Ishwari to offer to talk ...and to the extend that she feels she can actually 'manao' Ishwari. This phase has surely passed.
Also, given the manner of break-up; for them to reach a kind of comfort zone will take quite some time and effort on Dev's part. In between (as you rightly described, they will both go to their extremes). After all that is coming, when they will reach a stage where they can talk to each other; why will he need to then find excuses to meet her and why would he then feel awkward/pained...THIS phase would have already passed...


The only thing I see happening is Dev finding excuses to meet her now.
And they will definitely reach a phase of some peace where they can talk to each other because they are angry right now but they don't hate each other. But most of what the promos showed seems to have passed already and by the time these 2 reach the calm phase, time would have moved forward from what the promos depicted...

I think what changed is their treatment of Ishwari. I don't think they initially planned to make her evil to this extend. The vocal insults to Sona, the vocal insults to Bijoy Bose. I feel the original plan was to keep Ishwari's discomfort a lot subtle but now Maa bahut kuch kahti hai & everybody knows... so the subtle treatment of this phase was snatched away and this led to the break-up being so troubled opposed to a quiet acceptance (as in the promos)...

This is my long long view of the short few sec promos that got us all hooked 😃


After today's episode and seeing the Bose family & Sona's maturity, I am looking forward to see where the makers want to take this story now...



Edited by ARCH21 - 9 years ago
LiveLife321 thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
#39
@ARCH, @Sam: I tried to present my pov on y'day's episode. Please go through below post when you have some time and share your valuable views.
http://www.india-forums.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=4698306

Samanalyse thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
#40

Originally posted by: ARCH21


I think what changed is their treatment of Ishwari. I don't think they initially planned to make her evil to this extend. The vocal insults to Sona, the vocal insults to Bijoy Bose. I feel the original plan was to keep Ishwari's discomfort a lot subtle but now Maa bahut kuch kahti hai & everybody knows... so the subtle treatment of this phase was snatched away and this led to the break-up being so troubled opposed to a quiet acceptance (as in the promos)...

This is my long long view of the short few sec promos that got us all hooked 😃


After today's episode and seeing the Bose family & Sona's maturity, I am looking forward to see where the makers want to take this story now...




You are right about the promos not foreshadowing the show literally, but then their purpose was to give us hints about who the characters were, and the central premise of the story based on their respective journeys. They contain all the basic components -- Dev thinking he understands his mother, Sona trying to enter that sphere and being pushed out, the tragic love that is clear between the two, and their inability to be together -- and as I mentioned, the key component is the tagline. "Kya khote aur kya pate jab dil ke phaisle dimag se hote hai?" There was no way for the promos to indicate so completely how these characters would in fact shape up over 100+ episodes.

@the above quoted: I really don't think Ishwari has been "made evil." Her internal conflict and the fears that dictate her actions have been very convincingly built, and stand as a testimony to the helpless position in which this patriarchal system places women who lack identity outside of the domestic/maternal sphere. In the system that Ishwari follows, the man is the center of the household and your proximity to him determines your status in the hierarchy. Women have to fight for this status while maintaining the image of, as someone said on the forum recently, "tyaag ki devi, mahhanta ki murti," so the only form of communication left to them is passive aggressive and indirect. At the moment, Ishwari operates on the premise that if Dev understands her non-verbal cues and gives her what she wants, she wins and maintains her position in the household; if not, she loses. Under no circumstances can she betray that she is feeling insecure, that she is not perfectly selfless, and that his happiness is not enough for her to be happy.

And the thing is, Ishwari has given her life to be highly proficient in this old system of managing relationships. She was chosen for her husband by her saas, and I imagine she was the ideal bahu and wife as far as their expectations went. Once her husband died, she suffered for years raising her children according to that system -- favour the son because he will be the next head of the house while the daughters are destined to be estranged. In all this she has become an expert at this passive form of communication (breaking the vase - her conversation with Bijoy) -- she says things in such a way that her message gets across but she always has plausible deniability. Now when the time has come for her to reap the rewards, as the all-powerful matriarch, ruling her family, Dev turned the tables by choosing Sona for himself, completely independent of her. She probably feels like someone who's spent years working at the same company, only to have the boss say they are bringing a new person instead of promoting her becuase the whole system has changed, and her skills are obsolete. When something like that happens, it's hard to consider why the new system might actually be a good thing.

Ishwari simply does not have the capacity to understand Dev and Sona's relationship, or that Sona is not "competition," because it is so far from what she knows, and the system she is embedded in. Her actions come from a place of fear and ignorance, not malice or evil. That does not make the actions themselves right, but helps us see that the solution might lie in gentleness and patience rather than anger and vengeance.
Edited by Samanalyse - 9 years ago

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