Churning of the Ocean; note on pg 15 - Page 8

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ngayou thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#71

Originally posted by: ..Anusha..

Gayathri, Jalal is by no means in any sane state as far as anything goes. But it's been put down to his confusion about God more than his feelings about Jodha. He can't process any relationships...does not want to. Plenty of rulers have asserted their need to be left alone, but I doubt Akbar was this mal- adjusted so yes I agree with you that this is a bit unfair for such a personality. This is just dramatic license but with a somewhat better reason than before.



Anush, I d have been more for this track if it had been shown that Jallu felt guilt for trusting all the wrong persons into his household & never learning from previous treacheries. But here nothing like that was shown & as usual , it s left to us viewers to put whatever interpretation we like on the reasons for the whys & wherefores. If this jalladpan is to justify for Akbar s Chittoor massacre as is quite probable, still couldn't they have shown more convincing reasons. The JA CVs always seem to fall far short of writing any kind of logical or convincing explanations for most of their tracks since Benazir 😕
1003116 thumbnail
Posted: 11 years ago
#72

Originally posted by: sashashyam

Sensitive and anguished, my dear Sandhya, and I am glad I stumbled on this. But is there no rational thinking or logic left either in Jodha or in Jalal?

Now both of them share the bitterness of their love being the cause of Hussein's death.

How, pray? If Jodha had been on her toes around Hussein, he would have survived for a day or so longer, till he was returned to Ruqaiya, which would in effect mean to Zeenat. Then he would have been poisoned at the first convenient moment. So long as Zeenat was not unmasked, Hussein's fate was in any case sealed. So, the Jodha-Jalal night, or part thereof, together only advanced the timing a bit.

Why does Jalal not grasp this, and why does Jodha not verbalise this?

All this highfalutin' stuff that you and Divya and Adiana and Khushi have been writing, which is basically to console yourself that all is not lost, begs this fundamental fact. I vastly prefer the extract from the Akbar Nama that Divya quotes so often, the one about Jalal-Jodha's sober and mature reaction to the death of the twins.

I found this whole track horribly OTT and crude,the only saving grace being the tender and deeply affectionate Jalal-Jodha scenes when he is consoling her after Hasan's death. Both the actors were pitch perfect there. Now this crass Jallad 2.0 is so artificial and forced, having been cooked up for the sole purpose of "explaining" the Chittor massacre.

As for the tilak/aarti scene, I never knew that Rajvanshi women performed this ceremony only when they had decided that the war their husbands were embarking on were morally justified dharmayuddhs!😉 Why, I had been under the mistaken impression that it was an unshakeable tradition meant to protect the warrior's life and gain him victory!!

And in the end she never applied the tilak to his forehead at all, only to the sword, and that sulkily and half-heartedly. If I had been Jalal, I would have been concerned about the efficacy of any such tilak, except of course that he wants to force her to do it to prove his point.

As for Jodha's sharp jibe about Rajvanshi blood, she has clearly forgotten all about the Raja of Panna, who was clobbered by Mansingh and Mirza Hakim for the same crime, of sheltering rebels against the Mughal rule. And does her repeated stress on the Rajvanshi angle mean that it would have been all right if the other side had been Afghans? And did Rajvanshi kings never attack one another for this very reason?

Jodha's objection that thousands of innocents would die was very strange. What did she think happened in wars waged by Rajvanshis among each other? Did she think they decided the outcome thru a dandiya match?

All in all, the only thing I liked about that scene was Jalal's face at the end, a throwback to the good old days.

But by all means carry on with this esoteric soul talk, saagarmanthan (it was Divya's determinedly positive title that brought me here in the first place) and complicated rationalisations. I for one was plain bored by Ekta's latest excess, clearly tailored for ulterior purposes.

After all, Jalal, after Hasan died, was deeply grieved but rational still. And in his heart of hearts he must have feared that Hussein too would die. Why then all this unconvincing melodrama all of a sudden? The kind of intensely protective love towards Jodha that he displayed after Hasan died - how was it transformed into this mixture of self-hatred, passing the buck, and such over loud nastikvaad? 'Your faith in God, and your love for the mother of the dead child, can survive one child's passing and that too unchanged, but it collapses into a puddle of acrid, venomous despair after the second one dies? It is too much to digest.

Then again, losing faith in God does not automatically mean that Jalal has to deprive the executioner of his daily bread and cut throats himself, and then pummel the faces of his jungi riyaaz opponents to a bloody pulp. It was stupid and fake and very crude.

It is a clumsy yo yo exercise, and it is going to take all your skills to REALLY explain it. To yourselves, that is, not to me.

Shyamala Aunty


lovely post aunty ,we need at least one practical post in here
The questions you raised are very practical ,even I was wondering what she meant by this war is anuchit because he is king and has to extend his kingdome,being princess she knew how all it works but I took it as she thought he is going to war just to run way from his pain or his way of taking it out .
Then she said thousand innocent will die as if she knew about history of chittor massAcare but I guess it is cvs ways of thinking and they can't risk her being involve in this war ,it is as simple as that ,we are going to see crying jalal after this and same story will go on.
One thing is though grief stricken parents don't think logically ,to escape guilt they blame other for misfortune ,so it was natural reaction for me ,in Hassan 's case they never knew the reason or motive ,that is why their reaction at that time was perfect ,and as usual cvs on their convinience made Salima sherlock and made her tell the whole story .
Real jajo went on to spiritual journey ,not on strike with God that we know from akbarnama
So if we think practically all this us staged to justified chittor war but does any war needs justification ?
..Anusha.. thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#73

Originally posted by: ngayou



Anush, I d have been more for this track if it had been shown that Jallu felt guilt for trusting all the wrong persons into his household & never learning from previous treacheries. But here nothing like that was shown & as usual , it s left to us viewers to put whatever interpretation we like on the reasons for the whys & wherefores. If this jalladpan is to justify for Akbar s Chittoor massacre as is quite probable, still couldn't they have shown more convincing reasons. The JA CVs always seem to fall far short of writing any kind of logical or convincing explanations for most of their tracks since Benazir 😕


maybe so Gayou, but I do feel that the tenderness of JJ's relationship came through during the tragedies and I didn't expect that, so I'm happy with some progression in the relationship. And I'm also satisfied that there's no MU between JJ. So some learning has happened but yes, the nuts and bolts of a Mughal ruler and his court is not holding up very well.


munni_rajatfan thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#74
definitely jodha has no role to play in JJ's separation & she is not at all to blamed for anything. as per jalal goes when the 1st child died he didnt knew tht he was murdered. he was definitely disheartened but the revelation of the truth tht kids were murdered broke him from inside. yes his words towards was definitely wrong but he didnt meant it. neither he used jodha's guilt to distance himself nor he actually blamed jodha. i know it came out in this way, but actually he had lost faith in love. he wanted to be away from jodha bcoz he feared tht he may loose his loved ones again. he is trying shield himself. he is definitely wrong but sumtimes when a person is completely broken he distances himself from the world without even proper reason.
sashashyam thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#75
Excellent comments, my pet. But how could Jalal have stepped up the security for Hussein when the snake was right inside the hoojra? As we would say in Tamil, varakkottai kulle peruchchaliye katti vachundu!

No, Sandhya, Kunwar Pratap was not at Chittor, otherwise he would have been in charge of the defence. His father, Maharana Udai Singh, left Chittor in charge of Jaimal (he was there at the scene when Todar Mal calls on Udai Singh and Pratap) and Patta, with about 8000 soldiers. He himself retired to the safety of his new capital of Udaipur.

So Chittor cannot be a paean to Kunwar Pratap!

Shyamala Aunty

mishtidoi thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#76
Divi, for all our deep, philosophical, romantic talks for yesterday.we got a pathetic comedy shock today 🤣
1003116 thumbnail
Posted: 11 years ago
#77

Originally posted by: mishtidoi

Divi, for all our deep, philosophical, romantic talks for yesterday.we got a pathetic comedy shock today 🤣

i am telling you they are making it rajvanshi and mugal war so I guess he did blame jodha 😕
There is no logic in that whole thing ,if mugal killed his kids attack on mc ,marched to Kabul why chittor ,they are going to make him feel guilty all the way and we know the rest
mishtidoi thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#78

Originally posted by: al_pal

i am telling you they are making it rajvanshi and mugal war so I guess he did blame jodha😕

There is no logic in that whole thing ,if mugal killed his kids attack on mc ,marched to Kabul why chittor ,they are going to make him feel guilty all the way and we know the rest



No, JB he's not going on war against Raj vanshi coz of Jo ..that's a clear No reason, as Rukku held light, Jallu tried talks, which failed and now he's reasoning has left him and he's going on war. If, MC would've attacked he would have butchered her too.
Its Jo's illogical dialogues which are giving a perception that its war due to Jo
1003116 thumbnail
Posted: 11 years ago
#79

Originally posted by: mishtidoi



No, JB he's not going on war against Raj vanshi coz of Jo ..that's a clear No reason, as Rukku held light, Jallu tried talks, which failed and now he's reasoning has left him and he's going on war. If, MC would've attacked he would have butchered her too.
Its Jo's illogical dialogues which are giving a perception that its war due to Jo

😆 why rukku is torch here .
But wait for it by the end of this and you will see in their dialogue that is why she is taking in circles 😆
mishtidoi thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#80

Originally posted by: al_pal

😆why rukku is torch here .

But wait for it by the end of this and you will see in their dialogue that is why she is taking in circles😆



Oh by Monday or Tuesday war will be over ..and our Jo begum will be new shaguni bai and jallu will be having a Asoka moment 😆
These damn CVs I tell you 😕

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