Churning of the Ocean; note on pg 15 - Page 6

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lashy thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#51
When a female neurosurgeon comes back home after an unsuccessful surgery of a child (that she lost), she shuts herself away from her family for a while - in a way neglecting them. Punishing them for something neither she was responsible for nor her family was responsible for.
Does this mean the doctor doesn't value her family?

During a very complicated natural birth and/or when a woman is in extreme pain she is known to curse, swear, wish death upon her husband (and even physically kick him out of the labour ward) 'All my woes in life are because of you' she says!
Does this mean the wife really blames her husband for this state of hers or is she just unable to cope with the physical/emotional trauma of labour?

When a parent is extremely stressed and angry about say finances/home affairs, they end up over-punishing a moderately-troublesome child. What is the child's fault? Does the child even know/understand what the parent is going through. Yet the angry parent says hurtful words like 'You are the reason for all my problems'
Does this mean the parent resents the child?

Answers to all of the above are NO

It's better for a family/child to be briefly taken care by another (could be a few minutes, an hour, a day or a week) while the person in stress deals with the root causes of the stress and then returns to normalcy. Similarly, it's better for Jodha to be taken care of by another for now. Or the palace/house would only be a permanent war camp!

It's better Jalal steps out of his palace for a while. He is doing neither himself nor Jodha any favours in his current state of mind.

Also as Abhay said, it is very difficult to justify Akbar's Chittor massacre and they've chosen this route.
All in all a very dark area of their relationship - a very grey shade of life - but who said life is anything but a differing shade of grey most days?

Edited by lashy - 11 years ago
mishtidoi thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#52
Divi, Jodha may be calm outside but the whirlpool building inside her would come out BUT only when Jalal had mellowed coz only he can take her tsunamic destruction and vice-versa😆
Right now Agra can't survive two tsunamis, one is enough and that is Jalal, being managed by Jodha...when her turn will come, Jalal had to be calm and take her all.😉...Then may be forum can celebrate😆
chitterati thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#53

Originally posted by: lashy

When a female neurosurgeon comes back home after an unsuccessful surgery of a child (that she lost), she shuts herself away from her family for a while - in a way neglecting them. Punishing them for something neither she was responsible for nor her family was responsible for.

Does this mean the doctor doesn't value her family?

During a very complicated natural birth and/or when a woman is in extreme pain she is known to curse, swear, wish death upon her husband (and even physically kick him out of the labour ward) 'All my woes in life are because of you' she says!
Does this mean the wife really blames her husband for this state of hers or is she just unable to cope with the physical/emotional trauma of labour?

When a parent is extremely stressed and angry about say finances/home affairs, they end up over-punishing a moderately-troublesome child. What is the child's fault? Does the child even know/understand what the parent is going through. Yet the angry parent says hurtful words like 'You are the reason for all my problems'
Does this mean the parent resents the child?

Answers to all of the above are NO

It's better for a family/child to be briefly taken care by another (could be a few minutes, an hour, a day or a week) while the person in stress deals with the root causes of the stress and then returns to normalcy. Similarly, it's better for Jodha to be taken care of by another for now. Or the palace/house would only be a permanent war camp!

It's better Jalal steps out of his palace for a while. He is doing neither himself nor Jodha any favours in his current state of mind.

Also as Abhay said, it is very difficult to justify Akbar's Chittor massacre and they've chosen this route.
All in all a very dark area of their relationship - a very grey shade of life - but who said life is anything but a differing shade of grey most days?


Lashy, chittor massacre was no grey area, it was not even a blip, it was a big black spot, and cvs have really pulled it off - they have done justice to both jodha and Jalal in this war , they could not have shown jodha preganancy with Jalal's children while he was ruthlessly plundering Rajputs and civilians, similarly Jalal became akbar much later, he was very much the power hungry ruthless emperor atleast till Salim was born.
Edited by chitterati - 11 years ago
lashy thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#54
Also, I don't think ANYONE can take away from Jodha's sacrifices or sufferings through this pregnancy. NO ONE. She's dealt with it with grace and come out of it with grace👏 She made a few decisions, she never looked back. I salute her for it!

Having said that, would she have been equipped to deal with such a big tragedy in her life after say - she lost her father to treachery? Realized her cousin sister/brother in law/step mother were out to kill her? Realize that her mother wished her near-dead and cursed her children before she breathed her last? That her adopted brother wanted her dead for his imperial ambitions?
Now, I think THAT would be a completely different Jodha! THAT would be a very bitter Jodha!

A thought that would be debate provoking!

Either way, Jodha was and is the stabilizing/shielding factor in Jalal's life like he has been for her just many times in the past!😊


Edited by lashy - 11 years ago
lashy thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#55

Originally posted by: chitterati


Lashy, chittor massacre was no grey area, it was not even a blip, it was a big black spot, and cvs have really pulled it off - they have done justice to both jodha and Jalal in this war , they could not have shown jodha preganancy with Jalal's children while he was ruthlessly plundering Rajputs and civilians, similarly Jalal became akbar much later, he was very much the power hungry ruthless emperor atleast till Salim was born.


I wasn't referring to Chittor. I never said Chittor was a grey area. I meant what transpired yesterday between Jalal and Jodha was a very dark/grey day in their relationship!

You've resonated what I've said that the CVs have used this route to show the Chittor massacre - because the 21st century audience cannot otherwise relate their protagonist resorting to such cruelty...
Edited by lashy - 11 years ago
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Posted: 11 years ago
#56
awww my darling behena🤗
u write so well by relating JJ to nature.⭐️
this is exactly the thing is now.
JJ r different individuals..they had the same loss, same pain..but their way of expressing sorrows r different.
Jodha got hold of herself which is kabil-e-tareef...she is very much in character...the same old fiery Rajput Princess and a responsible Mughal Begum.
Jalal too is in character..but thoda bhatak gaya hai woh...it is true whenever he has to face such unfair decision by nature he always mourned in this fashion...pehle Khuda ke paas jata tha iss baar Khuda se hi muh modli...let him give some time.
he is running away at this moment...let him run...jab bhagte bhagte thak jayega...phir laut ayega apne ghar...apni mohabbat Jodha ke paas...apne Khuda ke paas.❤️
Edited by tamy267 - 11 years ago
Sandhya.A thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#57
All through the mohabbat phase, Jalal was always vocal, expressed his love openly and wooed her explicitly. That is his nature.
Jodha never expressed her love for him even when and after vishpaan, not even when he asked her repeatedly why she drank the poison for him. But that is Jodha.

Now both of them share the bitterness of their love being the cause of Hussein's death. Jalal has again been vocal and Jodha feels the blame within. That is what Jalal meant by 'aapki razamandi yeh bayaan kar rahi hai.' Yes Divi. The blame is in her heart and on his lips. Any closeness between them at this stage would do them both more harm than good. The beauty of what was to them so close and precious has been scarred by their guilt.

Jalal and Jodha have not just lost their children but the beauty of their love too.

Jalal's guilt is making him behave the way he does now. Jallad-ism was his way to shut out his pain. It was when as a child he was betrayed by many. It is now when he feels betrayed by God who took away Atga, his badi ammi, both his sons and who twisted fate such that his very precious love became the indirect reason for the death of one And he is in a worse phase than earlier as even as Bairam Khan's protege his faith in God was intact but not now. Hence while Jalaluddin was angry with AK for killing innocents in Malwa this Akbar chose to massacre Chittor.

Jodha too is not yet out of her guilt. She gave such a sick look as moti waa watering the tulsi. Her Kanha remains still shut. She is not suffering from Jalal's attitude but more by her guilt and her anger on God.

Does Jodha accept this as she has no choice? This is a girl who defied the jallad husband of hers on their first night, who stood up against him whenever she thought that he was wrong. Who walked out when her character was questioned. She even chose to end her life twice rather than accept injustice. If she is quiet now it means she doesn't feel that Jalal is unjust to her. She knows that he is hurting and bleeding as much as she is from within and knows that his anger is only his expression of hurt while hers is silence.

For normalcy to be restored they have to overcome their guilt and their faith in their Gods have to be restored. Let us see how the cvs go about doing that.

Everything said i still feel that 3 yrs is too long a time for wounds to heal. But the pain and stretch has been extended to accommodate Chittor.


Edited by Sandhya.A - 11 years ago
divyavm thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#58
Guy, good morning 🤗
Tanks so much for all the beautiful posts ... Will be back to them soon 😳
yurimehta11 thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#59
nice post beautiful description and epi was not that bad as everyone in forum mentioning it is deprssing but its good specially the tilak scene is very well executed aur bahut din k baad jalal kuch karega bichara kitne mahine se ro raha tha aur maafi maang raha tha first sujamal track then mirchi war he is capitative then khyber atifa then child adoption after a long gap this guy is in action so for me its a nice episode with some sad strings
sashashyam thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#60
Sensitive and anguished, my dear Sandhya, and I am glad I stumbled on this. But is there no rational thinking or logic left either in Jodha or in Jalal?

Now both of them share the bitterness of their love being the cause of Hussein's death.

How, pray? If Jodha had been on her toes around Hussein, he would have survived for a day or so longer, till he was returned to Ruqaiya, which would in effect mean to Zeenat. Then he would have been poisoned at the first convenient moment. So long as Zeenat was not unmasked, Hussein's fate was in any case sealed. So, the Jodha-Jalal night, or part thereof, together only advanced the timing a bit.

Why does Jalal not grasp this, and why does Jodha not verbalise this?

All this highfalutin' stuff that you and Divya and Adiana and Khushi have been writing, which is basically to console yourself that all is not lost, begs this fundamental fact. I vastly prefer the extract from the Akbar Nama that Divya quotes so often, the one about Jalal-Jodha's sober and mature reaction to the death of the twins.

I found this whole track horribly OTT and crude,the only saving grace being the tender and deeply affectionate Jalal-Jodha scenes when he is consoling her after Hasan's death. Both the actors were pitch perfect there. Now this crass Jallad 2.0 is so artificial and forced, having been cooked up for the sole purpose of "explaining" the Chittor massacre.

As for the tilak/aarti scene, I never knew that Rajvanshi women performed this ceremony only when they had decided that the war their husbands were embarking on were morally justified dharmayuddhs!😉 Why, I had been under the mistaken impression that it was an unshakeable tradition meant to protect the warrior's life and gain him victory!!

And in the end she never applied the tilak to his forehead at all, only to the sword, and that sulkily and half-heartedly. If I had been Jalal, I would have been concerned about the efficacy of any such tilak, except of course that he wants to force her to do it to prove his point.

As for Jodha's sharp jibe about Rajvanshi blood, she has clearly forgotten all about the Raja of Panna, who was clobbered by Mansingh and Mirza Hakim for the same crime, of sheltering rebels against the Mughal rule. And does her repeated stress on the Rajvanshi angle mean that it would have been all right if the other side had been Afghans? And did Rajvanshi kings never attack one another for this very reason?

Jodha's objection that thousands of innocents would die was very strange. What did she think happened in wars waged by Rajvanshis among each other? Did she think they decided the outcome thru a dandiya match?

All in all, the only thing I liked about that scene was Jalal's face at the end, a throwback to the good old days.

But by all means carry on with this esoteric soul talk, saagarmanthan (it was Divya's determinedly positive title that brought me here in the first place) and complicated rationalisations. I for one was plain bored by Ekta's latest excess, clearly tailored for ulterior purposes.

After all, Jalal, after Hasan died, was deeply grieved but rational still. And in his heart of hearts he must have feared that Hussein too would die. Why then all this unconvincing melodrama all of a sudden? The kind of intensely protective love towards Jodha that he displayed after Hasan died - how was it transformed into this mixture of self-hatred, passing the buck, and such over loud nastikvaad? 'Your faith in God, and your love for the mother of the dead child, can survive one child's passing and that too unchanged, but it collapses into a puddle of acrid, venomous despair after the second one dies? It is too much to digest.

Then again, losing faith in God does not automatically mean that Jalal has to deprive the executioner of his daily bread and cut throats himself, and then pummel the faces of his jungi riyaaz opponents to a bloody pulp. It was stupid and fake and very crude.

It is a clumsy yo yo exercise, and it is going to take all your skills to REALLY explain it. To yourselves, that is, not to me.

Shyamala Aunty


Originally posted by: Sandhya.A

All through the mohabbat phase, Jalal was always vocal, expressed his love openly and wooed her explicitly. That is his nature.

Jodha never expressed her love for him even when and after vishpaan, not even when he asked her repeatedly why she drank the poison for him. But that is Jodha.

Now both of them share the bitterness of their love being the cause of Hussein's death. Jalal has again been vocal and Jodha feels the blame within. That is what Jalal meant by 'aapki razamandi yeh bayaan kar rahi hai.' Yes Divi. The blame is in her heart and on his lips. Any closeness between them at this stage would do them both more harm than good. The beauty of what was to them so close and precious has been scarred by their guilt.

Jalal and Jodha have not just lost their children but the beauty of their love too.

Jalal's guilt is making him behave the way he does now. Jallad-ism was his way to shut out his pain. It was when as a child he was betrayed by many. It is now when he feels betrayed by God who took away Atga, his badi ammi, both his sons and who twisted fate such that his very precious love became the indirect reason for the death of one And he is in a worse phase than earlier as even as Bairam Khan's protege his faith in God was intact but not now. Hence while Jalaluddin was angry with AK for killing innocents in Malwa this Akbar chose to massacre Chittor.

Jodha too is not yet out of her guilt. She gave such a sick look as moti waa watering the tulsi. Her Kanha remains still shut. She is not suffering from Jalal's attitude but more by her guilt and her anger on God.

Does Jodha accept this as she has no choice? This is a girl who defied the jallad husband of hers on their first night, who stood up against him whenever she thought that he was wrong. Who walked out when her character was questioned. She even chose to end her life twice rather than accept injustice. If she is quiet now it means she doesn't feel that Jalal is unjust to her. She knows that he is hurting and bleeding as much as she is from within and knows that his anger is only his expression of hurt while hers is silence.

For normalcy to be restored they have to overcome their guilt and their faith in their Gods have to be restored. Let us see how the cvs go about doing that.

Everything said i still feel that 3 yrs is too long a time for wounds to heal. But the pain and stretch has been extended to accommodate Chittor.


Edited by sashashyam - 11 years ago

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