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pd_am thumbnail
Posted: 6 years ago

Originally posted by: Priya_Vrisha



@Mahanalayak

No need to advise me to Read KMG . I have already read it years ago. I have read BORI CE in Sanskrit and it's translation by Bibek Debroy.


I m telling my views , my interpretation and you are telling yours. Now, If my views are matching with anyone else then nothing is wrong in it.

I Agree Arjuna said that Elder brother shouldn't marry younger brother's Wife you are blaming me for ignoring that line But you are aslo ignoring other important points mentioned below.

Satyvati asked Bhishma to beget sons to Ambika and Ambalika. My question is wasn't Bhishma elder brother of Vichitravurya ?

And Bhishma denied it saying he will follow his oath and, he didn't say that Elder brother can't beget son to Wife of Younger brother.

Here is the quote from
Adi Parva : Chapter - 97


O supreme among those who hold up dharma! Therefore, I am depending on you. I will ask
you to perform an act. When you have heard it, please do it. O bull among men! My valorous
son was your brother and you loved him a lot. He has ascended to heaven, though but a
child. Your brother's queens are the fortunate daughters of the king of Kashi and they possess
youth and beauty. O descendant of the Bharata lineage! They yearn for sons. O immensely
fortunate one! Therefore, so that the lineage continues, beget offspring on them. At my
request, perform this act of dharma. Instate yourself on the throne and rule over the kingdom
of the Bharatas. In accordance with dharma, take a wife and do not immerse your ancestors
in hell. The conqueror of enemies was thus addressed by his mother and his friends.
But the one who followed dharma replied in accordance with dharma. "O mother! What
you have said is certainly sanctioned by supreme dharma. But for the sake of the kingdom,
you know about the vow I have taken about not having offspring. O Satyavati! You also know
about the price that had to be paid for you and about the occurrence thereafter. I will again
repeat the truthful pledge that I then took. I can give up the three worlds. I can also renounce
the kingdom of the gods, or anything that is greater than both of these. But I can never go
back on the truth.



No where it os written that Bhishma refused because he was Elder brother of Vichitravurya.
Wasn't BuishBh Also welversed of knowledge of Vedas.

Dear Sis, Mahabharata is full of contradictory statements. Tha's why everyone interprets it in own way .

Now if we talk about whether Karna was eldest Pandva or not ?

Pandu hinhims Told to Kunti who can be Heir ?

Adi parva : Chapter - 111

O Pritha! The religious texts speak of
six kinds of sons who are both heirs and relatives and six kinds of sons who are neither heirs,
nor relatives. Listenthe son born from one's own self, the son presented, the son purchased,
the son born from one's widow, the son born through one's wife before marriage and the son
born through a loose wife.


KARNA WAS SON BORN THROUGH WIFE BEFORE MARRIAGE.


And yes , You haven't Countered my Point of Indra using Apsaras against Rishis

Here is a sample quote where Indra sent Apsaras to safeguard his Throne from Trishira and firstly he tried to seduce Trishira and when he couldn't be distracted, Indra killed Innocent weponless Trishira using Vajra


Udyog Parva : Chapter - 9

He was an
ascetic, mild and self-controlled. He was engaged in dharma and austerities. O destroyer of
enemies! His austerities were so great and terrible that they were extremely difficult to
accomplish. Having witnessed his austerities, valour, truthfulness, Shakra was depressed that
he might become Indra.65 How can one get him addicted to desire, so that he does not
torment through these great austerities? If Trishira continues to grow, he will swallow up the
three worlds.'66 O bull among the Bharata lineage! That intelligent one thought about this in
many ways. He then instructed the apsaras to seduce Tvashtra's son. Go quickly, without any
delay. Seduce Trishira and get him addicted to the pleasures of desire. O ones with the
beautiful hips! Wear the garments of love. Adopt a charming demeanour. O fortunate ones!
Tempt him and pacify my fear. O one with the beautiful limbs! I feel ill. I do not feel like
myself. O ladies! Swiftly take away my extremely terrible fear.' The apsaras replied, O
Shakra! O destroyer of Bala!67 We will make endeavours to seduce him, so that you have
nothing to fear. That treasure among ascetics seems to burn everything down with his eyes. O
god! We will go together and try to seduce him. We will try to bring him under our control

and remove your fear.' Being instructed by Indra, they went to Trishira. There, the ones with
the beautiful limbs adopted all kinds of allurements to seduce him. They showed their dances.
They exhibited the beauty of their limbs. But having seen this, the great ascetic was not
perturbed. He was in control of his senses and was as calm as the full ocean. They made
supreme efforts and returned to Shakra. All of them joined their hands in salutation and told
the king of the gods, O lord! This one is extremely difficult to distract. It is impossible to
sway him from his firmness. O immensely fortunate one! Do what must be done hereafter.

My Questions

- Was Indra father of Apsaras ?
- was Indra Brother of Apsaras ?
- Was Indra Husband of Apsaras ?


Erm, sorry, going a bit off-topic here.

I am planning to learn Sanskrit for a long time, but havent really got the chance to.

Since you know Sanskrit, I am assuming that you have learnt it formally from somewhere. Could you please suggest me a few good books from where you read? Or if you self-learned, could you please suggest a few good online tutorials from where you learnt Sanskrit?

I googled a lot, but most books and tutorials are too academic for Phd level people. I want something simpler which would help me read Ramayana and Mahabharata in Sanskrit. And Sanskrit-English online dictionaries are the worst source of learning Sanskrit, I have been told.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Edited by pd_am - 6 years ago
1123225 thumbnail
Posted: 6 years ago
And I'm saying

1. KRISHNA could only offer intercourse with his own wives, and Panchali wasnt one. Krishna knew and Karna knew the offer was false.


2. Intercourse or marriage between older brother and younger SIL was forbidden. In the Pandava case, they were married to her legally, in order. Karna could never marry or have sex with her.😆


3. YOU quoted me the rules of Niyog to justify the idea of elder brother marrying/having sex with younger SIL. I pointed out your mistake.😆


------


Can you also quote the Sanskrit verse from CE and give a word by word translation? Since you said you read it in Sanskrit. 😆 I think you're going to get a shock when you actually read it. It ain't what Debroy or KMG has translated it as. 😆
SweetRogue thumbnail
9th Anniversary Thumbnail Explorer Thumbnail
Posted: 6 years ago
The freaking language of these posts! Proven yourself a true Karna fan.
Doesn't this forum have a moderate?
1123225 thumbnail
Posted: 6 years ago
I guess it's a good thing I don't understand that weird word salad. 😆

The Sanskrit expert is busy translating the verse, I assume.
1123225 thumbnail
Posted: 6 years ago

Originally posted by: RadheyaUruvi



Its not like that. Krishna can offer any woman. Ved vyass himself offer draupadi and kunti also offered her without permission of arjuna or anyone

Satyavati asked bhishma to have sex with younger brother wife hence it was not forbidden





1. Satyavati asked Bheeshma to do NIYOG. Ie, surrogacy. There is a diff. Karna couldn't do niyog since Pandavas already had kids. He couldn't marry/have sex with Panchali otherwise as by law, she was his daughter.


2. No, Krishna could not offer any woman. Case in point, his own SISTER. He didn't even dare approach Balram with proposal for her to marry Arjuna. He clearly says the woman would refuse. Actually, Panchali clearly told him she wouldn't listen to him, anyway 😆


Neither would Karna be ever considered heir.


The offer was a big trick. Krishna was a very smart man.


-------


The Sanskrit expert is not back with the translation?
1123225 thumbnail
Posted: 6 years ago
Satyavati asked Bheeshma to do NIYOGA not marry or simply have sex with Vichitravirya's wives. Niyoga was legal.

Krishna's offer to Karna was not for niyoga. It was for sex/marriage which was against Manu Smriti. It couldn't happen. Arjuna says it after swayamvara that elder bro has to marry first. Once younger bro has married her, she is a daughter to elder bro.

Krishna had no legal standing to offer, either. Read the polyandry part carefully. It is Arjun who says it. Not Kunti or Yudhishtira. Only Arjuna had the right to say it as he was the one who won her hand.

And Panchali had already said, she wasnt going to agree to Krishna's efforts to bring peace.

Also, RU. by saying that Krishna could offer any woman he wanted to whoever he wanted, you're basically calling him the pimp of Aryavarta. Are you sure that's what you want to do?

Heir type# 5 comes after 1, 2, 3, and 4. All 5 legal Pandavas came before Karna. In fact, all their sons also came before Karna. Karna could never be king unless all those people died.

Dont take my word for it. Read Anushasana Parva where Yudhishtira asks Bheeshma that question.
Edited by MahanalayakKarn - 6 years ago
1123225 thumbnail
Posted: 6 years ago
Re: Duryodhana
His father was also product of Niyog. So he and Yudhishtira were in the same boat as far as eligibility was concerned.

For age to be criterion, Pandu would have to accept Karna first. By his own words, he preferred Niyog children, not kaneena son.

Karna was nowhere in the running for kingship.
Edited by MahanalayakKarn - 6 years ago
1123225 thumbnail
Posted: 6 years ago
Problem is Duryodhana is also Type 2 . His father was born from Niyog.


Please go and read the polyandry part. Arjun says it would be SINFUL not disrespectful if he married her first.


Also, still waiting for the word by word translation on the Sanskrit verse containing the offer.
1123225 thumbnail
Posted: 6 years ago
Buddy RU
That still doesnt get Karna anywhere near the throne 😆.

I actually have some sympathy for Suyodhana. I feel he was grossly misused by people with their own agendas, including Karna.
1123225 thumbnail
Posted: 6 years ago
Again,
Please post the Sanskrit verse of the offer and translate word by word. Let's see what exactly Krishna offered.

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