Take 5: Top 5 countdown for June 30th; note on pg 7 - Page 3

Created

Last reply

Replies

53

Views

5.8k

Users

23

Likes

227

Frequent Posters

mishtidoi thumbnail
14th Anniversary Thumbnail Dazzler Thumbnail
Posted: 11 years ago
#21
Good take Divya.
I do not believe Jalal took decision because of Jodha, his decision was based on eye witnesses, who saw Toddy stalking Shehnaaz, or touching improperly, as it looked . The last nail was the Hakim testimony against Tody for Shenu's burns. Jodha was a good advocate for a wrong cause.
Jalal couldn't have delayed his judgement cause such crimes are expected to be finished of early bringing justice so as the victim doesn't feel more humiliated... Even now ppl want such cases to be solved in fast track courts .
Also the maulavis did say such deeds called for death sentence, but they knew last decision was of the Emperor, knowing Toddy was a favourite ...Jalal understood this and reiterated the same during the pronouncement of the sentence to set an example
The only reprieve is the crap coming to an end...errr to make way for next crap? 😕 😉
Edited by mishtidoi - 11 years ago
luvbarun4ever thumbnail
11th Anniversary Thumbnail Explorer Thumbnail
Posted: 11 years ago
#22
I am with you Divya, somewhere i still feel Jalal and Todarmal are together in this drama.
divyavm thumbnail
19th Anniversary Thumbnail Sparkler Thumbnail Networker 2 Thumbnail
Posted: 11 years ago
#23

Originally posted by: sashashyam

My dear Divya,

I did not think even you could have done a Take 5 for tonight's episode, but here you are all pep and go! I hope you are not going to do a companion piece on the mahaepisode, finding good things to say about Jalal cadging like a mendicant for a night with Jodha, and Jodha as the counsel for the defence. Please don't, there is a good girl!😉

Aunty, I did to a take for the mahaepisode but why would I ever include the worst parts of the episode that you mention in my take 5? In any case, don't fear Aunty these take 5s are automatically going to stop when I had back to the States.

I agree with very little of this post - it is the Procrustus syndrome at work again,

Aunty, we agree many a time but then variety is the spice of life. I did not use any framework to do the take 5 ... This take 5 was truly what I felt ... Who did I make happy with this take 5? Jodha fans would be unhappy. Jalal fans also have high expectations from him and will be unhappy. But, in all honesty this is what I felt ... And I did not make it up.

and I am dismayed that you did not say a word about the criminal irresponsibility of Jalal investigating nothing on his own, and pronouncing the irreversible death sentence the very next day, and this on a man who had saved his life, and the charges against whom Jalal himself did not believe.

Is Jalal the judge or the lawyer for Todarmal? Is he expected to do everything? Todarmal has also made mistakes by not doing a good job concealing his investigations and confronting Shehnaaz ... Why does the responsibility to do everything fall on Jalal? Earlier too, Jalal felt Moti was innocent in the Adham Khan case but in front of evidences both he and Jodha were helpless.

What trail has Shehnaaz left behind for him to investigate? If he says he needs more time to investigate then won't Shehnaaz be on her best behavior?

That is why I have this teensy hope that this punishment was to have Shehnaaz do something stupid in overconfidence- that hope may be squashed today but that could be the best way to bring her out in the open

And then, he weeps, not for Todar Mal, but for himself, ad adds that he can do nothing! That was unbelievable. The pits.

He is reflecting his pain but I did not find it to be self-pity ... he is after all human

The first thing Todar Mal should do on being released is to collect his brave wife and head back to Mathura. No man with any self respect should stay on in Agra after such treatment.

Leaving is not the only way to show self-respect ... More on that later in your take

The first thing Jalal and Jodha-who-can-do-no-wrong should do is chullu bhar pani main doob marna. Not that they will, they will bounce back all too soon, especially Jodha, whose face was as hard as flint when the death sentence was pronounced.

Jalal will definitely show repentance ... Jodha is to be seen

Well, here is my take on it.

Shyamala Aunty

Jodha Akbar 274: The depths of folly

Well, my friends, your feeble hopes, and mine, have now been dashed beyond any recall.

As I had predicted (on Elas mahaepisode thread) , Jodha was not part of any plan. She was absolutely and genuinely self-righteous and chuffed up with a sense of virtue even after Todar Mal's execution was announced by Jalal. Her face was hard and devoid of even an iota of either sympathy or regret at such a harsh punishment. I felt like hitting her with a blunt instrument.

Agreed- I did say in my take that Jodha has shown she can also misjudge character completely

The amazing thing was that contrary to my expectations, Jalal too was absolutely sincere, and had no stratagem to save a man who had just a little while ago saved his life . He was willing to let him be blown up for, if one comes down to brass tacks, attempt at rape, not rape, and this when he is not convinced of his guilt. This is exactly like the Tasleem track, when he had NO plan B, only worse, for he is ready to take the life of a man who has saved his, just as Sujamal had. .

While I still have some hope this is Jalal's plan to get Shehnaaz out of guard ... It is likely he has no plan B

I would say there is one difference with the Tasleem track- there it was Jalal's plan and his action of creating the law without considering the repercussions so he was responsible for the mishaps that followed ... Here he is expected to solve the mistakes of Todarmal (yes even as a fan he has made mistakes here)

Is Jalal expected to be the superhero and cover for everyone's mistake? Why was Todarmal silent and didn't ask to question Zakira who he had confided to before the fact?

But Sujamal, who had entered the harem and killed dozens of Mughal soldiers while escaping, got off scot free because he had had the good luck to save Jalal's life, while Todar Mal's saving the same life apparently counted for nothing.

Then again, Sharifuddin and Abul Mali, who rebelled against Jalal in what was also a gunaah-e-azeem, and a far worse one, were merely imprisoned, as was Zakira for another terrible gunaah-e-azeem, of trying (as was believed) to assassinate the emperor.

Bakshi Banu and Mahaam could both have got Jodha killed for supposed infidelity, and all they got was ostracism in the first case and even less in the second. It is all cockeyed, and utter nonsense.

Sharifuddin was then released because his wife was pregnant. So it is all Todar Mal's wife's mistake, she should have had a nadaan, paak, nirdosh balak on the way!😉

Aunty, these examples feel different for me for one major reason:

In all the above cases, either he or Jodha were the primary victim and hence, they had the right to forgive the criminal ; Jalal cannot forgive Shehnaaz's supposed criminal for saving his life

The soldiers were acting as representatives of Jalal, so I do not think they can complain against Sujamal.

I had written that I would have liked her to dress Jodha down, and she did, but in far too lukewarm a manner. As Minnie noted, we expected a Draupadi style outburst. She should have given Jodha a shraap.

Not that even a shraap would have disconcerted this Jodha. Her face retained its expression of sulky righteouness and self satisfaction right thru that segment; it was a rigid, very poor performance. It needed Kanha and the bujhe diye to give her at least a jolt.

I loved TM's wife for not being OTT- she turned what Jodha was so proud about into TM's sacrifice in duty

The only one who survived in this episode was Ruqaiya, who stood up for Todar Mal citing his services to the Mughal sultanate. I felt like giving her a standing ovation.

Yes, but she could do nothing to prove it as well ... Even Jalal said the same in the mahaepisode. Jalal cannot say even with evidences I will not punish TM because of his services to the Mughal Sultanate.

Now my last lingering hope is that Todar Mal will quit Agra after Shehnaaz is exposed, and betake himself to Mathura, preferably after delivering a sharp alvida to Jodha: Nari ka hi sammaan nahin hota hai, Jodha Begum, purush ka bhi sammaan hota hai. Aapne mere atmasammaan k0 asahaniya chot pahunchayi hai, aur ab main yahan ek kshan bhi nahin rukh sakta hoon.

Yes, leaving is one way to show self-respect but another is to win amidst your own enemies and detractors. I still appreciate how after the false MC accusation Bhagavan Das had shown a lot of graciousness in understanding Jalal's situation.

The evidence was again circumstantial ... The only difference was Jalal truly believed in it then and here he is torn.

Jodha AND Jalal deserve nothing less for their ingratitude, their propensity to bend the rules to suit themselves, and their criminally faulty sense of judgment, plus his despicable catering to her whims and fancies. Yeh joru ka ghulam to aadmi hi nahin hai, Shahenshah to door ki baat hai.

It was not like there was no evidence against Todarmal. But Jalal is always at fault- whether it was accusing Jodha for Ruq's MC or in the Jodha-Sujamal track. He is expected to be the superhero who goes beyond evidence and realizes everything can be planted and how.

Today's precap was sickening in the degree of despicable weakness sand pusillanimity shown by Jalal. The Shahenshah-e-Hind sentences a loyal minister on charges that he himself does not believe, because Jodha Begum kabhi galat thi hi nahin. And when he has been specifically told by the ulema that he has the final word regarding the sentence, he still pronounces the death sentence. He never even thinks of investigating the case himself.

Did he only listen to Jodha- did he not ask HB and the ulemas for advice?

What would he investigate? He is expected to be judge, lawyer, evidence collector, everything?

He probably wanted to burnish his own credentials as an impartial judge at the expense of Todar Mal's life. Would he have sentenced Mirza Hakim to death on a similar charge? No.

I have only seen him, so far, forgive criminals when he was the primary victim / in the case of Adham Khan, Ruqaiyya chose to forgive him

Then he stands on the terrace feeling sorry for HIMSELF, and his aching dil, that one of his azeez is going to be blown to bits on the morrow, and,get this, he can do NOTHING about it. Can anything be more disgusting?


And his beloved wife,the one who upheld nari sammaan by railroading the man who saved her husband's life to his own death, stands there with nothing to say. I wished that the storm had blown both of them off the battlements. They could then have gone to heaven (presumably) and left us in peace.

I am not saying that either what Jodha or Jalal did is right; Jodha has shown misjudgment of character; Jalal has not found proof ... But how can he miraculously find proof?

Once the truth comes out, donon ko chullu bhar pani mein doob kar marna chahiye.

This is the pits. There is no hope for this serial any more. I am glad I did not watch the mahaepisode. Today's muck was as much as I could take.

As for Todar Mal's benighted idiocy in forewarning Shehnaaz, in great detail, about exactly how he planned to expose her to Jalal the next day, it was exactly like such scenes of the hero boasting to the villain in the bad Hindi films of the 1970s and 1980s. I could not believe it as I watched him blabbering out his plans for the morrow to her.

perhaps, the only thing we agree on ... I also say this is Todarmal's fatal flaw in my take

Finally, far more than all my other gripes about this track, what got my goat is the trivialisation of a very serious crime against women, rape.

What on earth did they think they were doing, having Jodha unleash all this sound and fury (I am not even going into the question of such behaviour being impossible in a 16th century context) for the benefit of a woman making a false rape charge? What sort of nari shakti promotion is this?

In my mahaepisode take, I criticize the very same thing

It is precisly the sort of thing about which the Supreme Court has warned now, though in a slightly different context.

Shyamala B.Cowsik

PS: They were copying from Mughal-e-Azam at one point (Jalal's fantasy before the dhakka scene) as against from Jodha Akbar the film all the time. Now it seems they have gone back to Mughal-e-Azam, with Todar Mal being sentenced (I was sure, wrongly as it turned out, that Jalal had cooked it up with Todar Mal) to be blown up by a cannon, just as Salim was almost blown up in K.Asif's classic.

I am sure it will be full on dramatic for sure

At this rate, how would they deal with a serial molester like Adham Khan? He can hardly be blown up repeatedly!😉

The day they have proof against him let us see

SindhuMenon thumbnail
11th Anniversary Thumbnail Rocker Thumbnail
Posted: 11 years ago
#24

Originally posted by: divyavm



Yes, both Jalal and Jodha have made a mistake ... But the question is how they both evolve from the situation

I hope to see a repentant Jalal and Jodha ... To err is human, to learn from it is the key ... Jalal for sure will ... And hope to see Jodha as well



@bold: Hey DIvya. I am 100% sure Just like Jalal , Jo will also repent...I am confident but not sure what CVs will show..:)
chembi thumbnail
11th Anniversary Thumbnail Navigator Thumbnail
Posted: 11 years ago
#25
Brilliant tke 5 divya and sme gud things are happened in this episode
-hb doesn't give any advice 2 jalal but remainds jalal tht he is a shensha
- ruks have sme brain and i luv her she always express her view openly its right or wrong but salima who always defends jo's action.
-luved tm's wife speech today and she has the guts to accuse jodha tht she may be wrong in sme times but jalal doesn't have tht guts.😆
-i little upset about jalal's behaviour in the dek he has the habit of arguing against maulies but 2day he doesn't argues or defend tm and he too believes that his jo begum is always right.
-Yes like you said me too wants jo to repent for her actions.😊

Edited by chembi - 11 years ago
luvbarun4ever thumbnail
11th Anniversary Thumbnail Explorer Thumbnail
Posted: 11 years ago
#26

Originally posted by: divyavm



Hey Divya, after reading your response here I must say you are like Jodha in a very good way, make a good argument against every point raised. I am saying this in a very good way. People who have a a great character think great..and you are one among them.
Please don't stop your Take 5's.

Khushi_love thumbnail
11th Anniversary Thumbnail Rocker Thumbnail
Posted: 11 years ago
#27

Originally posted by: sashashyam

Some hopes!

Shyamala Aunty


😆...Aunty...ummeed par Duniya kaayam hai, after all!!

Rima, u r asking for the moon, dear...😆...n I am just dreading that after this track also, Jo might get glorified for being "hunarmand" enough to get to the bottom of the Shehnaaz kand!!

& I sincerely hope, that Jalal realises after this that though he may have got his beloved Jodha Begum back from the gates of heaven, she is still an ordinary mortal, with all the human flaws that make you human...she is NOT above the rest of the world...

In fact, he himself is, because in those days, the king was regarded as God...hence, Jalal ought to repent the most after this track...he should pronounce death sentences for people only after thorough investigations, irrespective of any influences on him...

...also, there should be strict rules to maintain the decorum of the DEK...NO BEGUM of his, (or any one else for that matter) has the right to go berserk in the DEK during an investigation of a serious crime...

...cvs, get your act together...
aashyagh thumbnail
19th Anniversary Thumbnail Rocker Thumbnail
Posted: 11 years ago
#28
Divya, have not watched the episode and reading update, I have no intentions of watching.
Jalal being an Emperor instead of cribbing that he is helpless, he should have decided not to punish until he doesn't investigate, but it is too much to expect. If TM wanted to assault Shenu, he could have done it easily in his ashram, didn't Jalal feel like cross examining her? Expecting such sense from him for others is mere stupidity. If he can forgive Sujamal for entering harem and killing his soldiers just on the basis that he was Jodha's brother and saved his life, TM saved him as well and took care of his wife too, so didn't he deserve a chance to prove himself once more?
Jodha talks about women's rights, was she not in TM's ashram, where many helpless women were there, so what happened to her sensible thinking?
I have no more hopes left for this show.
Edited by aashyagh - 11 years ago
konron thumbnail
Posted: 11 years ago
#29
Oh Shyamalaji ..all this while i have been so sad that you do not post your take on the episodes.😭 Have you been writing on others thread your opinion on the episodes?😲 ( Very difficult to spend time searching all the threads to see where have you posted) Please do not do this to the poor souls like me waiting for posts everyday from You. I have been so so dissapointed about the absense of your threads...I hope you will consider the request from me to write your take on seperate thread...I have time to read very few posts and always make it a point to read posts from YOU, Divya,Mansi and lashy.


Originally posted by: sashashyam

My dear Divya,

I did not think even you could have done a Take 5 for tonight's episode, but here you are all pep and go! I hope you are not going to do a companion piece on the mahaepisode, finding good things to say about Jalal cadging like a mendicant for a night with Jodha, and Jodha as the counsel for the defence. Please don't, there is a good girl!😉

I agree with very little of this post - it is the Procrustus syndrome at work again, and I am dismayed that you did not say a word about the criminal irresponsibility of Jalal investigating nothing on his own, and pronouncing the irreversible death sentence the very next day, and this on a man who had saved his life, and the charges against whom Jalal himself did not believe.

And then, he weeps, not for Todar Mal, but for himself, ad adds that he can do nothing! That was unbelievable. The pits.

The first thing Todar Mal should do on being released is to collect his brave wife and head back to Mathura. No man with any self respect should stay on in Agra after such treatment.

The first thing Jalal and Jodha-who-can-do-no-wrong should do is chullu bhar pani main doob marna. Not that they will, they will bounce back all too soon, especially Jodha, whose face was as hard as flint when the death sentence was pronounced.

Well, here is my take on it.

Shyamala Aunty

Jodha Akbar 274: The depths of folly

Well, my friends, your feeble hopes, and mine, have now been dashed beyond any recall.

As I had predicted (on Elas mahaepisode thread) , Jodha was not part of any plan. She was absolutely and genuinely self-righteous and chuffed up with a sense of virtue even after Todar Mal's execution was announced by Jalal. Her face was hard and devoid of even an iota of either sympathy or regret at such a harsh punishment. I felt like hitting her with a blunt instrument.

The amazing thing was that contrary to my expectations, Jalal too was absolutely sincere, and had no stratagem to save a man who had just a little while ago saved his life . He was willing to let him be blown up for, if one comes down to brass tacks, attempt at rape, not rape, and this when he is not convinced of his guilt. This is exactly like the Tasleem track, when he had NO plan B, only worse, for he is ready to take the life of a man who has saved his, just as Sujamal had. .

But Sujamal, who had entered the harem and killed dozens of Mughal soldiers while escaping, got off scot free because he had had the good luck to save Jalal's life, while Todar Mal's saving the same life apparently counted for nothing.

Then again, Sharifuddin and Abul Mali, who rebelled against Jalal in what was also a gunaah-e-azeem, and a far worse one, were merely imprisoned, as was Zakira for another terrible gunaah-e-azeem, of trying (as was believed) to assassinate the emperor.

Bakshi Banu and Mahaam could both have got Jodha killed for supposed infidelity, and all they got was ostracism in the first case and even less in the second. It is all cockeyed, and utter nonsense.

Sharifuddin was then released because his wife was pregnant. So it is all Todar Mal's wife's mistake, she should have had a nadaan, paak, nirdosh balak on the way!😉

I had written that I would have liked her to dress Jodha down, and she did, but in far too lukewarm a manner. As Minnie noted, we expected a Draupadi style outburst. She should have given Jodha a shraap.

Not that even a shraap would have disconcerted this Jodha. Her face retained its expression of sulky righteouness and self satisfaction right thru that segment; it was a rigid, very poor performance. It needed Kanha and the bujhe diye to give her at least a jolt.

The only one who survived in this episode was Ruqaiya, who stood up for Todar Mal citing his services to the Mughal sultanate. I felt like giving her a standing ovation.

Now my last lingering hope is that Todar Mal will quit Agra after Shehnaaz is exposed, and betake himself to Mathura, preferably after delivering a sharp alvida to Jodha: Nari ka hi sammaan nahin hota hai, Jodha Begum, purush ka bhi sammaan hota hai. Aapne mere atmasammaan k0 asahaniya chot pahunchayi hai, aur ab main yahan ek kshan bhi nahin rukh sakta hoon.

Jodha AND Jalal deserve nothing less for their ingratitude, their propensity to bend the rules to suit themselves, and their criminally faulty sense of judgment, plus his despicable catering to her whims and fancies. Yeh joru ka ghulam to aadmi hi nahin hai, Shahenshah to door ki baat hai.

Today's precap was sickening in the degree of despicable weakness sand pusillanimity shown by Jalal. The Shahenshah-e-Hind sentences a loyal minister on charges that he himself does not believe, because Jodha Begum kabhi galat thi hi nahin. And when he has been specifically told by the ulema that he has the final word regarding the sentence, he still pronounces the death sentence. He never even thinks of investigating the case himself.

He probably wanted to burnish his own credentials as an impartial judge at the expense of Todar Mal's life. Would he have sentenced Mirza Hakim to death on a similar charge? No.

Then he stands on the terrace feeling sorry for HIMSELF, and his aching dil, that one of his azeez is going to be blown to bits on the morrow, and,get this, he can do NOTHING about it. Can anything be more disgusting?

And his beloved wife,the one who upheld nari sammaan by railroading the man who saved her husband's life to his own death, stands there with nothing to say. I wished that the storm had blown both of them off the battlements. They could then have gone to heaven (presumably) and left us in peace.

Once the truth comes out, donon ko chullu bhar pani mein doob kar marna chahiye.

This is the pits. There is no hope for this serial any more. I am glad I did not watch the mahaepisode. Today's muck was as much as I could take.

As for Todar Mal's benighted idiocy in forewarning Shehnaaz, in great detail, about exactly how he planned to expose her to Jalal the next day, it was exactly like such scenes of the hero boasting to the villain in the bad Hindi films of the 1970s and 1980s. I could not believe it as I watched him blabbering out his plans for the morrow to her.

Finally, far more than all my other gripes about this track, what got my goat is the trivialisation of a very serious crime against women, rape.

What on earth did they think they were doing, having Jodha unleash all this sound and fury (I am not even going into the question of such behaviour being impossible in a 16th century context) for the benefit of a woman making a false rape charge? What sort of nari shakti promotion is this?

It is precisly the sort of thing about which the Supreme Court has warned now, though in a slightly different context.

Shyamala B.Cowsik

PS: They were copying from Mughal-e-Azam at one point (Jalal's fantasy before the dhakka scene) as against from Jodha Akbar the film all the time. Now it seems they have gone back to Mughal-e-Azam, with Todar Mal being sentenced (I was sure, wrongly as it turned out, that Jalal had cooked it up with Todar Mal) to be blown up by a cannon, just as Salim was almost blown up in K.Asif's classic.

At this rate, how would they deal with a serial molester like Adham Khan? He can hardly be blown up repeatedly!😉

munni_rajatfan thumbnail
17th Anniversary Thumbnail Stunner Thumbnail + 4
Posted: 11 years ago
#30
@divya, ur right. But maybe since its TM evryone is getting emotional. As u said jalal is expected to be perfect so evrytime he becomes the punching bag. Yes ur right jalal cant consider TM's case or leave him coz he had done so much for him bcoz a shahenshah has to take harsh decisions. He decided on the basis of cirmcumstantial evidence which he had done before as well. By taking time I meant delaying the procedure. Maybe by ruku or salima's help he could have tried to observe shehnaaz secretly. If u remember in ruku's MC track where jodha was accused then also HB took 10 days time to investigate. Sumhow jalal should have managed sum time thts my only point. But yes jalal cant be lenient with TM bcoz in sujamal or BB he nd jodha were the victims but here a 3rd person is involved. Wht if sumone questions him why did he left a criminal? But having said tht he didn't gave a death sentence to adham in tasneem case, tht time also jodha was the eye witness.

Related Topics

Top

Stay Connected with IndiaForums!

Be the first to know about the latest news, updates, and exclusive content.

Add to Home Screen!

Install this web app on your iPhone for the best experience. It's easy, just tap and then "Add to Home Screen".