Jodha Akbar 21-23: The heart prevails - Page 4

Originally posted by: Ash67

Dear Shyamala aunty,

Thank you, for your very kind concern for my health in the earlier post. I hope you are as well as the length of the post seems to indicate but please do not stress yourself too much.

This one is simply amazing! Loved the title! Rather than try and play catch-up, I decided to seize the here and now 😃

But I do need to learn the ways the forum posts work! I could not post my original response one as it becomes too long with my comments. I did not like the idea of just keeping those paragraphs of your post that I have commented on. So just my comments, in no particular order.

The scene before prison -

I think Jalal too knows his bachpan ki dost very well. In Jalal's hojra, Rukaiya's praise does not feel as if it is heartfelt! Her expressions are very telling!

In the prison scene -

Hamida banu -

Perhaps she, too, feels like the Rajput kings that Mughal Sultanat or rather Jalal still needs Bairam khan and is not yet capable of surviving without him? It takes a lot to make parents realise that their children have grown up. Or does she have an inkling of Maham's aspirations and is subtly trying to keep her in check or maintain the balance by keeping Bairam khan in the picture?

Just giving her the benefit of a doubt. I am sure she will prove me wrong with her next sermon😉😉

Your comment on Humayun's death had me in stitches! And now I wonder about Ekta's Jalal's death .. infection of the eardrums?

Rukaiya 1

Rukaiya 1 was certainly more subtle in showing her own and claiming Jalal's heartlessness! Or has she become heartless in her desire to win approval from Jalal who she thinks has no heart?

If we could ignore the change to Rukaiya 2(difficult but), could there be a little more to the reasons for siding with Maham that Rukaiya gives? Is she getting back at Hamida, with whom she seems to have no connection, for recognising and pointing out that there is no muhabbat between her and Jalal? that Jalal is lonely, though Hamida leaves it unsaid, in spite of Rukaiya's presence or the hold she claims on his jehen? Hamida's lack of political correctness and/or sensitivity in saying all that in Rukaiaya's and others' presence is unbelievable!

Jalal - Aunty, I think the worry is not about not yet having a child but about the why, valid I suppose given the time he has had use of his bountiful harem. Destiny seems Hamida's relative.

L'affaire Bairam Kahan

Bairam Khan's meltdown and acceptance of his gustakhi seems rather sudden. They should have shown the transition or given at least a voice over. Or have I missed something?

Is Bairam Khan killed by an old enemy on the way to Mecca? Having caught up on the earlier episodes en masse, I had for some reason thought that Maham / Adham had a hand in Bairam khan's death. And that had added a lot (for me) to the final confrontation between Jalal -Maham as I could not imagine Jalal's pain on realising the extent of Maham's vileness, when she is ranting about what Jalal did to Bairam khan. Was I wrong then?

I love the way you describe Bairam khan's "epiphany" but I don't think he (reel or real) was so noble. He did want to control both Jalal and what happened in the sultant even if he did not want the takht per se.

If he did suddenly (why and how?) realise that his earlier actions were damaging to Mughal sultanat, whyever does he not stay on? For surely he realises that his absence would weaken Jalal / Sultant or worse, would be perceived to do so?

Maham Anga -

What you say about Rukaiya a little later is true also about Maham for whom, of course, it is harder than for Rukaiya as she is no royal-born and has the class barrier to cross. It is depressing that in those times even such a strong and able woman could think of fulfilling her ambitions only through a man, whether Jalal or her own son. It is another matter that Jalal is progressive or kaccha enough to give her her wish and more!

Maham Anga-Ruqaiya 2:

Both seem to go by the maxim that an enemy's enemy is to be considered an ally!

Last Scene

Rukaiya -

In the last scene, is it also the hurt that he does not love her'; that she/ what she feels for him does not fit his definition of love and is not enough for him? For she must realise that deep down he believes in mohobbat for him to be so bitter in claiming what it does to a human being? It is agony to have to wish for something more from a relationship that means so much to you and not get it, but to realise that the one you expect it from feels the same need and you do not fulfil that need - that must be hell! Probably what Jalal too feels later (the unforgettable post-Sujamal discovery scene and your Shakespearean heights post)!

Requiem for Ruqaiya 1-

What to say of your take on Rukaiya 1? You have so wonderfully captured her essence and her nuances. Especially in the paragraph "Perhaps, more than overconfidence, it is her determination not to be seen as weak in front of Jalal that leads her to make him wait for her, and to ignore him at times, just to prove to herself, and to him, that he is not the center of her universe, as he is for everyone else. Her problem of course is that he is the centre of her universe, and she is always afraid, in her heart of hearts, that she will, one fine day, be supplanted by the mother of his heir." Hats off to you Aunty!

The old shoe love'! -

The phrase is lovely. But, I feel, the problem with the old shoe is that sometimes the comfort is only out of habit and if it does not or never did fit well it keeps hurting in the same place and causes a nasoor! On the other hand, to mix the metaphors completely, one does manage to jump the broken step of the staircase of the building one has grown up in, and to reach the desired floor!

Rajat's Jalal -

The look in Jalal's eyes as he holds her hand and kisses it! Incredible how Rajat manages to convey the difference between this feeling and love when Jalal finds it.

Jalal's ego -

"With those few for whom he cares, he has no ego." - The more he cares, the lesser the ego... So for whom he cares the most... CVs will soon master these inverse proportions too well 😉

That's all for today!

Warmest Regards

Ashwinee

My dear Ashwinee,

I see that you are up and about, sans watering eyes, which is good. As for me, I have my good days and my bad days, so I decided to roll two posts into one, inflict 8 pages plus on my long-suffering readers😉, and then take a break till Thursday next. I am glad to see that you have survived this marathon post in good shape!😉

My supplementary responses to your extremely interesting comments are in blue.

Shyamala Aunty

Originally posted by: Ash67

Dear Shyamala aunty,

Thank you, for your very kind concern for my health in the earlier post. I hope you are as well as the length of the post seems to indicate but please do not stress yourself too much.

This one is simply amazing! Loved the title! Rather than try and play catch-up, I decided to seize the here and now 😃

But I do need to learn the ways the forum posts work! I could not post my original response one as it becomes too long with my comments. I did not like the idea of just keeping those paragraphs of your post that I have commented on. So just my comments, in no particular order.

There is nothing wrong with using only those paras of mine about which you are commenting. That has the added advantage of your readers being able to see what you are talking about without going back to the main post on page 1.

The scene before prison -

I think Jalal too knows his bachpan ki dost very well. In Jalal's hojra, Rukaiya's praise does not feel as if it is heartfelt! Her expressions are very telling!

He says something like that all the time - as when he sees that portrait of his. That is what I call his Gatti mode, bickering and playing mind games. It is the same, for the most part, on her side as well. I was thinking, when I watched them, about how difficult it is to move from friendship to love. There is a huge amount of awkwardness, for one thing, and then one is afraid that if the friend does not reciprocate one's romantic love, the friendship too might be lost. In fact it will be lost, inevitably, as embarassment and hichkichahat at every turn replace the easy candour of simple friendship.

In the prison scene -No, my dear, not the prison scene. You surely mean the Teen Devian scene before Jalal decides to do battle with his Khan Baba.

Hamida banu -

Perhaps she, too, feels like the Rajput kings that Mughal Sultanat or rather Jalal still needs Bairam khan and is not yet capable of surviving without him? It takes a lot to make parents realise that their children have grown up. Or does she have an inkling of Maham's aspirations and is subtly trying to keep her in check or maintain the balance by keeping Bairam khan in the picture?

This would be entirely logical, except that if Bairam Khan has actually taken to the field against the Shahenshah, he has gone too far to be pardoned and taken back. But going by Begum Saridon's track record in such matters, I would be inclined to believe that it was pure and simple bhalayi on her part, plus gratitude towards Bairam Khan.

Just giving her the benefit of a doubt. I am sure she will prove me wrong with her next sermon😉😉

Your comment on Humayun's death had me in stitches! And now I wonder about Ekta's Jalal's death .. infection of the eardrums? Jalal or Humayun?

Rukaiya 1

Rukaiya 1 was certainly more subtle in showing her own and claiming Jalal's heartlessness! Or has she become heartless in her desire to win approval from Jalal who she thinks has no heart? I think it is the latter, especially in the prison scene when she states that the two prisoners should both be killed simultaneously.

If we could ignore the change to Rukaiya 2(difficult but), could there be a little more to the reasons for siding with Maham that Rukaiya gives? Is she getting back at Hamida, with whom she seems to have no connection, for recognising and pointing out that there is no muhabbat between her and Jalal? that Jalal is lonely, though Hamida leaves it unsaid, in spite of Rukaiya's presence or the hold she claims on his jehen? Hamida's lack of political correctness and/or sensitivity in saying all that in Rukaiaya's and others' presence is unbelievable!

Getting back at Hamida would not weigh as much as the ultimate impact, on the Mughal sultanate, of Bairam Khan's elimination. I think Ruqaiya 2 wants Jalal to be No.1 above all, and if Hamida gets taken down a peg in the process, why not?

Jalal - Aunty, I think the worry is not about not yet having a child but about the why, valid I suppose given the time he has had use of his bountiful harem. Destiny seems Hamida's relative.

That is true, my dear. By rights, with a harem this size, the place should have been overflowing with kids of all shapes and sizes!

L'affaire Bairam Khan

Bairam Khan's meltdown and acceptance of his gustakhi seems rather sudden. They should have shown the transition or given at least a voice over. Or have I missed something?

You have read my exchanges with Donjas about this point, so you know my take on it. I think there is something missing from the script: they should have at least put in a voice over to bridge the gap between the DEK blowup and Bairam Khan's fulminations to Salima on the one hand, and this surrender on the other. They should have clarified as to whether there was any move towards a reconciliation from Jalal's side, or from that of Bairam Khan, and if so, what happened to it.

Is Bairam Khan killed by an old enemy on the way to Mecca? Having caught up on the earlier episodes en masse, I had for some reason thought that Maham / Adham had a hand in Bairam khan's death. And that had added a lot (for me) to the final confrontation between Jalal -Maham as I could not imagine Jalal's pain on realising the extent of Maham's vileness, when she is ranting about what Jalal did to Bairam khan. Was I wrong then?

No, you were not wrong. In this serial, it is not Maham, but Adham who alerts an old enemy of Bairam Khan's about the latter's arrival in Patan ( in today's Gujarat) to board a ship for Saudi Arabia. That chap promptly takes his revenge.

I love the way you describe Bairam khan's "epiphany" but I don't think he (reel or real) was so noble. He did want to control both Jalal and what happened in the sultanat even if he did not want the takht per se.

If he did suddenly (why and how?) realise that his earlier actions were damaging to Mughal sultanat, whyever does he not stay on? For surely he realises that his absence would weaken Jalal / Sultant or worse, would be perceived to do so?

Now your latter point is very well taken, but let me take the first one first. It is not that Bairam Khan was noble, my dear, it is just that, like Ratnakar the dacoit, who later became Rishi Valmiki, he suddenly realised the folly of his ways. Yes, he did want to control both Jalal and the Mughal sultanate, but that was because he was convinced that he was the one best equipped to steer the ship of state,and that Jalal was simply not equipped yet to do so.

As to why then he does not stay on, I think he realises that Jalal's ways of governance and his might often clash, and this might lead to future rifts. He cannot be the Wazir-e-Aala again, and no lesser post would satisfy him. So he wants to cut himself off from all this and, as he says, apne gunahon ka bhoj kam karna. That often happens after an epiphany, there is a drastic change of direction. I think he also believes that Jalal is now strong enough to rule on his own.

Maham Anga -

What you say about Rukaiya a little later is true also about Maham for whom, of course, it is harder than for Rukaiya as she is no royal-born and has the class barrier to cross. It is depressing that in those times even such a strong and able woman could think of fulfilling her ambitions only through a man, whether Jalal or her own son. It is another matter that Jalal is progressive or kaccha enough to give her her wish and more!

Maham Anga-Ruqaiya 2:

Both seem to go by the maxim that an enemy's enemy is to be considered an ally!

Last Scene

Rukaiya -

In the last scene, is it also the hurt that he does not love her'; that she/ what she feels for him does not fit his definition of love and is not enough for him? For she must realise that deep down he believes in mohobbat for him to be so bitter in claiming what it does to a human being? It is agony to have to wish for something more from a relationship that means so much to you and not get it, but to realise that the one you expect it from feels the same need and you do not fulfil that need - that must be hell! Probably what Jalal too feels later (the unforgettable post-Sujamal discovery scene and your Shakespearean heights post)!

Very well, put, my dear. These are the tragedies of unrequited love. But for Ruqaiya, it must be worse hell when someone else comes along who can fulfil that need. Ah, you have read my Shakespearian heights post, have you? That must have been during your silent era, for you never commented on that; I would have remembered your name or even your id if you had. I am so glad that you have broken your mounvrat now!

Requiem for Ruqaiya 1-

What to say of your take on Rukaiya 1? You have so wonderfully captured her essence and her nuances. Especially in the paragraph "Perhaps, more than overconfidence, it is her determination not to be seen as weak in front of Jalal that leads her to make him wait for her, and to ignore him at times, just to prove to herself, and to him, that he is not the center of her universe, as he is for everyone else. Her problem of course is that he is the centre of her universe, and she is always afraid, in her heart of hearts, that she will, one fine day, be supplanted by the mother of his heir." Hats off to you Aunty!

Thank you, my dear!

The old shoe love'! -

The phrase is lovely. But, I feel, the problem with the old shoe is that sometimes the comfort is only out of habit and if it does not or never did fit well it keeps hurting in the same place and causes a nasoor! On the other hand, to mix the metaphors completely, one does manage to jump the broken step of the staircase of the building one has grown up in, and to reach the desired floor!

No, no, Ashwinee, this phrase is used only for old shoes that do not bite! 😉 It might be after a lot of application of oil to the leather to soften it, but with time it fits perfectly, with an ease and a comfort level that are both very high. It is not used for a permanently ill-fitted pair. So there is no question of any nasoor developing over time. In such a relationship, the small friction points have been ironed out with the oil of patience and understanding, and now the two are so perfectly attuned to each other that neither can think of life without the other.

Rajat's Jalal -

The look in Jalal's eyes as he holds her hand and kisses it! Incredible how Rajat manages to convey the difference between this feeling and love when Jalal finds it.

Jalal's ego -

"With those few for whom he cares, he has no ego." - The more he cares, the lesser the ego... So for whom he cares the most... CVs will soon master these inverse proportions too well 😉

That's all for today!

Warmest Regards

Ashwinee

Beautiful comments, my dear, very well thought out and coherently expressed. My felicitations!

My dear Deepa,

You cannot imagine how relieved I am that you, and so many others, lasted thru this marathon post (actually 2 posts combined into one so that I could take a break till the coming Thursday), and then actually enjoyed it so much. Thanks a ton, my dear girl!

Apart from your delightful bowing heads, I also loved your take on Begum Saridon A tall personality with short lines n thoughts. I have never before seen this put so crisply and tellingly!

I shall look out for your detailed comments when you have the time for them.

Shyamala Aunty

Originally posted by: Deepasub

👏 What a spell blindingly fantastic assessment Aunty!

Feel I just had a sumptuous meal.

As mentioned to you eaflier, I love to read long commentaries.

Jalal Bairam khan confrontation was the coming of age celebration on one angle and letting go of the kid he groomed on the other.

The rest of the drama was needed as a prelude and epilogue to the seemingly amazing plot.

Another thing I totally didn't get is what was MM Hamidhaji was doing looking depressed as u mentioned. For God sake she was the mother of the emperor. Surely there could have been better NR n better lines construed for her. A tall personality with short lines n thoughts.

Will come back ...with more tomorrow. Need to digest the big meal.

😉

Now this, my dear Devki, sounds suspiciously like a cop out! 😉Never mind, if and when you think if something else to put down, please do so. I am not going to start a new thread till Thursday, and that is 3 days away. I always enjoy your comments, you know that!

Shyamala Aunty

Originally posted by: devkidmd

This is like Burger king's double whopper for me. First, Aunty's excellent analysis on this group of episodes followed by Ashwinee's(Ash67) superb take.

Ashwinee has managed to say everything I wanted to in a very eloquent and concise manner.

Devki

My dear Lavanya,

Oh Lord, teaching maths to a kid who does not enjoy it can be tough, I would imagine, though I never had to go thru that particular ordeal. I hope he tames the dragon in today's battle! By the way, what would so many of us do without Harry Potter? 😉

My comments are in blue.

Shyamala Aunty

Originally posted by: Sabdabhala

ANOTHER GREAT POST, AUNTY.

I APOLOGIZE FOR THE DELAY IN RESPONSE. ACTUALLY MY SON SEEMS TO HAVE BECOME A LIFE MEMBER OF " MATHS IS A VAMPIRE" CLIB AND HENCE WE SPENT THE LAST COUPLE OF DAYS DOING " RIDIKKULOUS" TO THE VAMPIRE, WITH THE HOPE THAT IT TURNS I TO SOMETHING FUNNY 😉 ALAS, NO SUCH LUCK. BUT THE BATTLE WITH THE VAMPIRE IS TODAY, AND SO I AM BACK

YOUR POST IS AS PERFECT AS IT ALWAYS IS. I REALLY HAVE NOTHING MUCH TO ADD TO IT

Thank you so much, my dear, for wading thru these 8+ pages and stll having such good things to say about the post!

JUST A FEW MINOR POINTS -

IN THAT WONDERFUL HAMAM SCENE BETWEEN JALAL AND RUKKAIAH, WHY WERE THE JODHA IN PAALKI SCENE AND PAAYAL SCENE? I THOUGHT IT SORT OF TOOK AWAY FROM THAT MOST BEAUTIFUL SCENE I agree with you in toto. That was the CVs' ham-handed way of signalling that there would be a begum coming along who would nullify all these solemn promises of Jalal's, not directly - for he always has that special place for Ruqaiya - but indirectly.

WHY DOES JALAL STATE WITH SUCH VEHEMENCE THAT HE DOES NOT LOVE RUKKAIAH? IT IS THE CLOSEST RELATIONSHIP THAT HE HAS WITH A WOMAN CLOSE TO HIS AGE, THEN WHY AND WHERE FROM DOES HE GET SUCH IMMENSE CLARITY THAT WHAT HE SHARES WITH HER IS NOT LOVE

SOMEHOW I FELT A LITTLE SAD WITH HIS CONFESSION. I think that is because of the way in which Farida and Hamida define mohabbat. it is daunting for someone who has never experienced it, with all that mar mitna and 1,2,3! He sees his relationship with Ruqaiya as a comfortable friendship, no more, and he is satisfied with it for now. He does not connect this comfort level that he has with his Gatti with mohabbat.

WHILE DOING THE POOJA IN THE RIVER WHY DO JODHA'S BROTHERS WEAR THE POONAL OR JANEYU? They are all kshatriyas, and thus dwijas or the twice-born, along with the brahmanas. So like them, they too wear the janevu.

RUKKAIAH 2 WAS SO DRASTICALLY DIFFERENT IT ALMOST FELT LIKE CVS HAD WRITTEN ANOTHER CHARACTER. HE WAS UNNECESSARILY RUDE TO JODHA. AND WHY DID RUKKAIAH SAY SHE IS MALLIKA E HIND 😆. ITS ACTALLY FUNNY WHEN JODHA SAYS - YE ZAMEEN UPAR WALE KI HAI - I MEAN REALLY??? 😆

AND YES THE JALAL - BAIRAM KHAN SCENE WAS JUST TOO SUPERB. AND YOUR DESCRIPTION IS SO COMPLETELY APT. AND MAHAM, WHAT CAN I SAY, WALLAH!! Thank you, my dear. I loved writing that and I was happy with the way it came out;

FOR ALL THAT KHAN BABA DID FOR JALAL, HIS MINOR TRESPASSES AND LACK OF THE ABILITY TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT TIME HAD COME FOR HIS PROTEGE TO TAKE OVER, COST HIM DEAR, AND ALSO COST JALAL DEAR True.

IT IS A QUESTION TO PONDER OVER THAT IF BAIRAM KHAN HAD DEFEATED MAHAM AT THIS STAGE, WHAT WOULD HAVE BECOME OF JALAL AND THE MUGHAL SULTANATE. I think that over time, Jalal would have asserted his own, softer style of govemment, with far greater stress on looking after the awaam and on being inclusive of his subjects of all religions. Ruqaiya would have had her kid and if it had been a girl, she would have made its life miserable😉. Jodha would have appeared in due course, and from then onwards, I suppose things would have been the same as now.

What I would have liked to have seen is Bairam Khan' s reaction to the Amer alliance!

Wonderful analysis Shyamala Di! And very interesting statements to all participants.
Some of my thoughts, as not very good health in that days write many ...
Farida. I think that Farida was younger and Jalal and Rukia. And, perhaps, she hoped that all "somehow will dissolve" 😛 What she is pregnant they has learned from the doctor. Can be she further concealed because she is by a youth, stupidity, naivety.
Well, and to say: "the child is not yours," need courage, even if the husband - not the emperor.😊
Hamida. I read that she was married to Humayun when she was 12, and Humayun-about 36. I do not think that even in those days, a girl of 12 years was ready for such a relationship. And, perhaps, when she speaking of mutual love, Hamida has a view of the future happiness of child if the parents do not love each other?
Resentment Jalal in childhood on the mother somehow can understand, especially when near there is so manipulative as Mahamana.
But as is an adult man, and having a harem of several thousand women, he was well aware that a woman in his world does can't NOTHING. She is obliged to obey her father, brother, family, husband. Interestingly, in him the male understanding of the world he never accused Humayun, that on his orders Hamida had left him. Although it was infantile, but psychologically understandable.

Originally posted by: Sandhya.A

Res...gulp...again!

Accumulating arrears!😲

i too m falling behind😕..so many things came up all at once!

Originally posted by: myviewprem

On the horns of a dilemma:

Now its important for us to note- why did Bairam Khan actually revolt? As per real history Maham called Akbar to Delhi and instiagted him against BK and Akbar was only too willing to listen as he also had enough of BK making decisions on his behalf and be independent. And BK was angry when he heard jalal wanted him to relive off his post and rebelled and a war was waged and he was brought in chains before Akbar. And the rest as they say is history that is known to all.

In serial they give it a twist about taqatmal case where Ak wants to forgive and return kingdom but BK does not want and his killing Ak loyalists. Here BK is angry not only at jalal but this is a fight for supermacy over Maham on who is more close to Ak, is it BK or Maham? Like BK says that if Ak chooses Maham, Mughal empire is doomed and he shall not let his hard work go in vain. Here BK fight is more agianst Maham than an Ak and when he realized that Maham had almost all on her side including Ak he gave up. Its like a wife and mother fighting over a son, finally the wife usually wins and mother is relegated to a corner without any power.

Here, there are two distinct points to analyse. And let us remember that all these discussions are wrt the serial, not real history.

1) Whether Maham had in fact succeeded in bringing Jalal totally over to her way of thinking about Bairam Khan.

The answer to this is No. Even when Maham is haranguing him solo, Jalal is still thinking of how his Khan Baba consoled him after his father's death and how he proclaimed him the Badshah--e-Hindustan. She is never sure of him. Till Ruqaiya tilts the balance, Maham is on very shaky ground. Earlier too, when she reads him a lecture on how sakht the takht is, he does not give in and a little earlier, he is saying Hum unki hi badaulat hain.

And as soon as Jalal comes out of the gates of the fort, and sees his Khan Baba, he melts in an instant, and all of Maham-Ruqaiya's hard won victory has collapsed.

2)Whether Bairam Khan was convinced that Maham had in fact succeeded in bringing Jalal totally over to her way of thinking about the Wazir-e-Aala.

You say that he was. I cannot see any proof, in the script, that he was indeed so convinced. He is a fighter, and after the DEK showdown with Jalal ( for which, incidentally, Maham can take no credit, other than for sending Takhatmal's man to Jalal), as he tells Salima, he believes that if Jalal chooses Maham over him, Bairam Khan, it will be very bad for him. It is after this that he goes and confronts Maham and threatens her. At that point of time, there is NO indication that he intends to abandon the post of Wazir-e-Aala. Clearly he does NOT believe at this point that all is lost for him because Maham has completely won over Jalal.

The next scene we see with Bairam Khan is the surrender scene. Clearly there is a major gap and a disconnect between these 2 scenes that the script has not bothered to fill with a voice-over. I have discussed this point in some detail with Donjas on page 4 above, and you might like to take a look at those posts.

My take is the one I have set out in the post, that Bairam Khan has an epiphany, and undergoes a drastic change of outlook. The rest follows. I can see nothing in the script to endorse the theory that this hardened warrior simply caved in because he felt Maham had won Jalal over.

Why did BK not accept any subha offered by AK but wanted to go to haj? Because he realized Maham had won and she will not keep quiet and trouble him again and again instigating Ak against him. Instead of getting humiliated repeatedly he went away. Now he had no idea she had even planned his murder on the way in hands of an ex afghan rivals son.

In his place, after having been the chief minister of the Mughal sultanate, that too with unprecedented powers, I too would hardly want to be a subedar! It need not have anything to do with Maham. It would have been an intolerable demotion per se. The same goes for being an advisor to Jalal. Bairam Khan is too used to commanding everything he deals with, and he cannot fit into a subordinate position any longer.

Ruqaiah only helped take a final decision which was in good stead for her husband to be free of BKs influence and complete independence(which he never will get till Maham dies in reality that Ruq never understood)

Maham played her role well and like a machivellian master player in the bull or gladiator rings has the bull by its horns(BK is the bull and the red clothe is Akbar she uses to instigate BK, Ruqaiah is the one who flags off this fight)

Of guilt and redemption:

BK surrenders because he has no option, majority mughal army is loyal to Akbar not BK in reality. Secondly BKs family lives inside agra fort and his wives and son life is in danger. Thirdly he realizes that Maham has a stangehold on Akbar that he can no longer remove so best to leave Ak to his fate and go away to another pasture.

I agree with the italicised part completely.

The most poigant scene is when BK stands his hands in surrender in front of Akbar at agra gate. That one moment is the final nail in coffin of relation between a foster father and son, between a teacher and pupil. Now in front is an emperor and a bhaagi, no one else. Despite Ak dropping his sword at his feet and kneeling and embracing BK and forgiving him for revolt, there is no longer a relation a soul in their relation. BK is humbled and humiliated in front of mughal empire and all those soldiers present there commanded by him once upon a time. Ak tries hard to save his respect and face in front of all buttt cannot. For the rest of world here is an emperor forgiving a traitor who was previously his foster father and teacher. The world no longer respects BK except a few like Hamida who are still grateful.

Can you just imagine what a fall it is for BK - commander of more than 2-3 lakhs soldiers, prime minister of an empire that comprises of the present 7-8 countries and 10 crore and more people calling him a traitor and treating him as one? No matter what Ak says or does BK is finished. Any other man would have committed suicide after such a fall, but BK has seen life, he has seen ups and downs of life, from a small soldier and commander of Persian army he has risen to these levels. He also has his wives and son to care for, he cannot wallow in his disgrace and do something stupid can he? No not really, so he endures these humiliations, the hateful eyes, the mocking faces with silence of a man whose fights reflect in the wrinkles on his face and the baggage under his eyes.

BK epitomizes the phrase- when a strom comes a tree bends only to stand tall again after the strom

Compare that to Maham when adham is killed - when strom comes the tree tries to stand tall but falls away and dies

What a contrast in Jalal's Khan baba and badi ammijaan?

Yes, it is a huge fall, but he triumphs over it, and his exit has a certain dignity that is extremely moving. It could well be said of Bairam Khan that nothing in his tenure as the Wazir-e-Aala became him like the leaving of it, with apologies to Shakespeare!

Epiphany:

Like i said long back BK and Akbar clash is of two generations gap, Bk thinks to rule you have to create fear and Ak thinks you can do it by being lenient. That is whole crux off their fight. Bk being mature can see through Maham's evil design that Ak cannot even imagine. As soon as BK does bhagawat look at reaction of other kings- they want to revolt too and attack Akbar as they think he is vulnerable, BK was his daal till now.

But Ak is well trained by BK to handle bhagawats and in wars and also Ak is no 17 year old minion deer cub that will bleat in fear looking at enemies calling out for protection he is a lion cub which can face animals 50 times their body weight without fear. And for that we have to thank his teacher and foster father BK for bringing him up so fearlessly instilling in him confidence to take on world. No matter how brave a kid is if his parents stop him and protect him he will turn into a scary, approval seeking adult(like later mughal emperors after aurangzeb). BK never did that and always let him free and to face world from young age to make him brave.

Well said!

Ruqaiah 1 and Ruqaiah 2

Ruqaiah 1 is a Queen no matter the acting capabilities

Ruqaiah 2 is a souten and vamp with no royal or Queenly qualities


A perfect summing up!

The hamaam scene:

Hum apni bachpan ki dost se wada karte hain ki chahe hamari zindagi mein kitni hi begumein kyon na aayein, hamari Ruqaiya Begum ka darja unse kayi guna upar hoga...kyonki kabhi bhi, koyi bhi, hamari Ruqaiya Begum ki jagah nahin le sakta.

I am surprised an emperor shall call his wife that too first one in DEA and scold her like that. No emperor would ever do that ever and specially not to his childhood friend and cousin sister. Ruqaiah is humbled by takes hit on her chin and leaves like a commoner doing Konish.

He should never have done that, either to Ruqaiya or to Bairam Khan. That is what I had written in this post:

Maham is helped a lot by Jalal being so kaan ka kachcha. He should never have dragged either Ruqaiya or Bairam Khan to the DEK. Even a subordinate is best scolded in private, there is then no sense of public humiliation that rankles and becomes a nasoor, and one gets the thing better sorted out. Instead, he displays a Pavlovian reflex, with Maham pushing his right buttons. So Maham' s success is directly due to Jalal's folly.

She then heads to hamam and finds fault with all that maids are doing and chases them off to surprise of Ak and whe he thinks she will come and give him bathe she starts walking off. She does not stop when he calls and only turns when he throws water at her playfully. Then she apologies and requests him not to shout or humiliate her in front of world as people shall then make fun of their relationship behind her back. Jalal forgets that people change with time, he too changes with time and more favourite wives will come and take her place later on. But Ruqaiah holds on to this promise as real that causes her heartache in future.

But while their inchoate hatred and ill-will might not touch her, and Jalal is willing to overlook her many near impertinences because of his fondness for his only childhood playmate, I felt that she is at times squandering her hold on him and pushing her luck too much. He is not just a man, with the normal masculine ego. He is an emperor, and a famous warrior who has never known defeat. Whatever his indulgence towards her, it cannot be presumed upon heedlessly without eroding it. And when she gets around to grasping this, it might well be too late.

Men anyways have egos because they are primary providers and protectors of family. They therefore expect to command respect, command undivided attention when they are at a place. Ruqaiah was treating him like in childhood ways only i think, she never realized when her kid friend jalal had become this big male egoistic emperor who needs big boosts to his ego, he loves women who defy him but to a limit, he loves women who fight with him but shall always allow him dignity of win or credit of win, he is ok with woman who abuse him provided he has abused them before(does it not remind of jodha).

Till Ak fell in love with jodha she was not this male killer who makes man dance to her tune like she became later. She played sword fight with him but was not aggressive(like later sword fight in mathura track at amer), she was angry and non obedient but never in front of others(how she sat on boat ride or came to his bedroom to sleep etc) she never crossed her limits in public usually till he was hook line and sinker wrapped in her thumb like a putty to be played around. And when he was in tears she was always by his side hugging him, consoling him, encouraging him etc like a mother.

Basically Jodha replaced Maham in his life- before when Bakshi betrayed him he ran to maham to cry, later on Ruqaiah betrayed him he ran to jodha. She became more of his mother guiding him, correcting him, mollyfying him, giving a shoulder to cry etc than a wife. But usually that happens most men want a mother only in their wife. Ruqaiha failed to understand that she was more of a friend and wife than a mother and wife that jodha was.

Spot on!

The problem, to my mind, is that she does not - bar the instance of the portrait, where she is, for once, gentle and demonstrative - show a similar caring for him. Their interactions are more like mind games, where she mostly wins and he does not, contrary to his usual mindset, seem to mind losing. There is no indication, on her side, of a deep need for him to be with her, as a person she loves, not only as the emperor. As for him, he thinks first of her for advice when he faces a dilemma, but that seems to be more as a trusted and valued confidante and a very dear friend than as a beloved. Neither haunts the consciousness of the other.

This does not mean that there is no love between them. It is rather that it is what Mira Nair described in her wonderful A Monsoon Wedding as 'old shoe love'.

The problem here lies in the time line of relation- Ak and Ruqaiah married at age of 9 years when all they did was paint, play hide and seek, climb trees and pluck magoes etc. For Ruq marriage life for long was never about any physical relation- in those times women matured later, till then even if they married they stayed in parents house or for Ruq as she has no parents and sibling and Akbar is her first cousin she stayed with him at agra fort. And when she was young they must have stayed in zenana - womens section together for boys moved out only after 13 years. So Ak was more of a buddy to Ruqaiah than a husband.

Same for Ak, she was his friend with whom he played games, teased, pushed, shoved, screamed none of which he ever did with any of his other wives, cocubbines or maids ever. Between all other women the gap was clear that of husband or master and a wife or slave that of subservient relation. With Ruqaiah this was not there, Ruq considered him as her equal as she was with him from as young as 5 years old. So she never thought she must please him by dressing up, serving him, giving him shoulders to cry etc if he want her he shall ask her or come to her is her idea. That is even Aks idea of Ruqaiah. If she wants she will ask him, he need not guess and give or ask.

With other wives and cocubbines its more formality based he gifts them, he asks what they want, he thinks what to give to please them as he does not know them from childhood, they are a mystery to him so he gets attracted to them especially jodha as she is different religion, different culture and dressing up than them.

With Ruqaiah its taken for granted as with Ak she takes for granted that he will understand, buttt buttt that works at young age not later, later on you start craving for attention for respect of emperor that rest give except your childhood friend Ruqaiah etc. You crave for new gifts, new experiences that is human nature. So Ak moves on to Jodha but Ruqaiah has no one to move on to. If it was 21st century may be should would move on and marry again. But here she has no such luck.

I agree with all this completely.

What is Akbar actually so intruged with jodha-

Is it her beauty?

Is it revenge? that she kept sword on his neck

Is it love at first sight?

It is one and only beauty- he first goes to amer after hearing a soldier praise her beauty. Love and revenge comes later much later. So he is smitten at first sight in her palaki and follows her to ghat. Ak was an emperor an young one 19-20 years old and here he hears of one so beautiful that even a commoner can give his life to possess her for one time. So he sets out to see and judge for himself and here he is smitten like a filmstar crush on jodha. He wants to possess her, make her his own and tell the world- here the most beautiful girl in hindustan belongs to me. Not much of love and revege as to possess.

I would go along with this is in theory, and though the first sight of Jodha in her palki is hardly such as to sweep a man like Jalal off his feet😉, let us agree that beauty lies in the eyes of the beholder! But I would prefer to think that there was some sort of predestined soul connection between them, unbeknownst to Jalal himself.

L'affaire Farida, or Uff, yeh mohabbat!!:

Firstly, the whole Fatima story is very curious. It seems incredible that the son of a baandi can inherit the throne; it is in fact nonsense. The heir would have to be the son of a high born begum, not of a concubine. Nonetheless, it is evident that the arrival of a child, his first, would absorb Jalal so much that Ruqaiya's standing with him would slip. Whence her evident relief at the 3 month revelation, and Jalal's just as evident anger. It is thus a candid take on the ground realities of life in a harem, even if an imperial one!

While Jalal snarls his dissent, Ruqaiya, understandably, looks appalled. She has it difficult enough as things are - what with baandis producing kids while she has none, and other haremites forever yapping at her heels 😉- and the idea of having to handle a mohabbat mein deewana Jalal must have seemed like a nightmare.

In muslims especially mughals a cocubbine or maid son could become a emperor. Indeed a few mughal emperors were born to cocubbines or secondary wives too. So i do not find any surprise in cocubbine and maid giving birth to a son who becomes emperor. In muslims a son is a son a daughter is a daughter of emperor no matter if born to royal princess, cocubbine or maid. All have equal chance and equal respect in fathers house. Please read mughal harem books to know more on this.

Indeed by all accounts majority Akbars kids were from cocubbines and maids only especially Murad. If you read mughal harem books, these women had no companion for long and left by emperor for years forgotten in their harem. So they used to have these small affairs with agra fort inmates be it nobels, ministers, soldiers or servants too. Hence to avoid another mans son being termed as emperors and become prince, a person was appointed to keep all the timelines of when emperor spent time with his wife, cocubbine or maid(even royal wives). If the date of conception did not match emperors visit woe bid that lady she is as good as dead.

There is one story of Salim married to some lady(most probably arranged marriage by parents) and she became pregnant and Jehangir was told its not his child and found she had an affair with some man. Jehangir was furious and ordered both their deaths but in morning in sober mood forgave and sent them off.

So all emperors had these people who kept accounts of the dates when emperor visited which lady. Even many hindu kings kept similar tracks on their wives and cocubbines so not only mughal culture. This is just to ensure your own blood becomes a king/emperor.

Otherwise it shall turn out to be like King of England mess up where a child born out of wedlock shall become ruler.

This is all very interesting and extremely practical too! But I still find it difficult to believe that a baandi's son could become the heir to the throne. A concubine like Daulat Shad is a different matter, for she has a higher status. Of the 6 first Mughal emperors, none was born to a baandi Which of the ones after Aurangzeb has a baandi for a mother? I would be very interested to know this.

And if the son of a baandi was older than the son of a royal begum, which of them would inherit?

Ruqaiah and Jodha

Ruqaiah is empress of mughal empire, i doubt she shall go to market like in public. All people shall be cleared from market before she visits or market will go to her khema. And the soldiers shall never allow a rajkumari be it jodha or anyone to answer back to them or their empress. This is more for film effect.

I agree completely. Moreover, it was very odd to see a Rajput princess going about in public without a veil.