Birbal & JA Twins Entry, Ruq Downfall Sep 27 Updt Pg 60; DTNTPg15 - Page 14

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SindhuMenon thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago

Originally posted by: al_pal

Hi Radhika ,wonderful post as usual and lot of good response . In today's epi what jodha did was stay true to her nature . She understand as women and as mother rukku's plight . Jodha always had mother instinct in her that is why she bonded so well with rahim , now bb's kid , so her view on rukku is perfect , she has not witness cries of women who is all about audha but she has witnessed a cry of mother & it is goodness of her heart which is why jalal loves her and for many more reasons of course :) .
Now rukku , we need to understand reason behind her audha possession -there has to be reason for that . The only thing she feels secure about is her position as she has lost jalal to jodha ,she can't be Salima as Salima had found love in baharam khan so now she is content with her relationship with jalal , in case of rukku becoz they grew up together and at that time maham and bk had strong grip on jalal on convincing that he does not have heart , heart is sign of weakness , so being kid by herself she never had chance to bond with jalal on heart level ,so she moulded herself as per him and only thing kept her going was her position and friendship with jalal as she saw many women come and go until jodha came , when jodha came in picture she saw jalal with heart and now she realized it could have been different for her & it is too late so her jealousy comes from deeper roots ,up till now she has her position but she can see that she is loosing that too not just title , jalal is becoming more dependend on jodha from personal problem to political one which she used to do so now she has lost both a friend who used to come 1st to her whenever he came back home , who used to take her advice on political matters and her position too so her actions are now like desperate time seek desperate measures , sad but true . Jalal found jodha , jodha has jalal , Salima had bk but what about rukku ? She is mugal princess who prides in her timur blood can't be just another begam of harem . I don't know if I make any sense but I am just trying to understand her not supporting her , so please do let me know how u guys feels .



I do agree Ruks insecurity is the root cause of all her problems which is only getting her into more and more trouble. You cannot just demand or ask for love, it just happens. She had plenty of chances to rectify herself but she did not opt for it. So Initially I did sympathize with her, but now I don't. she just cannot care for others feelings at all. Truly selfish.
Donjas thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago

Originally posted by: *Shruti*



We beg to differ. It may be a passing remark in context to you , but there can absolutely be NO justification comparing restricted forum atmosphere to massive death & human suffering period. It may have been a word of comparison for you, but you cannot deny it was intended to be a insult.


Very well done, how nicely you are trying to shift the focus of the argument. No explanation of your ridiculous rules, instead you latch on to one word and try to make it appear as if you guys are the victim here.

Let me make it clear, I am sorry for the word 'Nazi' but that one word does not negate my argument.People often say things they should not, when they are angry. The same with me. Don't try to hide behind that word to justify your autocratic ways.
Edited by Donjas - 11 years ago
1003116 thumbnail
Posted: 11 years ago

Originally posted by: SindhuMenon



I do agree Ruks insecurity is the root cause of all her problems which is only getting her into more and more trouble. You cannot just demand or ask for love, it just happens. She had plenty of chances to rectify herself but she did not opt for it. So Initially I did sympathize with her, but now I don't. she just cannot care for others feelings at all. Truly selfish.

but Sindhu look at the background jodha came from loving family hence she has self confidence , content feeling and pluse point is golden heart . Jalal and rukku had similar background , even though she is Audha obsess she had judgement of wrong and right not like jalal but she had it , after that jalal got good guide in jodha but what about rukku , she is just lost
SindhuMenon thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago

Originally posted by: al_pal

but Sindhu look at the background jodha came from loving family hence she has self confidence , content feeling and pluse point is golden heart . Jalal and rukku had similar background , even though she is Audha obsess she had judgement of wrong and right not like jalal but she had it , after that jalal got good guide in jodha but what about rukku , she is just lost



agree Jalal has Jodha now and Jodha has Jalal now. But Jodha had to go through plenty of hardships and Ruks herself has witnessed this. Those days Jodha did not have any support from her family nor from her husband.

Today when Jo was talking to Jalal about letting ruks spend time with her Kids, Jo was looking so innocent. Probably because she is not used to all these cunnigness. She always had a protected life. But that said does our life only depend on our spouse. I do not think I will sit and brood nor plot and waste my life just because I could not find someone who loves me. I will need to find ways to move on. Ruks had only 2 friends one was mamanga and other was Jalal. She did not want to depend on anyone else. But can we blame any one else for this. She made this choice. It has to come both ways. Many times Jalal has looked on Ruks for emotional support as he needed that but she failed there as her priorities were different . So Jalal moved on. She was stuck with her BEK.

I still believe she had plenty of chances to move on and if she opened herself Jalal would have supported her.

Charu.S thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
Hi Radhika,
Thank you very much for including my thoughts along with some other brilliant posts , in your discussions . I truly appreciate your gesture .

Coming to Rukkaiyya's behavior , you have so correctly pointed out ---------- "jealousy makes a person incapable of rational thinking and behavior" . I fully agree with you .

Since childhood , Rukkaiyya has been the centre of Jalal's attention . This continued till they became adults and until Jalal married the beautiful Rajvanshi princess Jodha . Rukku's world turned upside down and she could not bear to accept Jodha's presence in his life. Her jealousy towards Jodha knows no limits. It is not only troubling Jodha , Jalal and others close to them but is also tormenting her own self . It is forcing her to behave insensitively and irrationally . It is forcing her to walk on the path of self destruction .

.
MaddyO thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago

Originally posted by: SindhuMenon



agree Jalal has Jodha now and Jodha has Jalal now. But Jodha had to go through plenty of hardships and Ruks herself has witnessed this. Those days Jodha did not have any support from her family nor from her husband.

Today when Jo was talking to Jalal about letting ruks spend time with her Kids, Jo was looking so innocent. Probably because she is not used to all these cunnigness. She always had a protected life. But that said does our life only depend on our spouse. I do not think I will sit and brood nor plot and waste my life just because I could not find someone who loves me. I will need to find ways to move on. Ruks had only 2 friends one was mamanga and other was Jalal. She did not want to depend on anyone else. But can we blame any one else for this. She made this choice. It has to come both ways. Many times Jalal has looked on Ruks for emotional support as he needed that but she failed there as her priorities were different . So Jalal moved on. She was stuck with her BEK.

I still believe she had plenty of chances to move on and if she opened herself Jalal would have supported her.



If Ruk had offered her love to Jalal when Jodha was not even in picture why would he have rejected it?! He doted on her and has pampered her silly. He would have cherished her even more.

I am sorry but I do not buy this argument that Ruk had no role models. What about HB, GB, SB they are her BLOOD relatives not MA. It was Ruk who CHOSE to follow MA cos her nature matched with that of MA's. How many times HB, GB and SB have tried to advice Ruk has she listened or understood even once?

Jodha came into Jalal's life but if HE had not accepted Jodha's views her advice HE would not have changed as well. So it is upto a person to take and evolve from around us. It is the difference between Jalal and Ruk - Jalal chose to evolve and Ruk chose to listen to MA and felt she never needed to change OTHERS should continue to do her bidding.

If Ruk has Timarud blood so has Jodha Rajvanshi blood. What way has Ruk treated Jodha with respect? When Jodha was newly wed in Agra with NO influence or support Ruk did utmost to torture insult and humiliate Jodha cos Ruk could.

Ruk loves herself most and Jalal has been source of her power, she never gave Jalal what he wanted in a wife and therefore he moved on.


ayushimehra thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
(First written by Abhay )

Completely agree...To me the GREATEST Problem is Ruqayya's intention...She is asking for KIDS NOT because of her lonliness, but her obsession with the AUHDA of MUZ...And, hence she is doing all these tricks...

Though, Jalal has given her the "Vachan" that he will fulfill ONE WISH of hers, as per that farman, but it is NOT RIGHT on Ruqs part to ask Jalal...Bcoz the Kids belong BOTH to J-J not only to Jalal..But, i think after seeing Jalal getting COUNTERED, Jodha will support him...

Though, bringing up kids by other "QUEENS" is not odd, but in this case the METHOD behind this act and the Obsession for MUZ Auhda and also her jealousy with Jodha has spoiled the party...I mean, the setting and intentions are NOT NOBLE...


Written by Me;

Ruk mind doing planning, Warris will be Jodha child, I want second child;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;is it means, Plans are Big for First Child.

i am worring this Point.

Is Ruk mind planning, after adopting, First child side By. ? Then she will become MUZ.

But today jalal was confirmed, he not wants to share child. But she will use her Wish

Jalal, was, ques ans Own, Jodha pure soul not understanding, Ruk intensions.





(Written by Abhay )

Ayushi,
I am waiting...I hope nothing will happen, like twins sharing, but that will be preceded by high voltage drama..Courtesy - Creatives of JA..Precap shows Ruqs standing in DEK...

PS -- Can that be another dream.?. Just asking..


Abhay, i think, its Not a Dream.

Abhay, actuallly we all know, Nothing will happen, But some ques Raised, I wrote Maddi thread, same pasting here.

Written by Me;


My Point is this track is for Ruk Downfall. But Ruk downfall happen or not, this time, because we know, She will be forgiven after some time.

Ques is not Jalal gave Vachan To Ruk, Ques is here Child safty. Is Ruk is responsibile person for child.;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;i think NO.

Adopting is not a Bad thing. But Way which she is choosing, Totally Wrong.

We know Child will die, But Jalal jodha Ruk not knows.;;;;;;;;;;;;;;So if a child dies for carelessness of Ruk;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;This point very troubling Me. so who is responisibile

Is Everyone have Power, to Create child, or Alive child again. if Not, you not Rights to Take Wrong decesions

Because Twins, survive, together, If we today sees, Twins, Behaviour, One is ill second is ill.

So child, given to which person;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;That responsibilty very countable.

you can't leave child,;;;;;;;;;;;;;Unresponsibile Hands.

so this delicate decesion should be taken very carefully,

Lets see. As A mother jodha should also aware this Point. Goodness or Awareness Two are different things;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;or you can't Risk, God gifted Precious creations,;;;; specially; Child in this way.

Childs are not experiment things. They need a lot of Love & Care. Even in 21 cen Child adopting is not easy thing.

So CV should be careful today., Handle this delicate matter delicately.

So As a king, Jalal should be more Aware.


Edited by ayushimehra - 11 years ago
RadhikaS0 thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago

Originally posted by: *Shruti*



We beg to differ. It may be a passing remark in context to you , but there can absolutely be NO justification comparing restricted forum atmosphere to massive death & human suffering period. It may have been a word of comparison for you, but you cannot deny it was intended to be a insult.


Shruti, Donjas,

Let's all calm down. I think there is a difference in perception here about what was intended to be said and what was actually interpreted in reading.

Shruti, you are right. "Nazi" is a strong word to be used here. But I know Donjas and I can assure you that he was just venting here and had no intention to "insult" anyone. He is also a history lover and like many members on the JA forum, he also wishes to be able to discuss the historical aspect of the episodes.

Again, this is a matter of perception. For you, the show is merely inspired by history and is a fictional show. But for many of us, it is dramatized history and reflects what we have read in Mughal chronicles. You cannot even imagine how exciting it is for us to see what we had read come alive on screen! I mean, may be Harry Potter fans will understand what they felt when they first saw Harry Potter on the big screen. 😊

We find it exceedingly difficult to control our excitement and restrict our discussions to the NR. 😕

Coming back to the point, sorry for the use of such a strong word out of context. But we would really be appreciative if the rules allowed us the flexibility to at least discuss the historical aspect of the episodes, if not complete historical discussions. 😊

Please note that I only broached this topic here because the conversation was already underway.

RadhikaS0 thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago

Al_Pal, Sindhu, Rashmi,

Great discussion! 👏

Al_Pal, thanks for liking the post! 😊

I agree with Sindhu here. Pls also see my response to Chitterati in this regard.


I do not believe Ruq actually craves for love. She only likes being close to Jalal because he is the power centre. She wants that position of power and influence because she is addicted to it. She likes to lord it over others. Why others, she even enjoyed ruling over Jalal and enjoyed advising him about personal and royal matters.

She is worried now because all this is slipping away (due to her complacence, selfishness and resistance to change).

In the words of Leo Tolstoy:


She may have any reasons to be the kind of person she is today. But I believe we are what we make of ourselves. Irrespective of our circumstances. Life is not only about Rights and Privileges. We all have certain Responsibilities that we must fulfill.

There is nothing wrong in wanting to be the centre of attention. But it cannot be demanded. It has to be earned and then retained.

Secondly, in a bid to retain power, status, and importance, Ruq is losing her moral character. With every track, she is falling further and lower into an abyss of immorality, which is both saddening and deplorable. It's been truly said that it's not power that corrupts but the fear of losing power that corrupts us.

To think that a Timurid princess who is well-educated and was once one of the chief advisers of Jalal should be capable of arm-twisting the king and her husband into snatching a new-born from its mother just so that she can be called an MUZ is horrifying.

I agree with Cleo that she may be a good mother to her adoptive child but will she let Jodha and the baby left with her to live in peace?
RadhikaS0 thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago

Originally posted by: JAfanCharu

Hi Radhika,

Thank you very much for including my thoughts along with some other brilliant posts , in your discussions . I truly appreciate your gesture .

Coming to Rukkaiyya's behavior , you have so correctly pointed out ---------- "jealousy makes a person incapable of rational thinking and behavior" . I fully agree with you .

Since childhood , Rukkaiyya has been the centre of Jalal's attention . This continued till they became adults and until Jalal married the beautiful Rajvanshi princess Jodha . Rukku's world turned upside down and she could not bear to accept Jodha's presence in his life. Her jealousy towards Jodha knows no limits. It is not only troubling Jodha , Jalal and others close to them but is also tormenting her own self . It is forcing her to behave insensitively and irrationally . It is forcing her to walk on the path of self destruction .

.


Charu,

Thanks! 😊

We all make choices and the biggest choice we make is choosing our reactions. We have to live with the consequences of our choices.

Ruq could have chosen to accept Jodha into the fold like Salima did. And Jodha, being the gracious person she is, would have gladly allowed her to be the centre of attention and power. Ruq however chose to treat Jodha like competition that has to be vanquished by any means. She has to reap what she has sown herself.





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