Jodha Akbar 65: Revelations - Page 6

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sashashyam thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
#51
Not to worry, my dear Devki. You can get around to my posts when you are relaxed.

Shyamala Aunty

Originally posted by: devkidmd

It's been a little crazy lately Aunty. Have to yet read your other post. Things should settle down by the weekend and then I can sit down and read and share my thoughts. Your posts are not something I can (or want to) read on the go.
Devki

sashashyam thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
#52
My dear Saraswati Akka,

Firstly, there is no question of your taking any liberty with me. Perish the thought!

I shall come around with those lines of Maham's tonight; I have had to spend a lot of time on my new post, and I am exhausted.

Lastly, I shall revisit this response of mine tonight as well, for though I have not read this book, the references you have made are fascinating. I will only add here that I had read a book When Egypt ruled the east, by a noted historian duo, George Steindorff and Keith C. Seele. There was a good bit there about Hatshepsut, the widow of Thutmose II and the stepmother of his successor Thutmose III, who ruled with full powers as the regent, the Divine Consort and Great Royal Wife, during the minoriy to her stepson. The reliefs of the regency apparently show her standing behind Thutmose III.

But soon she took over as the full Pharaoh, and ruled till 1482, when her understandably restless stepson. seizing his chance, overthrew her and disposed of her in short order. She is said to have been both a very beautiful and charming woman, as also a very intelligent and capable one, having the extra advantage of a superb adviser in Senenmut.

I have of course read a good bit about Razia Sultan, and I was greatly interested in the aspects in which she was a forerunner of Akbar. More soon on all this.

Shyamala

Originally posted by: karkuzhali



Dear Shyamala,

Let us put JA discussion/arguments to rest for a while.
I am now reading a book titled "First and only Women", presenting some of the 'History's female trailblazers', who despite seemingly impossible odds, took charge of their own destiny and changed the course of history . These are articles by various authors, compiled by one Lynn Santa Lucia. The book was published in 2010.

It is interesting to read about the only female pharaoh Hatshepsut (1508- 1458 BC) who ruled Egypt for 20 years! The article says that during her peaceful and prosperous reign, "...she built a large number of magnificent monuments, masterminded a highly profitable trading mission to the resource-rich Land of Punt..." She even went to the extent of taking trouble to appear like a typical pharaoh, wearing the male clothes and even the paraphernalia , including the false "beard of wisdom" that a pharaoh normally used to wear! She was the first woman to proclaim herself the Pharaoh of Egypt after usurping her stepson's throne!

There is also an article about Razia Sultan who lived more than 300 years before Akbhar, and was the only and first woman ruler of the Delhi Sultanate. Though her reign was short, only five years from 1236 to 1240, the impact she made was great.
In the words of the Author, "Historians and biographers have said that Razia Sultan was a great sovereign, sagacious, just, beneficent, the patron of the learned, dispenser of justice, the cherisher of her subjects, a warlike talent,and endowed with all the admirable attributes and qualification necessary for kings..."
It is really very interesting to read about such a female Ruler in history who surpassed all her male predecessors in her governance.The article says, "....Though indisputably accomplished on the battlefild, Razia Sulan's greatest fight may have been for justice and racial tolerence. She attempted to abolish the unjust tax imposed on non-muslims...Razia declared that the spirit of Islam teaches that love of one's nation is part of the love of God; that peace with one's neighbour is part of peace with oneself, and the true Muslim spirit is not to destroy, but to build. Razia practised this belief.Records show that, at least on one occasion, she attempted to appoint a recent Hindu covert to Islam to an official position..."

But her championship of non muslims was said to be the cause for her downfall. It seems that historians commented that men of discernment could find no defect in her except that was created in the form of a woman!

I remember that Jalal , while talking to jodha when she was expecting the child, said that if the child would be a girl, he would bring her up like Razia Sultan!

[By the way, you must have heard about the book , "VandaargaL, VenRaargaL"(They came, They Conquered) in Tamil by "Madan".(Vikatan Publications) It gives a very beautiful and interesting account of the Muslim Invasion]

There are also articles about others like the One and Only Pope Joan(!), Indira Gandhi, Dawn Fraser etc.

Perhaps you would have read the book already. I do not want to rest your patience any more!

Saraswathi.

P.S. I think because you are calling me akka, I am taking too much of liberty with you!


Edited by sashashyam - 9 years ago
myviewprem thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
#53
The way the characters behave must be seen from their perspective

Akbar

- This serial is of 16th century and in those times a mother, step mother and nurse maid all got equal respect(not only from Akbar but also Jehangir etc who treated nurse maid and step mothers equal to mothers). That was the culture of those times. So no ways a son will listen to a wife(be it ruqaiah before or jodha now) and suspect his dai ma of killing his baby. For Akbar maham is his mother(not even mother like) simple and sons of those times held mothers in high regards(unlike 21st century where all relations usually have expiry date) and even if mothers did mistakes sons forgave(example Shah jahan forgiving nur jahan for her conspiracy that destroyed his relationship with his father). Previously Ruqaiah accused maham and jalal was not ready to listen to one word in hamam and now he listened to jodha but refused to believe. I think every son in 16th century would behave same way that was expected of sons in those times. Its not 21st century where if wife has issues with parents, parents shall be kicked off from house to maintain harmony. So Akbar is consistent with an 16th century son.

Secondly maham has taken care of him fed my milk, told stories, played with him, been with him in kabul fort at time of gun attack i mean till today whatever akbar saw she has protected him why will he listen to jodha without proof and say that ok fine my dai ma is killer and punish her. I will go a line forward and say even if he finds she is killer of his babies he will not kill her for the dhood ka karz, he may just put her in jail or tell her to leave agra or mughal empire. Akbar is never ehsaan faramosh to his foster parents be it BK or Maham.

Maham

Now Maham has held a point of akbars dhukti raag as they say his emotional bonding with maham and his gratitude to her. She is using this to save herself from any revelations agianst her not only today but all life.

Jodha

Jodha must realize Maham is mother to Akbar- she must be subtle while dealing with maham issues with akbar. She could have made rahim tell it to salima and ruqaiah and hamida so they tell akbar about it. Akbar will believe hamida and gulbadan and may be ruqaiah more than a jodha and salima on his baby death issue against maham.

Jodha must realize - what if someone comes and says mynavaati killed some one or hamida killed someone will jodha ever believe she will say conspiracy against them same thing akbar doing. Its tough to actually accept your parents and close ones true face.


Edited by myviewprem - 9 years ago
sashashyam thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
#54
My dear Prem,

An excellent take on the whole thing, and I particularly liked the part on a son in that era. As you had predicted, though Jalal here never found out that Maham had destroyed so many of his children before they were born, he did find her guilty of a conspiracy to overthrow him which was also a gunaah-e-azeem and he did not execute her for that.

As for Jodha's folly in taking Maham head on with Jalal, I have written about it in detail in my next post, and my take is the same as yours.

Shyamala

Originally posted by: myviewprem

The way the characters behave must be seen from their perspective

Akbar

- This serial is of 16th century and in those times a mother, step mother and nurse maid all got equal respect(not only from Akbar but also Jehangir etc who treated nurse maid and step mothers equal to mothers). That was the culture of those times. So no ways a son will listen to a wife(be it ruqaiah before or jodha now) and suspect his dai ma of killing his baby. For Akbar maham is his mother(not even mother like) simple and sons of those times held mothers in high regards(unlike 21st century where all relations usually have expiry date) and even if mothers did mistakes sons forgave(example Shah jahan forgiving nur jahan for her conspiracy that destroyed his relationship with his father). Previously Ruqaiah accused maham and jalal was not ready to listen to one word in hamam and now he listened to jodha but refused to believe. I think every son in 16th century would behave same way that was expected of sons in those times. Its not 21st century where if wife has issues with parents, parents shall be kicked off from house to maintain harmony. So Akbar is consistent with an 16th century son.

Secondly maham has taken care of him fed my milk, told stories, played with him, been with him in kabul fort at time of gun attack i mean till today whatever akbar saw she has protected him why will he listen to jodha without proof and say that ok fine my dai ma is killer and punish her. I will go a line forward and say even if he finds she is killer of his babies he will not kill her for the dhood ka karz, he may just put her in jail or tell her to leave agra or mughal empire. Akbar is never ehsaan faramosh to his foster parents be it BK or Maham.

Maham

Now Maham has held a point of akbars dhukti raag as they say his emotional bonding with maham and his gratitude to her. She is using this to save herself from any revelations agianst her not only today but all life.

Jodha

Jodha must realize Maham is mother to Akbar- she must be subtle while dealing with maham issues with akbar. She could have made rahim tell it to salima and ruqaiah and hamida so they tell akbar about it. Akbar will believe hamida and gulbadan and may be ruqaiah more than a jodha and salima on his baby death issue against maham.

Jodha must realize - what if someone comes and says mynavaati killed some one or hamida killed someone will jodha ever believe she will say conspiracy against them same thing akbar doing. Its tough to actually accept your parents and close ones true face.


amina1 thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
#55
Well Aunty i dont think real akbar put maham in kali kotli ,and the realationship he had with his own mother was not what we saw in ja,more like sas bahu than royal of 16 century,i dont know for me is hard to believe maham killed akbars children i mean she used to keep check whome he visit is that possible with so many cucbines as well as wives,wont she be cauch
Edited by amina1 - 9 years ago
sashashyam thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
#56
My dear Amina,

I believe there is something Akbar's historian, Abul Fazl, wrote about someone "who was like a mother to the Shahenshah" having been responsible for the deaths of many unborn babies of his, and it is assumed that it was Maham he meant. But she died quite early in Akbar's reign, in 1562/3, soon after he married Jodha. Not years and years later, after so much melodrama, as shown here. But she was clearly not caught for these crimes.


Shyamala Aunty

Originally posted by: amina1

Well Aunty i dont think real akbar put maham in kali kotli ,and the realationship he had with his own mother was not what we saw in ja,more like sas bahu than royal of 16 century,i dont know for me is hard to believe maham killed akbars children i mean she used to keep check whome he visit is that possible with so many cucbines as well as wives,wont she be cauch

sashashyam thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
#57
Agree in toto with all of this.

Shyamala

Originally posted by: adiana12

Hi Shyamala, These epis were redeemed by Rajat and only Rajat and his Jalal - Jodha shows neither grace nor sense (forget common sense which seems to be a non entity for her😛)

Rajat in that scene with Salima Begum was brilliant and Jalal definitely shows he is a man that any woman would want and feel safe with simultaneously.

But Maham's revelation - I wish the director had used the 'Noir' technique for this - it would have been awesum

myviewprem thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
#58

Originally posted by: sashashyam

My dear Prem,

An excellent take on the whole thing, and I particularly liked the part on a son in that era. As you had predicted, though Jalal here never found out that Maham had destroyed so many of his children before they were born, he did find her guilty of a conspiracy to overthrow him which was also a gunaah-e-azeem and he did not execute her for that.

As for Jodha's folly in taking Maham head on with Jalal, I have written about it in detail in my next post, and my take is the same as yours.

Shyamala

sashashyam thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
#59
Well, living in the harem with such people around must have been like living in a snake pit.

I never knew Maham had other sons apart from Adham. If someone really murdered her, it was only justice delayed!

Shyamala

KanJmaskis thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
#60


Sorry aunty fr being absent at last one...also i know i m very late here bt couldn't not resist myself to write after reading it ... So some words in ur honour ...

Originally posted by: sashashyam

Folks,

Here is the second part of my marathon post, the analysis of Episode 65.

You will surely wonder: Why the plural, when there was only one Grand Revelation, that Maham Anga had dunnit? Oh, but you see, that is not the only one I shall be referring to. There were many other revelations in this episoder, major and minor, from the opening shot to the precap. Let us try and identify them all.

Maham Anga: Mistress of deception: That she was finally self-revealed to be the Dibbi Lady came not as a thunderclap, but as an anticlimax. In 2013, even I, who started out with her as the most likely suspect, was taken in by that conversation of hers with her Girl Friday Resham, and I switched to believing that it could not be Maham as she sounded so sincere there. But in hindsight, the matter is so very dangerous that she would never have trusted anyone else, no matter how close to her, with this incendiary truth, not Resham, and definitely not her uncontrollable, drunken braggart of a son.

Now, it is like those traditional English country house murder mysteries, where one starts out with the butler - the butler did it! - goes the round of suspects, and finally ends up with the selfsame butler!😉

But for me, this was not the real McCoy. That was the revelation of what could be called the Real Maham Anga. In a terrifying scene, she herself strips away every layer of her persona, one by one, to finally reveal a weak and helpless woman, crippled by her overweening love for her worthless son, and driven by the desire to prove, not to him, but to herself, and beyond all doubt, that he is the dearest to her in the whole world .

Hamara saaya bhi nahin jaanta ki haqeeqat kya hai, par yeh haqeeqat hai, Adham, ki duniya mein sabse zyada hum aapse mohabbat karte hain! Sabse zyada!!

To prove this to herself, she betrays everything she not just professes to hold dear, but what she does hold dear. Her affection for her foster son, her loyalty to the sultanat-e-mughaliya, her fealty to the royal family and to the Shahenshah.

Listening to her proclaim that not even her saayaknows the truth (in this, she resembles no one so much as the master thief Aryan in Dhoom 2), I was struck by the folly of my initial conclusion, based on her apparently candid conversation with Resham, that she had not done it.


Ya...me too aunty ... Hell shocked with her revelation especially after her long speech about Apna doodh pilaya to resham and adham as u said . ...i had goose bumps last yr at the culprit revealation shot of maham performed by ashwinee

For this is a dissembler par excellence, who can dissolve into real tears on cue, and berate Adham, her voice nearly suspended in deep distress, for even daring to think that she could have done it (Adham's expression as he leaves seems dubious and unconvinced, however, maybe he knows his mother too well to be convinced by all her nautanki😉) . No one else, listening to her then, could have failed to be convinced that she was innocent. I was so convinced, all over again.

A split personality: Then comes the unveiling of the truth. With it, there was something else that sets Maham and her crime apart from the common, garden variety of poisoners down the ages. It is as if she has a split personality, and that now, looking at herself in the mirror of her soul, she would like to forget that she had done it. As Alakh put it so well on my old thread, a part of her doesn't want to accept what she did, for she is always torn between Adham and Jalal.

It is true that Maham loves Adham more than Jalal, but it is probably also true that Jalal is the son she would have wanted to have had. Adham must, the blood tie apart, have always been a sad disappointment for her, but she loves him beyond reason still, and she cannot change that or let him go to his fate. This is her tragedy.

The wailing, the fresh tears in her solitude after Adham has left, the breast-beating, none of it was necessary. These are not for show, for there is no one there who needs to be hoodwinked. This is all for herself, for what she has lost for the sake of Adham.

Like Oscar Wilde's Dorian Gray, who remains eternally pure and ageless and beautiful to behold, but whose portrait, kept hidden, shows every ugly wart and scar on his steadily rotting soul, Maham Anga sees her soul as black and ugly as that portrait, and she cannot stand it. That is her real punishment.

Exceptional description of her confused person ...kudos to ur deep processing😉


This revelation scene was so magisterial that I am still of two minds whether it was a tour de force on the part of the CVs, or just a serendipitous happening. It looked rather too intelligent even for the set who guide the destinies of our serial! 😉

A major reservation: I do not think a woman as intelligent as Maham Anga would believe that adaayima's son, without a drop of royal blood in him, could ever become the Shahenshah. She might have, in some early phase when Adham was being more difficult than usual, have held that out as a carrot for his reasonably good behaviour and then ended up with it like a millstone round her neck, but what she really thinks is what she tells him immediately after the Malwa encounter with Jalal, when she saves him by a whisker. That a sipahi like Jalal comes but once in centuries, and if Adham dared to stand up to him, he would blow Adham away in no time.

But her love for Adham, coupled with an ever present sense of guilt for having neglected him in his childhood, is so all-powering that it overrides both her intelligence and her commonsense.

Jalal: Admirable sensitivity: What revelation here, you might well ask. Patience, my gentle readers!

First, to those who feel that he was foolish to trust his Badiammi blindly and show her his trump card, thedibbi, I would only say No, that is not so.

For Jalal that very rare kind of king, a grateful one. At times grateful beyond what is called for, but that is a generous fault. He has had only 3 people in his life he could trust with that life, and Maham is one of them. I would think badly of him if he did not trust her till it becomes impossible.

Then it will be a crushing blow that will cripple him for a while. Remember how much it affected him when he thought that his new found trust in Jodha had been a bad mistake? How much harder would it be for him to learn that the loyalty and care of a lifetime had been corroded by baser emotions ?

But this is familiar ground. The real revelation about him last night concerned Salima. In the scene with her, Jalal (and Rajat) was throughout superbly subtle, magisterially manipulative, till he got at what he sought, the certitude that Salima was innocent as well. And then, he makes it up to her with such trusting candour, such delicacy, such admirable sensitivity for her feelings, that I was blown away. When he picks up her dupatta and drapes it round her, and assures her that for him she will always be his Khan Baba'samaanat, I was mentally standing up and applauding.

Only a man with a heart gentle enough, and perceptive enough, to feel what Salima feels then - and that would be a very rare sort of man - would have been able to do what he did to reassure and comfort her. This was a revelation...⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️


Stupendously fabulous dear ...with how much royalty and ease u highlight the point of his blind trust towards maham as well as ja's admiring persona and with all of that u also made a note that all this is performed by non other than Rt ...

As for what he promises himself - that he will never repeat the mistake he committed with Jodha, and will get at the real culprit - that was probably meant to be repeated to Jodha by Salima, and pretty soon at that.

Jodha: Unseemly behaviour: She is now revealing herself as a spoilt brat, with all the royal breeding, with its emphasis on total self-control under all circumstances, dignity and self-possession, that she presumably received in Amer , gone out of the nearest window of the palace at Agra the minute herpatidev enters the scene. Instead, in the precap, she resembles no one so much as Scarlett O'Hara, deliberately smashing a vase at Jalal's feet. Scarlett O'Hara in Gone with the Wind throws a vase at Ashley Wilkes, so I suppose Jalal should be grateful for small mercies, that it was not hurled at his head!...

Exactly he should be 😉



It was exactly like the time when she burnt the shaadi ka joda. I don't know about you folks, but I do not appreciate this kind of fishwife like behaviour. She should be grateful that Jalal is not a Petruchio, for he, whether he was badly in the wrong or not, would have given such an impertinent wife the thrashing of her life😉.

When there was criticism of Jodha, at her last confrontation with Jalal, for her relentless outpouring of resentment and fury against him, especially the chale jayiye part, I did not agree with it.I felt she was justified in doing what she did, because she was then uncontrollably angry with him, and rightly so. It was not just what he had done in terms of accusing her and her brothers. It was more his subsequent treatment of her, literally going berserk, losing all his judgment and his sense of justice, and descending to emotional cruelty amounting to sadism.

But I would not say the same now. I did not like the smashing of the vase, and I did not like the high pitched sermon Jodha launches into immediately thereafter. Jalal deserved to be told off, not just once but many times. But this is not about him. It is about a princess, now a queen, who behaves like an ill-mannered virago, when she should have been cool, dignified, collected, and aloof, while still being as off putting as she wanted to be.

Besides, the whole scene is contemporary in its tone: no 16th century queen would ever have dared to talk to the king as Jodha does to Jalal! Remember her father's admonition to Jodha before the tilak ceremony? Wo tumhare pati hai, aur unke nirnayon par sada unse sehmat rahna tumhara kartavya hai! It is rather the Ekta Kapoor version of nari shakti that is repeated in serial after serial.

Jodha-Jalal: Fatiguing confrontations: Jodha, when with Jalal, is beginning to sound monotonous. I am already bored stiff with the variations on their bitter confrontations of the last 2 weeks. Not even such a handsome pair can make that kind of stuff palatable!

As my last post would have shown, Paridhi had grown on me, both visually and in terms of her acting, and I had come to appreciate her a great deal in both these respects.

I cannot say the same of Jodha, who is, in many ways, a mirror image of Jalal, not his complementary other half. Both are arrogant , hot-headed, quarrelsome with each other, opinionated and prone to snap judgments while disregarding inconvenient facts, biased, tenacious in their prejudices that often cloud their good sense, and almost always convinced that they, and they alone, are in the right.

But of the two, Jalal is, despite being an autocratic monarch, more ready to admit his failings and mistakes, to himself and at times to others, to accept sound advice and act on it. Not so Jodha.

She routinely disregards her mother's advice, even in the most serious of situations, as when the shaadi ka joda arrives. She says whatever comes into her head when she is in a rage, and worse, she has no ability to judge a person or a situation objectively.

A provincial at heart: Plus Jodha has, strangely enough in a well educated princess, no perception of the pressures of ruling an empire, which Mansingh has even at such a young age.

It is also curious that she has no more understanding of sensitive matters of state than Motibai, and actually expects that she would be told who the real culprit is! It is left to Ruqaiya to give Jodha a lesson in confidentiality and affairs of state, along with a very sharp dressing down to this choti moti begum.Yeh siyaasi maamle hain, jinhein samajhne ki na hi aapki taab hai, aur jisme padne ki na hi aapko ijaazat!

Which, incidentally, Jodha swallows without attempting even a weak retort. Her fulminations are reserved for her patidev! ...

Agree y such lack of concern she had always with everyone and y it is more than needed she had always With ja that too is illogical...

'Impossible jodha' made by cvs

A dangerous blank cheque: Given all this, I was alarmed when Jodha's cheerleader-in-chief, Hamida Banu, stated, in the previous episode, that Jodha could do no wrong. For this will remove any remaining faint reservations our Amer ki mirchimight have had about the wisdom of her ways. Motibai has far more sense, common and otherwise, than Jodha!

It reminded me irresistibly of Archana in Pavitra Rishta, and her junior edition, Purvi (that is the only Ekta serial I watched for more than 2 months), both of whom brought disaster on all the men unlucky enough to fall for them, while swanning around with 24 carat haloes firmly in place.

In fact, I suspect the reason why the saas and the bahuhere get along so well is that they are both convinced that they are faultless and always a pattern card for others, and so everything that goes wrong is inevitably someone else's fault. Usually Jalal's.

Thus Jodha never remembers the times when she insulted Jalal, nor that when she now claims that she and her family were accused and humiliated despitesakshya ka abhaav, she is being, what else, economical with the truth, given the whopper of a clue in the poisoned kesar. Again, not so Mansingh.

Similarly. Hamida Banu never remembers all the times when she was not there for her son when he needed emotional support, most recently when he had learnt that his child was no more. It was Maham who held him close then and comforted him. Where was Hamida all that while?

The Hamida-Jodha duo thus constitutes the perfect mutual admiration society. One that is, contrary to every hallowed canon of the saas-bahu code, directed against the son/husband!😉


😆😆

But in contrast with the likes of the hapless Manav and Arjun, Jalal has one trump card. It is the ace of spades: History, where his place is secure. Not even Ekta can tamper with that to his disadvantage!

OK, so this is it for a week or so, my luck holding. Meanwhile, Jodha can smash that glass vase at Jalal's feet, then join the tafteesh brigade, and do a botched Miss Marple act with Rahim, Jalal, and Maham, in that order, while the tiger and the narnaal beckon from the distance in spoilers!

Enjoy the episodes, folks, and one fine day next week, you will find me among you all again. When that happens, I hope none of you will groan: Oh no, not so soon! 😉😉

Shyamala/Aunty/Akka/Di

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