Jodha Akbar 65: Revelations

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myviewprem

@myviewprem

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Posted: 9 years ago

#41

For all those who are interested

Siyasat serial is again running on Epic at 9pm from last week

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karkuzhali

@karkuzhali

Inactive

Posted: 9 years ago

#42

Shyamala,

@ *****

I do not agree with you. When Jalal was bouncing on her,he did not watch MA's changing expressions but Jodha was standing in a position from where she could see both of them, and hence was shocked to see how efficiently MA was play-acting in front of Jalal provoking him emotionally. In this situation, any wife's anger will turn against the husband, who was so blind as not to see the double game played by his badiammi. That is why while talking to Moti (or, "ranting " as you say) she says that she feels bad to have such a vivekheen purush as her husband.

So we have to take the context and the circumstances in which Jalal talks to her about the horror of his childhood. Will she say, "Oh I am so sorry..."? She knows fully well that MA is taking advantage of Jalal always reminding him about his dhoodh ki rishta towards her. She is convinced that only Jalal loves his badiammi and is not the other way round. If only Jalal had a chance to talk to Jodha about his childhood days under a normal situation, her reaction would definitely be different then.

Actually it was not Jodha but MA who dragged Jodha before Jalal.

But we have to appreciate her cleverness in drafting a plan so quickly to present before Jalal .Because she is so sure that Jalal is only a puppet in her hands, she is able to foresee the results.

(The same tactics was followed by Jodha in the Sukanya's wedding track. But I have other views about it, which can be discussed later while dealing with those episodes).

Later when Jalal goes to Ruqaiah and complains about Jodha, she at least (after he left her) gives some consideration to Jodha's charges against MA, but Jalal does not think like that but says that Jodha has 'done the grave mistake of charging his badiammi.'

Shyamala, I know you will be giving me counter arguments and I am eagerly waiting for them.

Saraswathi.

P.S. A small request to you. Can you please give me the exact translation of the dialogues between Jalal and MA during the first 5 minutes of the episode 67?

Originally posted by: sashashyam
It is going to come tonight or tomorrow night. It is when Maham drags Jodha to the Shahenshah, so that she can accuse her; this is after their disastrous (for Jodha) encounter in the bawarchikhana.

Jalal tells Jodha about the horrors that happened to him as a child in Kabul, and how Maham saved him from the cannon fire at the risk of her life. Jodha listens to him, but in her ranting afterwards in her rooms, there is not an iota of understanding or empathy for what that child Jalal must have gone thru, and why Maham is to him what she is today.*****

Instead, she goes on babbling about Jalal's andha vishwas, and that he will not believe his shubchintak, ie Jodha. That was a priceless joke; Jalal should believe this woman who says she has so much ghrina for him and who, till recently, wanted his sar, against the person who has been more than a mother figure for him for his whole life!

Shyamala.

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sashashyam

@sashashyam

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Posted: 9 years ago

#43

My dear Saraswati Akka,

That is clever of you, to have thought of this, but I am afraid it is a non-starter. Because all these characters are so inconsistent, and in the case of Jalal, hit a downward slope so soon, that one will find that one is left lamenting the folly of the writers! Even if one were to start any such exercise, it will soon die on the vine..

Plus, I am no longer interested in rejuvenating this whole thing. In fact what I do not understand now is why I ever let Mandy (ghalibmirza) talk me into restarting this series of posts - and she is no show of late ! - and then Donjas into getting me to move them here! I now feel it is an increasingly pointless exercise, at which I spend on the average 3 hours a day, and for what?

I have done all this before, when it was all fresh and stimulating, both for me and for my readers, of whom there were more than 4 times as many as now. Now it seems to have become a chore, for me to write these posts and for the readers to respond to them. That is the uncomfortable truth. You know, Akka, one should never look back, or try to revisit the haunts that delighted one in the past!

Shyamala

Originally posted by: karkuzhali

Dear Shyamala,

Can I suggest that you open new and different threads for studying the development of the main characters Jalal, Jodha, Maham Anga, Ruquaiah and Hamida Bhanu? This will give a new venue for some discussion with interesting ideas and viewpoints.

Saraswathi.

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sashashyam

@sashashyam

Sparkler

+ 3

Posted: 9 years ago

#44

But Akka, I too have said that it was Maham who dragged Jodha before Jalal! Please read my post to you, I have bolded it now.

As for the part in italics, I do not agree with you either. How does Jodha expect Jalal to know that Maham is playacting? Does Jodha, in the Todar Mal case, see the treacherous double game that Shehnaaz, a girl she has got to know only recently, is playing with her and with Todar Mal? Yet Jodha gets a respected man condemned to death on the evidence of that woman she barely knows. And here, for Jalal, Maham is someone who has saved his life time and again, has stood by him and has raised him with love and caring when his own mother was not there.

And what is Jodha to Jalal, when compared to all this? Or even per se? A woman who proclaims ad infinitum that she hates him, and who has recently smashed a glass vase at his feet to make her point. Why would he believe her against his Badiammi? In his place, I would not either, and the fact that I would be badly wrong would not make my reaction less justifiable.

Now she actually expects Jalal to see her as his shubchintak ! Why would he do that, pray?

The fact is that Jodha has neither commonsense - Moti has ten times more of that! - nor perceptiveness, the ability to put oneself in the shoes of another. Plus she is terminally self-righteous.

To come back to the horrors of his childhood that Jalal relates to her, Jodha does not even refer to them when she is, yes, ranting to Moti in her room. Anyone with a modicum of intelligence and sensitivity would have seen WHY Jalal is so loyal to Maham. That Maham is wicked changes nothing in this. Will Jodha listen to anyone accusing her mother of a crime?

Plus, Jodha never has any interest in or empathy for anything Jalal tells her about himself . It is the same when he is explaining to her why the Ratanpur fort is so special for him, because of its connection with his father. She does not react to that at all and simply walks off.

She is like that only! I have praised her when praise was due, as you would have seen in some of these posts of mine, but I am no Jodhaphile to explain away all her faults and failings, which are endless!

I will try and get you the translation you want soon.

Shyamala

Originally posted by: karkuzhali

Shyamala,

@ *****
I do not agree with you. When Jalal was bouncing on her,he did not watch MA's changing expressions but Jodha was standing in a position from where she could see both of them, and hence was shocked to see how efficiently MA was play-acting in front of Jalal provoking him emotionally. In this situation, any wife's anger will turn against the husband, who was so blind as not to see the double game played by his badiammi. That is why while talking to Moti (or, "ranting " as you say) she says that she feels bad to have such a vivekheen purush as her husband.
So we have to take the context and the circumstances in which Jalal talks to her about the horror of his childhood. Will she say, "Oh I am so sorry..."? She knows fully well that MA is taking advantage of Jalal always reminding him about his dhoodh ki rishta towards her. She is convinced that only Jalal loves his badiammi and is not the other way round. If only Jalal had a chance to talk to Jodha about his childhood days under a normal situation, her reaction would definitely be different then.

Actually it was not Jodha but MA who dragged Jodha before Jalal. ???
But we have to appreciate her cleverness in drafting a plan so quickly to present before Jalal .Because she is so sure that Jalal is only a puppet in her hands, she is able to foresee the results.
(The same tactics was followed by Jodha in the Sukanya's wedding track. But I have other views about it, which can be discussed later while dealing with those episodes).
Later when Jalal goes to Ruqaiah and complains about Jodha, she at least (after he left her) gives some consideration to Jodha's charges against MA, but Jalal does not think like that but says that Jodha has 'done the grave mistake of charging his badiammi.'
Shyamala, I know you will be giving me counter arguments and I am eagerly waiting for them.

Saraswathi.

P.S. A small request to you. Can you please give me the exact translation of the dialogues between Jalal and MA during the first 5 minutes of the episode 67?

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sashashyam

@sashashyam

Sparkler

+ 3

Posted: 9 years ago

#45

My dear Ayesha,

How sweet of you to have dug this up for me!

But this was not what I meant. This is something Jodha says during the actual crisis, when she is appalled by what she has done, and she thinks Jalal is dying. I meant later, when she meets him for the first time after he has recovered, or later still. In her place, I would have apologised fervently as my opening sentence at that meeting.

See, if you have hit someone with your car and nearly killed him, would it be enough for you to apologise to the man as he lies bleeding on the road? After he has, luckily, recovered, and you go to see him, would you not apologise again, and very sincerely? Surely you would!

But Jodha does nothing of the kind when she meets Jalal for the first time after he survives, and instead makes some unpleasant comment about his having arranged Sukanya's wedding that I can no longer remember.

She is always like that, is Jodha, which is why I never liked her except in bits and pieces, mostly at the beginning.

I too miss those old times in this forum.n Don't worry about you not being able to be active on my threads. Soon, I may no longer be active on them myself!

Take care, my dear, and thanks a lot for your concern about my health.

Shyamala Aunty

Originally posted by: ashpat

Hi Aunty!!!

I used to be an active participant of you threads when JA started and used to enjoy reading your posts and debates in your threads. I am not much active on IF anymore especially since twins death track. I do come on JA IF to read selective FF and sometimes read your wonderful posts, too but am a silent reader now. I found out that you are diagnosed with RA. I hope that your pain gets reduced and is at least at tolerable levels. Please take care of yourself.

I am watching the re-run like most people but I just do not have time to participate in threads due to hectic schedule of studies and work.

I was skimming through the last two pages and I noticed that you said Jodha NEVER apologized for narnaal affair which is not true.

Go to the video below: and start the video from 5:00 . She apologizes on 5:07.

https://youtu.be/EuMItlTaxbw

(I am typing from phone so will not be able to load a video) It is epiaode 80.
I will try to comment on your threads in future if time permits.

Thank you Aunty once again for all the efforts you put in past and present for your threads. I really miss those times when I used to have fun reading the takes on episodes from lashy, vicky, meghana, skanda12 and you.

Ayesha

Edited by sashashyam - 9 years ago

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karkuzhali

@karkuzhali

Inactive

Posted: 9 years ago

#46

Dear Shyamala,

Let us put JA discussion/arguments to rest for a while.

I am now reading a book titled "First and only Women", presenting some of the 'History's female trailblazers', who despite seemingly impossible odds, took charge of their own destiny and changed the course of history . These are articles by various authors, compiled by one Lynn Santa Lucia. The book was published in 2010.

It is interesting to read about the only female pharaoh Hatshepsut (1508- 1458 BC) who ruled Egypt for 20 years! The article says that during her peaceful and prosperous reign, "...she built a large number of magnificent monuments, masterminded a highly profitable trading mission to the resource-rich Land of Punt..." She even went to the extent of taking trouble to appear like a typical pharaoh, wearing the male clothes and even the paraphernalia , including the false "beard of wisdom" that a pharaoh normally used to wear! She was the first woman to proclaim herself the Pharaoh of Egypt after usurping her stepson's throne!

There is also an article about Razia Sultan who lived more than 300 years before Akbhar, and was the only and first woman ruler of the Delhi Sultanate. Though her reign was short, only five years from 1236 to 1240, the impact she made was great.

In the words of the Author, "Historians and biographers have said that Razia Sultan was a great sovereign, sagacious, just, beneficent, the patron of the learned, dispenser of justice, the cherisher of her subjects, a warlike talent,and endowed with all the admirable attributes and qualification necessary for kings..."

It is really very interesting to read about such a female Ruler in history who surpassed all her male predecessors in her governance.The article says, "....Though indisputably accomplished on the battlefild, Razia Sulan's greatest fight may have been for justice and racial tolerence. She attempted to abolish the unjust tax imposed on non-muslims...Razia declared that the spirit of Islam teaches that love of one's nation is part of the love of God; that peace with one's neighbour is part of peace with oneself, and the true Muslim spirit is not to destroy, but to build. Razia practised this belief.Records show that, at least on one occasion, she attempted to appoint a recent Hindu covert to Islam to an official position..."

But her championship of non muslims was said to be the cause for her downfall. It seems that historians commented that men of discernment could find no defect in her except that was created in the form of a woman!

I remember that Jalal , while talking to jodha when she was expecting the child, said that if the child would be a girl, he would bring her up like Razia Sultan!

[By the way, you must have heard about the book , "VandaargaL, VenRaargaL"(They came, They Conquered) in Tamil by "Madan".(Vikatan Publications) It gives a very beautiful and interesting account of the Muslim Invasion]

There are also articles about others like the One and Only Pope Joan(!), Indira Gandhi, Dawn Fraser etc.

Perhaps you would have read the book already. I do not want to rest your patience any more!

Saraswathi.

P.S. I think because you are calling me akka, I am taking too much of liberty with you!

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Zhanna

@alffim

Navigator

Posted: 9 years ago

#47

Originally posted by: sashashyam
My dear Ayesha,

How sweet of you to have dug this up for me!

But this was not what I meant. This is something Jodha says during the actual crisis, when she is appalled by what she has done, and she thinks Jalal is dying. I meant later, when she meets him for the first time after he has recovered, or later still. In her place, I would have apologised fervently as my opening sentence at that meeting.

See, if you have hit someone with your car and nearly killed him, would it be enough for you to apologise to the man as he lies bleeding on the road? After he has, luckily, recovered, and you go to see him, would you not apologise again, and very sincerely? Surely you would!

But Jodha does nothing of the kind when she meets Jalal for the first time after he survives, and instead makes some unpleasant comment about his having arranged Sukanya's wedding that I can no longer remember.

She is always like that, is Jodha, which is why I never liked her except in bits and pieces, mostly at the beginning.

I too miss those old times in this forum.n Don't worry about you not being able to be active on my threads. Soon, I may no longer be active on them myself!

Take care, my dear, and thanks a lot for your concern about my health.

Shyamala Aunty

For me was a very evident "sin" Jodha in the series, when Shehnaz runs from Agra , Jalal tries to catch up and talk to her, but he was severely wounded.
In Russia, we began to show JA much later and I watched the series without translation into Russian. The text in Hindi. Scene: badly wounded and beaten Jalal, a very compassionate Jodha. What they say - is not clear.
That's really where I was not only shocked, but also a great anger at the scriptwriters!
When we were translated to this series, it appeared that Jodha not ask how much it hurt, and not worry about it, but she reprimand that he could not talk with Shehnaz. Madhouse !!! 😡
We now have a track mania Jalal-God and beetles. It seems to me that RT is awkward to play. Although the topic is interesting, but the embodiment failed.
In any case, if the film began with this track, I probably would not watch it. No matter the beauty and the immense talent of the actors.
We had a story: filmed on a medical theme. The actress was supposed to be sick and lay in a delirium. . Text almost was not, and she wanted stay on the screen longer. And she asked the scriptwriter, "Write me a more ravings!" A scriptwriter said: "ravings - no problem! ravings - this is I can!" 😃
That's almost everything after the 250 series - ravings .

Edited by alffim - 9 years ago

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Donjas

@Donjas

Dazzler

Posted: 9 years ago

#48

I read your comments with interest. Your analysis should not be a chore for you otherwise the whole purpose of the exercise is wasted. It should be an entertaining endeavor not a duty. If you find yourself tiring of it, then I suggest that you post just those pieces that you had composed in the initial run. Of course, we won't have your opinion of the repeat view but we can live with that.

It will be a setback for us readers, because your post is something which still kindles happiness in me whenever I see a message that a brand new post of yours is ready.

But of course health and interest come first.

Originally posted by: sashashyam
My dear Saraswati Akka,

That is clever of you, to have thought of this, but I am afraid it is a non-starter. Because all these characters are so inconsistent, and in the case of Jalal, hit a downward slope so soon, that one will find that one is left lamenting the folly of the writers! Even if one were to start any such exercise, it will soon die on the vine..

Plus, I am no longer interested in rejuvenating this whole thing. In fact what I do not understand now is why I ever let Mandy (ghalibmirza) talk me into restarting this series of posts - and she is no show of late ! - and then Donjas into getting me to move them here! I now feel it is an increasingly pointless exercise, at which I spend on the average 3 hours a day, and for what?

I have done all this before, when it was all fresh and stimulating, both for me and for my readers, of whom there were more than 4 times as many as now. Now it seems to have become a chore, for me to write these posts and for the readers to respond to them. That is the uncomfortable truth. You know, Akka, one should never look back, or try to revisit the haunts that delighted one in the past!

Shyamala

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Shah67

@Shah67

Navigator

Posted: 9 years ago

#49

It's been a little crazy lately Aunty. Have to yet read your other post. Things should settle down by the weekend and then I can sit down and read and share my thoughts. Your posts are not something I can (or want to) read on the go.

Devki

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sashashyam

@sashashyam

Sparkler

+ 3

Posted: 9 years ago

#50

My dear Donjas,

What a kind and charming thing to say! Thank you!

My cribbing apart, I wanted to make you happy, so my PM about my brand new post should be already in your inbox. I hope you enjoy my latest marathon effort.

Shyamala

Originally posted by: Donjas
I read your comments with interest. Your analysis should not be a chore for you otherwise the whole purpose of the exercise is wasted. It should be an entertaining endeavor not a duty. If you find yourself tiring of it, then I suggest that you post just those pieces that you had composed in the initial run. Of course, we won't have your opinion of the repeat view but we can live with that.

It will be a setback for us readers, because your post is something which still kindles happiness in me whenever I see a message that a brand new post of yours is ready.

But of course health and interest come first.

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