Nausena-Pt5-JA not Fiction-AKBAR-a TITLE?.P27+ MAHACHUCHAK BEGUM - P30 - Page 5

Originally posted by: vijisridhar

Wow really beautiful paintings with such exquisite details. Old is always gold... Really some great work of artistes in those times. Very interesting and insightful. Thanks Abhay. BT the time this show is over, we all in the forum would have become Mughal experts.

Am seeing women in the paintings, but, am also confusing that some could be eunuchs too who dressed like women.

But, I know for sure that Akbar gave lots of importance to the views of the women in his kingdom. Probably he found them to be more loyal than men folks ... Hehehe..!

I remember reading that when there are proceedings in DEK or DEA, his harem women were seated in the closed enclosure above (kind of first floor balcony). But, this enclosure is made of this ivory or marble which are thin like curtains and has designer holes in them, so women could see the proceedings from there, but the men courtiers below cannot see them.

When these ladies wanted to say something, they called up from there and Akbar would strain his ears to listen to them. Also, if he wants opinions, he would raise his head, lean a bit for listening purpose and ask his khas begums for their opinions in the matter.

Have also read that this was a point for some dissident courtiers who didn't like women to be given equal rights or sometimes a funny topic to discuss in the back of Akbar about him being a ladies man.

Would like to read others opinions here.

Viji

Hi Viji
Exactly, same points i too have read, and your description regarding involvement of women in court is perfect. I agree with these points. But, these paintings by no means imply eunuchs, and there are certain other paintings which depict women in similar manner. Afterall, this just demonstrates the "presence" of women while sharing such spoils.😊 (concluded so after reading a lot).

For your point @blue, have a picture, which talks of the enclosure which you have mentioned. Also, i went through certain papers, which mentioned that, the architechture of these enclosures for women was made in such a manner, that specific amount of light passed through them,🤓 and these womenfolk could see the proceedings outside, but the outsiders could not see in. Also, the location was in such a manner that the Emperor could see them.😆

The texts talk of various Geometrical angles at which these were constructed, so as to protect them from certain portion of the court, not the Emperor particularly. These type of constructions were mostly in Diwan-e-Aam.😊 Also, this was shown in the show, just after Jo-Ja's marriage, when Jalal orders to punish a man and his wife, when they came in DeA, to ask justice. And, later Jalal forgives them, after their young child makes Jalal burst in tears almost. Remember, in that scene, women-folk, were standing in a "balcony", and had access to happenings downside not the other way round.😊

Following is a type of structure, which you/i are talking about. (Though, this picture is not of DeK or DeA). Just for supporting the point.

Originally posted by: ayushimehra

AGAIN APPRICIATE YOU, PROVIDING US GREAT INFORMATION

IN THESE DAYS WE ALL ARE BECOMING HISTORY 'S GOOD STUDENTS😆 😆

DOES THE PRESENCE OF LADIES IN THE PORTRAITS;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

YES, IN AKBAR'S ERA, WOMENS CONDITIONS WERE BETTER. WOMEN PARTICIPATE IN DEK,SHE CAN SPEAK IN FRONT OF KING, WOMENS WERE PROVIDED HIGHER POISTIONS

EX. M U J M U M. THEY WERE QUALIFIED. SALIMA BEGUM. RUK. HAMIDA. GULBADAN. ETC

THEY WERE PERFECT, IN (TEER, ANDAZI, CHESS, HUNTING.NURJHANHA WAS PERFECT IN (TEER-ANADJI) BUT ONE TIME PUNSHIED BY JAHANGIR) SALIMA WAS GOOD POETESS(IT MEANS FREEDOM OF WRITING. GULBADAN IS ALSO EX)

I ALSO READ IN HISTORY (MUGHAL LADIES KNOWS HOW TO MAKE PREFUMES) IT SHOWS THEY CAN CHOOSE PROFESSION ACC. TO HER TASTE LADIES WERE HAKKIMS.JODHA PRACTISEES IN SWORD, FIGHTING WHEN AKBAR WAS NOT AT FATHPUR SIKKRI JODHA HANDLED SOME WARS,(IT SHOWS POWER OF WOMEN &FAITH OF KING TO QUEENS)

BUT ONE THING HOW AKBAR WAS BROAD. HE DID SO MUCH BROAD DECESIONS IN 16 CEN

INTER CAST MARRIAGE) FREEDOM TO JODHA HER RELEGION. IT SHOWS HIS BRAVERY, HIS VISION& FEELINGS ABOUT WO-MEN. RUK WAS CHIEF- CONSULTANT. JODHA WAS SHIP INCHARGE. INCOME OF WHICH GET FROM TRADE ALSO GIVEN TO QUEENS. (IT SHOWS VAST THINKING.TRUST. HONESTY, CAPBILITY OF WOMEN, MUMTAJ WAS GOOD IN PAINTING

JODHA SINGING WAS FAMOUS IN AGRA&FAITHPUR SIKIRI. JODHA SINGS SOMETIME WITH TANSEN (SHOWS HIGH LEVEL THINKING)

DIFFERENT TYPE OF REALGION LADIES WERE LIVING TOGETHER SHOWS ONENESS THAT TIME. JODHA WANTS TO LEARN URDU. SHOWS FREEDOM OF LEARNING. HOLI DIWALI PAINTING JODHA'S TEMPLE IN FATHPUR SIKIRI WALLS DESCRIBED HINDU CULTURE SHOWS AKBAR GREATNESS& WOMEN POSITION IN THAT ERA

ALSO ABOUT THE EXPERTISE OF THE PAINTERS OF THOSE TIMES;

YES, PAINTERS OF THOSE TIMES PROVIDE US SO BEAUTIFUL PAINTINGS,PAINTERS ALSO DID GREAT JOB WHEN FORTS WERE CONSTRUCTING. THERE WALLS, THERE DESIGIONS.THERE ARCHITECTURE.COLOURS,TECHNIQUES.ACC TO PERSONALITY SHOWING PAINTINGS, IN AGRA FORT EVERY MARBLE SPEAKS EVERY WALL SPEAKS BECAUSE PAINTERS HAVE TO FREEDOM DESCRIBE THEMSELVES. IF WE SEE PAINTING AKBAR FACE. SO CONIFIDENT. BUT WHEN HE GOES TO AJMAR SHARRIF HIS FACE IS SHOWING HUMBLENESS THAT SHOWS GREATNESS OF PAINTERS, ARROWS .BOATSCENE EVERYPAINTING SPEAKS.(IN MUGHUAL TIME ART WAS EXTREEM LEVEL

IN AGRA FORT I REMEMBER FOUNTAINS, ARE MUSICAL GARDENS WERE BEAUTIFUL. IT SHOWS HOW TO LIVE . SOME RELAX IS NECESSARY. AKBAR DARBAR HAS NINE RATANS

THEY ALL ARE DIFFERENT;

BIRBAL; INTELLIGENT GOOD SPEAKER ETC ETC

EVERY RATAN HAS ITS OWN QUALITY . IT SHOWS AGAIN GREATNESS OF MUGHAL EMPIRE

I

WOULD ALSO LIKE TO HEAR;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

YES A LOT OF DESTRUCTION LOSSES OF HISTORICAL TREASURES AT THE HANDS OF VARIOUS AGENCIES. WE ARE NOT PTOTECTING OUR HISTORICAL BUILDINGS.

I VISTED AGRA FORT FIRST TIME I SAW A SMALL MIRROR IN AGRA FORT WHICH WE SEE TAJ MAHAL THROUGH THAT MIRROR(SHAHJHAN SEES TAJ MAHAL THAT MIRROR WHEN HE WAS ARRESTED) BUT SECOND TIME WHEN I VISTED THAT MIRROR HAS BEEN BROKEN(SO SAD) KOHINOOR HEERA OF MUGHUALS WHICH WAS DECOTRACTED IN KINGS (TAKHAT) NOT AVAILABLE NOW MAYBEE STOLEN. THIS IS OUR SAFTY. I ALSO MENTION BEFORE EVERY PILLER HAS DIFFERENT MEANING IN FORTS.EVERY WALL CREATES DIFFERENT SOUNDS.

IF WE SEE STARTING OF THAT PLACES HOW MUCH THEY SECURE. THEIR WORK. IF WE SEE CHAMBERS OF KINGS &QUEENS THEY ARE MANUFACTURED ACC TO WEATHER. SMALL WALLS WHICH HAVE GAP WATER WAS FILLED IN SUMMER THEY WORK AS IN DAYS WORK COLLER OR AC.SO SCIENCE &TECHNIQUES WERE GOOD THAT TIME. BUT WE ARE NOT ABLE TO PROTECT THEM.

ALSO REGARDING THE FIGHT ON BOATS;

AKBAR EMPIRE WAS SO VAST THEY TRADE OUTSIDE THE COUNTRY.SO THEY USE SHIPS OR BOATS. MUJ WAS THE INCHARGE OF SHIPS. INCOME ALSO USED BY MUJ. I THINK MAYBEE ONE SHIP AFTER AKBAR DEATH WAS SEEGED WHICH WAS SOUGHT OUT BY HER SON JAHANGIR(SALIM)

IN I6 CEN AKBAR HAS UNITED THE WHOLE KINGDOM &BECOME THE AKBAR THE GREAT FOR MANY REASONS.AFTER AKBAR;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

WHEN RAHIM WAS 15 YEARS OLD AKBAR LISTENS FROM HIM POEMS. AKBAR WAS FOND OF EVERY THING.(AKBAR HAS MANY QUALTIES, BUT IN SERIAL WHEN WE WILL SEE????????

JODHA HAS ALSO SO MUCH QUALTIES.

😆(RABB NEE BANA DEE JODI)😊 😊

MUGHAL ALSO GIVE US ; TAJ MAHAL. LOT OF FORTS.

SHALIMAR BAGH. NISSHANT BAGH. RED FORT.;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

AMER TO AGRA FORT WHICH SURRUNG GOES SHOWS HOW AKBAR MIND WAS DEVELOPED THAT TIME(TRUST WITH AMER PEOPLE ALSO SHOWS)

Originally posted by: LizBennett

Dear Abhay and Kamal,

The stuff you guys dig up is amazing..and hats off in absolute sincerity for your efforts...👏

These portraits are in appearance stylized and idealized images...but do in fact, convey events of historical importance. I offer the comparison only to emphasize that at this time,Renaissance Europe was moving towards humanism and more realistic depictions of people and events...real or religious/ historical/mythological...

Having said that..these images from the Ain-E-Akbari are beautifully illustrated..and give us the only window we have to an image of that era...and also to the great man himself...

When I had gone to see the plant and bird miniatures from the time of Jahangir at the MET museum..there was a placard that said that some artists used brushes with a single brush hair...to illustrate the bird plumage...and their attention to detail is mind blowing and humbling...the effect of Europe or to be more precise...the European school could be seen in those images..

Emperors and other noble patrons were portrayed in a stylized manner, not that dissimilar to ancient Egypt ...side profiles, a certain pose..few realistic details...but some always do creep through... ,esp in later days of Akbar and during Jahangir's reign...but, during the time of Shah Jahan..wherein the decline of the Empire...was in effect eating away at the roots of the empire, painting codes became more rigid..

The miniatures I saw were by Basawan,and his proteges , Govardhan and another person..I forget...

But what I remember is simple awe and joy...that. Such works were left for us to view and marvel at...

Jahangir, for all of his opium addiction..was a quasi Renaissance man..a scientist, an art patron..and a nature lover...

I always think of Akbar as India's Lorenzo..our own Il Magnifico...with a bit of a restless Leonardo thrown in..😊

Welcome.😊
You have written a lot about the paintings.👏

Would like to add some bits here, especially regarding effect of European Painting on Mughals (which i know, more effects may be present.).
The European painting,introduced by Portuguese priests in the court, main effect they had on paintings were --> "the principles of fore-shortening, whereby near and distinct people could be placed in perspective".

Regarding, the "another painter", probably it's Mukund, Dasawant, Mishkina, Tulsi, or Nanha. 😊

Hello Abhay!😃. Great post you have there again!

buddy first appreciating u for ur effort n research👏👏thanku for the excellent and valuable info😊
asaf khan was wazir(is it after atgah khan death by any chance or before AK??)kudos to the artists at that time for making clear and visible paintings👏it seems like Akbar is fond of boatride whether its battle or date😆The women in the portrait do suggest their position in mughal era..i read that akbar do take suggestions in DEK from them...those two women seems lik ruks and MUZ😆

Awesome... that pic of the enclosure screen for Harem women is superb. It shows, how lots of detailing went in protecting women in those days. Not to forget ofcourse, there were atrocities against women in those days too like it still continues now.

Thanks for reinforcing my points, feel good about being validated.


Now am intrigued with this statement above.. will await to unravel in the show.

Viji

I can not see the women. In which picture and where are they? 😭

Originally posted by: 134566

I can not see the women. In which picture and where are they? 😭

Originally posted by: tamy267

Before I read your question, I was grinning seeing the women folk in the paintings. You are right! This shows the power ladies held in Akbar's era. I am amazed kaise uss zamane mein choti choti details bhi painters paintings mein capture karne ki koshish karte the. 😃
i must praise Akbar also. did Aurangzeb overlook these? Lol...Hmm seems like Akbar was fond of boat ride be it battle or dating 😉
Btw Asaf Khan was wazir since which year? Why hasn't he appeared in the show yet? 😕
I'll add more later..u know I'm traveling 😔

Yes, it can be inferred so, regarding the stand of women in court. We have many examples as well. Posted this to know views from you all.😊 Regarding paintings, i at times feel, how they painted so finely.

@red. Same here. And, certain evidences , i have given in thread itself. Many are mentioned in Ain-e-Akbari. Like the games of -> 'Aankh Micholi' , 'Ishq-Baazi', game of 'kabootars', 'Chaupar' , 'Pachisi' , etc.😉 He was a man of multiple tastes.

Regarding Asaf Khan, he was in Akbar's service from very beginning. He fought some battles for Akbar. Important one being, the battle in 1564, against the kingdom of Gondwana named Chauragarh(many names are prevalent). Abul Fazl notes, he got so much plunder in gold, jewels, silver, etc. from this war, that counting even a fraction of this is impossible, but sent only 200 elephants to the court.😕 Asaf Khan was Mughal governor of Allahabad.

Perhaps, they will introduce him when this war comes. Though, Akbar did NOT fight personally in this war. So, they may skip also.!...Also, Asaf Khan was with Man Singh, in the Battle of Haldighati in 1576, against Maharana Pratap.

Enjoy your trip..!..😊

After reading all this, I'm back to feeling like the portrayal of Akbar onscreen is quite shabby...