JA Jan 23rd - Jodha it is payback time!

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sashashyam

@sashashyam

Sparkler

+ 3

Posted: 11 years ago

#51

An excellent, very fair and balanced assessment of things as they stand now, my dear Meghana.

I am particularly glad that you have very clearly brought out the era factor, and the way in which Jodha's erstwhile behaviour was totally unrealistic for the era in which she lived. No husband even today would put up with one tenth of the things she has done, and the real life Jodha would have been sent back ot Amer pronto if she had attempted even one hundredth of what this Jodha has got away with.

You are spot on when you refer to 'payback time'. In fact, today, Jodha's chickens all came home to roost. Jalal had by now reached the end of his tether. All that had been building up within him since Shivani's elopement had to come out some time, and it all came out in public today.

But even so, if Jodha had not made that interjection about his being her pati, and that she would not allow his life to be endangered, it would never have happened. Till a week ago, she was labelling him the SKLL (stree ke liye lalasa) specialist, and now that she has decided to save his life (which he does not know is in danger), she suddenly parades her pativrata dharma and expects the man she accused of SKLL to believe her. Why should he, when The Shove and The Letter have still not been explained. and when the one possible test of the truth of her accusations, the milk test, which is quite plausible, falls flat?

The other thing is that almost everyone here seems to be assuming that what Ruqaiya and Jalal said HAD to refer only to the absence of marital relations betwen Jalal and Jodha. That has in any case been public knowledge since the Bakshi Banu affair, and is thus no great shakes.

In fact, Jodha can be blamed for wifely derelictions over a wide range, from repeated, overt and public rudeness to taking her husband completely for granted while barging ahead with the Shivani-Mirza marriage. It is not just Jodha who is strangely obsessed with the physical side of marriage. The whole forum, bar me, seems to be the same!😉

The forum has no need to fret too much about Jodha's humiliation. It will be short enough; next week Jalal, after dissolving into a puddle of remorse and gratitude, will be building a mandir for Jodha Devi, and Hamida will be carting the bricks for it, I expect.

Where, oh where, is the intelligent, vibrant love story I had (foolishly, I agree) hoped for?

Shyamala

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Mages

@Mages

Elite

+ 7

Posted: 11 years ago

#52

awesome analysis...

it looks like you brought out the positive points from a negative episode...respect...but i have a different POV

how much insults do we need to witness in DEK for jodha...its enough...she is a princess...she is a queen...its not right to insult jodha in DEK...it applies to jallu...ruku...MA... i am tired of this insults and humiliation on jodha...

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petrichorr

@petrichorr

Rocker

Posted: 11 years ago

#53

Originally posted by: ngayou
Hi Meghna. Well today am not in agreement with the points u ve set out however correct they maybe from a tit for tat POV. Its not that any of ur points r wrong, but its just I didn't enjoy what went on in today s epi at all . Agreed that Jodha has multiple times insulted Jalal , that too when he was being good to her . She s also insulted him publicly , right I agree. But...but just as I hated her doing that & was quite vociferous too about it in the forum ( in fact that was the reason I became active here itself 😛 ), now I hate what happened to Jodha too in DEK. It just left a very bad taste in my mouth , the way all were insulting Jodha about matters private. Jo might have brought it on herself with her past behaviour, but a MA or a Ruq dont have the rights to pull her up for it 😕 . And Jalal , he only confided this state of affairs to Ruq, so...😕 & I didn't like that he kept quiet over all this insulting & to top it he also vented out at Jo .I know Jalal is hurt & insulted & all that bla , but still I wasn't in favor of Jo s public humiliation 😭 . Two wrongs never make a right.

Of course, all this in the end might make Jo realise the value of Jalal s support & ultimately the realisation of their feelings for each other, but am sure not liking the way it s being shown 😕 .

Regarding that Benu drama & the impending nikah 🤢 , there are so many loopholes in that argument which I sure dont even want to get started on. Only small consolation was Jalal wasnt in favor of the nikah too 😛 .

MA 😡 ...how come her spies r so much efficient than Jalal s & why do Jalal s brains go on vacation periodically that he cant figure out something as basic as a 2+2=4 I dunno 😕 . And Ruq is so blinded by the green monster that she isnt making sense either .

Precap: Salima/Jo team to the rescue of their idiot Shahenshah . Hopefully they ll do it in time to stop the nikah ( but why then have I seen Benu s pics in 3 different begum costumes 😲 )

Well said.

This is a husband and wife relationship. No Tom and Jerry game.

All hopes on Saleema(Only sane soul in Agra ) to use her calm and collected mind.

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Sandhya.A

@Sandhya.A

Sparkler

Posted: 11 years ago

#54

Meghna

Loved your take and agree with it in toto.

We can't view things as a 21st century feminist.

Jalalluddin Muhammad was a king of kings who has been very compromising and yielding so far .

All the girls who proclaim vehemently that physical relationship is not everything in marriage, do point out to one marriage that has flourished without it and try keeping your husbands at an arms lenghth for months on citing 'man se poori tarah se pati nahin maana hai' as the reason. All this can happen only in serials.

After all earlier insults the recent shove and esp the shivaani fiasco jalal's frustration is expected. He has reached the limit. I still wish he had not been public, but as you say discussing sleeping arrangements with a daasi was also public and so were the taunts in the first meena bazaar. Like the president or not the presidency should be respected.

And for all those who scream equality the 21 gun shots and guard of honour are only for the president not the first lady. His position certainly commands more standing. We are a minority here meghna. So it was doubly nice reading you.

Edited by Sandhya.A - 11 years ago

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Elizabeth FitzWilliam Darcy

@LizBennett

Explorer

Posted: 11 years ago

#55

Originally posted by: prejudiced
I totally agree how Jalaal feels and a man in the 16th century would've felt being rejected by his wife in the era of polygamy...

But But does it justify Jalaal's act of shouting wide open in DEK in front of everyone as to how she never satisfied ANY duty of a wife?????
Is physical relationship the only aspect of married life?
So entire Agra needed to know this?
Jalaal disappointed me big time today. I was open mouthed meghna.

Its Jo -Ja that brought me here.
But am hating how the creative have managed to massacre both characters at different points in time.

Hear!Hear!

U go girl! Summed up nicely...

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Sandhya.A

@Sandhya.A

Sparkler

Posted: 11 years ago

#56

Originally posted by: ngayou
Hi Meghna. Well today am not in agreement with the points u ve set out however correct they maybe from a tit for tat POV. Its not that any of ur points r wrong, but its just I didn't enjoy what went on in today s epi at all . Agreed that Jodha has multiple times insulted Jalal , that too when he was being good to her . She s also insulted him publicly , right I agree. But...but just as I hated her doing that & was quite vociferous too about it in the forum ( in fact that was the reason I became active here itself 😛 ), now I hate what happened to Jodha too in DEK. It just left a very bad taste in my mouth , the way all were insulting Jodha about matters private. Jo might have brought it on herself with her past behaviour, but a MA or a Ruq dont have the rights to pull her up for it 😕 . And Jalal , he only confided this state of affairs to Ruq, so...😕 & I didn't like that he kept quiet over all this insulting & to top it he also vented out at Jo .I know Jalal is hurt & insulted & all that bla , but still I wasn't in favor of Jo s public humiliation 😭 . Two wrongs never make a right.

Of course, all this in the end might make Jo realise the value of Jalal s support & ultimately the realisation of their feelings for each other, but am sure not liking the way it s being shown 😕 .

Regarding that Benu drama & the impending nikah 🤢 , there are so many loopholes in that argument which I sure dont even want to get started on. Only small consolation was Jalal wasnt in favor of the nikah too 😛 .

MA 😡 ...how come her spies r so much efficient than Jalal s & why do Jalal s brains go on vacation periodically that he cant figure out something as basic as a 2+2=4 I dunno 😕 . And Ruq is so blinded by the green monster that she isnt making sense either .

Precap: Salima/Jo team to the rescue of their idiot Shahenshah . Hopefully they ll do it in time to stop the nikah ( but why then have I seen Benu s pics in 3 different begum costumes 😲 )

Gayatri,

Just want to clarify on 2 points

MA is the wazir-e-aaliya so she will be in charge of various departments. So probably the spies come directly under her. Jalal's men and her men are't different. She was probably ordering the royal spies. Jalal is yet to doubt her as she has covered her tracks well.

Secondly ruqaiya doesn't know that ben is vk. Jo happened to see ben on shivraatri night by chance. Ruq didn't. Had she known she would have pelted her with boulders. Ruqs is jealous of jo but she will never endanger jalal's life. she doesn't know that ben is vk and thinks jo has made a mistake .

Jalal too is not happy with the nikaah. He tells jo that I am paying for your follies.

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ngayou

@ngayou

Dazzler

Posted: 11 years ago

#57

Originally posted by: Sandhya.A

Gayatri,
Just want to clarify on 2 points

MA is the wazir-e-aaliya so she will be in charge of various departments. So probably the spies come directly under her. Jalal's men and her men are't different. She was probably ordering the royal spies. Jalal is yet to doubt her as she has covered her tracks well.

Secondly ruqaiya doesn't know that ben is vk. Jo happened to see ben on shivraatri night by chance. Ruq didn't. Had she known she would have pelted her with boulders. Ruqs is jealous of jo but she will never endanger jalal's life. she doesn't know that ben is vk and thinks jo has made a mistake .

Jalal too is not happy with the nikaah. He tells jo that I am paying for your follies.

Agree Sandhya , on the point u made abt Ruq, of course Ruqs has always cared for Jalal s well being. In fact am one of Ruq s supporters 😉 , but today I meant in the context of a Shahenshah s audha/ rutba bla bla in marrying a lowly kaneez. Normally Ruq wouldnt have rooted for this although she s very okay with Jalal spending his nights with any woman, but she d have drawn the line on marriage haina, that s what I meant by saying jealousy blinded her to this point.

About MA , what to say, maybe u r right, but Jalal did capture Abul Mali with the help of his spies sent by Atga Khan na & also he did say he s keeping all those baandhis under surveillance , matlab he does have his coterie of spies, that s the thought I gathered after hearing that. Maybe am wrong, dunno.

And Jalal marrying Ben to repay for Jo s mistakes, did kaneezes/ nautch gals get respectably married in those days? I d really like to know if my this question is wrong. And if am right, why does Jalal have to agree to the marriage

Edited by ngayou - 11 years ago

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meghanajain

@meghanajain

Voyager

Posted: 11 years ago

#58

Originally posted by: RadhikaS0
Yes, both Jodha and Jalal made mistakes. It's easy to say Jalal did a lot for Jodha. But it's also true that Jodha went through a lot of emotional upheaval after her marriage. True her own MIL may have supported her but HB is not a very important person. MA and Ruqu made life very difficult for her and so did many others one after the other.
Initially, while Jalal may have kept his promises, he was quite intent to "control" her. Many times, he also was quite rude to her and often blamed her for every complaint MA brought to him. He may have given her the option to go back to Amer but later he forced it on her when MA complained about the Holi incident. He saved her from the suicide bid because he felt guilty for having pushed her to it and also it would have been humiliating for him if she had died.
In the tiger track, Jodha made a mistake which was serious but she didn't do it deliberately. She probably never imagined the situation could turn so serious. To her credit, she did bring him to the palace and then administered aushadhi also.

He arranged Sukanya's marriage because he had killed her fiance in war and had to make up for it. When Jodha told him about the conspirators Shareefuddin and Adham, he didn't believe her. If he had trusted her then, the false pregnancy and Tasneem cases wouldn't have happened.

Everyone talks of unconditional support of Jalal. But even in false pregnancy case, he did doubt Jodha. Only when he found proof of her innocence did he support her.

When a newly married woman, esp one who has married against her will, is subjected to such an emotional roller coaster ride, she will take time to accept her husband. You can't expect her to start loving her husband over one compliment when the next minute, someone may frame her and her husband starts shouting at her again.

As for saying thanks, Jalal also didn't say thanks to her for saving his life. Yes there were times he appreciated her publicly. But Jodha never humiliated him in public. Even when she was rude, she was so in private.

There was nothing wrong in confiding in a maid in those days. The princess' or queen's maids knew everything. Even Ruqu and MA tell their maids a great deal. Jalal however didn't confide in a servant who would have kept his mouth shut. He confided to MA and Ruqu, which he shouldn't have done. And look at Ruqu. She taunts him at every chance and he doesn't say anything to her. If he has any sense, he will never confide anything in her ever again.

Jalal and Jodha are young and making mistakes and learning slowly. In this regard, we should not expect Jalal to behave like the great Akbar right from the beginning. He evolved over a long period of time.

Jodha is just beginning to know him and so her mistakes can be understood. She was a pampered princess and it's understandable if she doesn't become the ideal wife right from day one. She was a free spirit and a tomboy and so she may have held against the emperor without fear. And he may have been so surprised to see someone who could stand upto him that he may have given her the freedom to get away with a lot.

Inspite of all this, they would have come together if not for MA and Ruqu. Ruqu esp should have been Jalal's greatest supporter as she has grown up with him and knows him so well. But she has never reached out to him as a wife or friend. Not after the MC episode or the BB betrayal. Even Jodha inspite of her ghrina reached out to Jalal after BB's betrayal but never Ruqu. I have never seen her go to him. Even on his bday, Jalal went to Ruqu, she didn't go to him. She is only bothered about her position and power but not about Jalal. Still she has so many fans, it's shocking. Someone was saying Jalal doesn't recognise her "deep love". She keeps asking Jalal if he has started getting a "dil" as if it's a disease. Only Jodha has so far told Jalal that he has a dil. (Mirza has only hinted about it.)

Jalal has given unconditional support to everyone close to him, not just Jodha. But who among them has returned it to him? So even Ruqu can't claim to be a good wife. She doesn't mind Jalal being with any woman as long as that woman poses no threat to her position. Is this love? She doesn't even have gratitude. She is forgetting that Jodha had saved her marriage. When Ben track started, people said Ruqu will return the favour and save Jodha's marriage. But she's doing the contrary.

Actually, Jalal was beginning to forget the humiliation of the shove and the Shivani elopement. His present anger is not stemming from what Jodha did in the past. It's just that he's unable to get over his attraction for Jodha and he feels he will never get her really. It's this frustration that's making him angry. Yes, it will do Jodha also good to know how hard life can be if Jalal doesn't support her. Her worst mistake was not doing enough to clear the love letter MU with him or at least conveying how much he meant to her as a friend.

Moti is a balanced person and it's very important for Jodha that Moti doesn't say yes to everything she says. She always tries to explain the other person's viewpoint to Jodha and suggest that Jodha could be wrong. Since Jodha never introspects, at least someone should bring other points of view to her and be able to tell her she can be wrong sometimes.

Hamida Banu doesn't even support Jalal much, how can anyone expect her to support Jodha? She is affectionate to people in a way but she never really offers an emotional anchor.

At the end of the day, both Jodha and Jalal have to come out of the grip of circumstances and people around them and talk to each other honestly about what they feel and want. Of course this will never happen in the serial.

Radhika,
I enjoyed reading your detailed comment and explanation of Where Jodha is coming from. I infact at written in the past why it took Jodha time to be nice to Jalal. Inspite of everything that went on between them I have never seen Jalal humiliate her repeatedly or pass bitter comments. That was Jodha's trademark exclusively for Jalal in the past.
My view basically is talking about why Jalal is not by her anymore. How this is causing big problems for Jodha. Yes, I did not like the DEK chat today, but it was the truth. Unlike Jodha who called Jalal lustful and characterless many times which were false statements.
Hope the love letter issue comes up again as it wont be possible for Jalal to move forward in this relationship. That was the final blow Jalal could take, he had hope till then. When situation was hopeless, he now remembers how it was always one sided.

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meghanajain

@meghanajain

Voyager

Posted: 11 years ago

#59

Originally posted by: ngayou
Hi Meghna. Well today am not in agreement with the points u ve set out however correct they maybe from a tit for tat POV. Its not that any of ur points r wrong, but its just I didn't enjoy what went on in today s epi at all . Agreed that Jodha has multiple times insulted Jalal , that too when he was being good to her . She s also insulted him publicly , right I agree. But...but just as I hated her doing that & was quite vociferous too about it in the forum ( in fact that was the reason I became active here itself 😛 ), now I hate what happened to Jodha too in DEK. It just left a very bad taste in my mouth , the way all were insulting Jodha about matters private. Jo might have brought it on herself with her past behaviour, but a MA or a Ruq dont have the rights to pull her up for it 😕 . And Jalal , he only confided this state of affairs to Ruq, so...😕 & I didn't like that he kept quiet over all this insulting & to top it he also vented out at Jo .I know Jalal is hurt & insulted & all that bla , but still I wasn't in favor of Jo s public humiliation 😭 . Two wrongs never make a right.

Of course, all this in the end might make Jo realise the value of Jalal s support & ultimately the realisation of their feelings for each other, but am sure not liking the way it s being shown 😕 .

Regarding that Benu drama & the impending nikah 🤢 , there are so many loopholes in that argument which I sure dont even want to get started on. Only small consolation was Jalal wasnt in favor of the nikah too 😛 .

MA 😡 ...how come her spies r so much efficient than Jalal s & why do Jalal s brains go on vacation periodically that he cant figure out something as basic as a 2+2=4 I dunno 😕 . And Ruq is so blinded by the green monster that she isnt making sense either .

Precap: Salima/Jo team to the rescue of their idiot Shahenshah . Hopefully they ll do it in time to stop the nikah ( but why then have I seen Benu s pics in 3 different begum costumes 😲 )

Gayatri,
It was not a tit for tat justification at all. I just wanted to point out why Jodha is alone today. Jalal is unable to support or defend Jodha anymore because she pushed him away to that extent. Agreed, that public humiliation should not have happened. But, it was not a false allegation and it was started by Jodha claiming pati vrata, to which Ruqu responded and Jalal just supported.
BTW, Jalal did not make that comment to get back to her. Jodha made a proud statement of being a wife and thats what hit her back. Read Shymala's comment on my view, she is got it right.

I am not happy with the episodes either. God only knows when I will get over the addiction. But, just want to present a different perspective as everyone is pro Jo anyways.

MA is getting way over confident and Jalal not being on Jodha will cause huge problems even in future. I hope they resolve the letter mystery, else all will still not be well between JaJo even after Ben exits.