17th Dec JA-JO - Two innocent souls, Two culpable beings - Page 4

Originally posted by: sun29

awww member e khaas,sense and sensibility ki mallika ,my chahithi member🤗..am so happy i read your post...you are as always so right too

Loool my chaheeti begum...forehead kisses😆

no one was at fault yet they were at fault thrown into this web of deceit by the makdi woman of their life ...

You know thats what Im trying to say, in the last episode..even if it hadn't been for MA, Tansen and what not..both of them did mishandle/misjudge a few things...

the scene was breath taking just for the awesome performance...and about Jalal ...till today no one can decipher what is going on in his mind ...it is so frustrating...yesterday till the time he moved towards her and uttered those dialogues everyone of us thought it was more lust and on monday seeing his dreams we got some idea what he was thinking coz till friday he seemed to be so straight faced with no emotions to be displayed and we wondered if it was jodha or atgah khan who wrote him

I've just realized one thing - even Jalal doesn't know what goes on in his mind...thats why none of us know what goes on in his mind 😆

so in short this guy is tedha...and he feels a lot for her and deeply too ..but until he names it as love we shall all hold our horses and raise the question mark on our forehead ...all those dialogues even though alcohol induced was from his heart..his trembling ,bowing only for her...it is kind of deep deep connect which the conscious Jalal refuses to accept...if he was not under the influence of alcohol we would have never heard what he felt...so the hosh wala Jalal has to accept it loud and clear for us to breath a sigh of relief ..till then he will want to hurt her like she hurt him...hence throw benazir on her face ,show her he has many women ready to fall all over him ...and he will try his best to replace her too..but sadly it is all going to hit him back

Yup it will... he could have gone off on wars, sulked and ignored her too...but then that would make him very sensible, you see? 😆

jodha too has to start consciously realising that she is not his friend and what she feels is much much more...her actions yesterday was more of a deep emotional connect,overwhelming while he was speaking and if he had continued to talk to her holding her hand the whole night she would have stood there listening to him ...but she is not ready for the physical part ,she is scared and forcing on her just made it worse...mercifully she was not the jodha of the snow storm night but she too has evolved...

Yup..I don't think Jodha lately has ever been consciously wrong towards him...but, there were quite a few posts yesterday that said she didn't lead him on...yes from her angle she didn't - but, try telling the guys that...their mind works different to ours...thats why my mom always told me - as I think your mom would have yours - better keep a safe physical distance from guys 😆

This is all the more true when you want to show empathy but not jump into the physical relationship yet... 😊

hence umeed hai in dono ka😆...stumbling ,falling shouting ,screaming,weeping they will find the way back to each other am sure...

Yup...they will..and then again they'll stumble and fall etc etc

MA ne self goal maara hai 😆

True! Alakh was asking me this too - WTH is MA trying to achieve? Her political ambitions have turned out to be ripping apart Jalal's begums one by one!😕

Lashy my dear, I love your elaborately fair and characteristically balanced analysis, with a somewhat overly meticulous assignment of blame to both sides, though I am on a rather different wavelength.

This is in good part because I have never liked the way Jodha behaved with a generous and indulgent Jalal, while all the while taking full advantage of being an emperor's wife. She basically wanted him to be a friend without benefits, in perpetuity . But I have tried my best, in my post on this episode, to be fair to her.

But I do not see this part, @blue, the same way. There is an icy fury to Jalal right now, a desire to hurt savagely, a kind of refined, deliberate cruelty. He is not so much trying to make Jodha jealous a as to humiliate her.

I feel Vicki has got it spot on when she says that The rejection ( twice over ) and the pain that he must have felt cannot be fathomed. Humiliation of honour , of sentiments - and that too for a man of pride and self-honour is too much. Come to think of it , the chaos theory played fully to Maaham's advantage. You cannot explain anything to Jalaal right now and he is going to unleash his fury on Jodha.

So we come to my comment that Jodha will probably now find out, at least for a while, what it feels like to be consigned to the outer darkness because the Sun King has turned away from her, and that it would be interesting to see how she handles it.

On the initial evidence, badly. I cannot fathom what possessed her to stand up, assuming that Jalal would actually seat her next to him after that dust up earlier in the day. It was the height of folly, and Jalal used it to the full. As for the precap, why does she go to his bedside to return that jewellery, instead of sending it thru Motibai? Masochism?

I was also appalled at the way in which she charged into his room and lectured him on his feeling not prem, but stree ki lalasa, which seems to be her 'in' phrase, the replacement for vaasnapoorti! And this after listening to him bare his innermost being to her the previous night. It was so ugly that I blenched. Is this what she meant when she told Kanha that she would have to go and apologise to him?

I am glad she is now getting it in the face with both barrels. She has had it coming for a long time, far too long, snubbing him and yet using him whenever it suited her, and now it is payback time. She has to learn what humiliation and heartache are like before she will be worthy to be loved.

And no, I do not agree with you that he does not love her. It is his misfortune, but he does.

Shyamala Aunty

Originally posted by: lashy

Both are to blame.. 😊 both are innocent at heart and don't intentionally want to hurt another...thats what matters...

He wants to avenge his hurt etc..but, tomorrow if Jodha is in trouble, he'll be the first one to run to help her out..

I am so happy to c ur post. First of all, I have to say I loved sensuous and Dreamy episode that we got on MOnday especially Jalal's 4 dreams. But, for some reason I loved the beginning of tuesday's episode ( where Jalal shares his feeling with Jodha.)a tad more than monday's I LOVED Jala's expressions not that I did not before. But, yesterday in that scene I was b;own away by his expressions changing by microsecond showing nervousness, excitementm, happiness, surprise, shock, and then anger. I loved the scene until their foreheads met after that I was so sad to c Jalal like that and today felt very bad and sad to c Jodha humiliated by Jalal.

coffee pakkatula vecchundu, 1/2 hr dedicate panni, fulla padhichaen.

Originally posted by: sashashyam

Lashy my dear, I love your elaborately fair and characteristically balanced analysis, with a somewhat overly meticulous assignment of blame to both sides, though I am on a rather different wavelength.

This is in good part because I have never liked the way Jodha behaved with a generous and indulgent Jalal, while all the while taking full advantage of being an emperor's wife. She basically wanted him to be a friend without benefits, in perpetuity . But I have tried my best, in my post on this episode, to be fair to her.

But I do not see this part, @blue, the same way. There is an icy fury to Jalal right now, a desire to hurt savagely, a kind of refined, deliberate cruelty. He is not so much trying to make Jodha jealous a as to humiliate her.

I feel Vicki has got it spot on when she says that The rejection ( twice over ) and the pain that he must have felt cannot be fathomed. Humiliation of honour , of sentiments - and that too for a man of pride and self-honour is too much. Come to think of it , the chaos theory played fully to Maaham's advantage. You cannot explain anything to Jalaal right now and he is going to unleash his fury on Jodha.

So we come to my comment that Jodha will probably now find out, at least for a while, what it feels like to be consigned to the outer darkness because the Sun King has turned away from her, and that it would be interesting to see how she handles it.

On the initial evidence, badly. I cannot fathom what possessed her to stand up, assuming that Jalal would actually seat her next to him after that dust up earlier in the day. It was the height of folly, and Jalal used it to the full. As for the precap, why does she go to his bedside to return that jewellery, instead of sending it thru Motibai? Masochism?

I was also appalled at the way in which she charged into his room and lectured him on his feeling not prem, but stree ki lalasa, which seems to be her 'in' phrase, the replacement for vaasnapoorti! And this after listening to him bare his innermost being to her the previous night. It was so ugly that I blenched. Is this what she meant when she told Kanha that she would have to go and apologise to him?

I am glad she is now getting it in the face with both barrels. She has had it coming for a long time, far too long, snubbing him and yet using him whenever it suited her, and now it is payback time. She has to learn what humiliation and heartache are like before she will be worthy to be loved.

And no, I do not agree with you that he does not love her. It is his misfortune, but he does.

Shyamala Aunty

Well what am I to do if Lash has herself declared the souls innocent...

I agree fully with you, both about Jodha and about Jalal. But all he seems to care about now is driving a stiletto as deep into her as he can and then turning it once more, and the instrument be damned. Moreover, you have to factor in the way an emperor thinks; he is accountable to no one and can behave any way he likes; everyone else has to adjust to him. So perhaps he just does not care.

But I wish that Benazir had been a real slinky, gorgeous temptress, a Central Asian Menaka. She looks like an overweight, out of condition belly dancer. Just look at the upper arms; she looks 35 and more. Pity their budget did not run to a really seductive girl.

Shyamala

Originally posted by: loveanime

I am so glad shyamala you too believe that Jodha deserves this. I am sorry if I had any sympathy left for her from her yesterday she just killed it all by vomiting an unpardonable line. Once again she humiliated him this time deliberately with all her senses, if last time can be deemed an unfortunate accident today was not. When a man who is king and values that role in his life the most coveted when he equates the importance of his crown to marrying a woman that is how highly he places that relation. Jodha just cheapened by equating his most honored thinking to lust, did you see Jalal eyes bulge at this point. I think he snapped at that moment, letter or no letter it is he who should not forgive her, if he had any doubt at that point about the letter it no longer mattered her crime was even more worst that denying the integrity of the letter. But I also will not condone what he is doing to her in terms of public humiliation not because I feel sorry for Jodha, but because it is he who is looking bad as well. Shehensha-e-hind sitting beside a common courtesan, oh boy that looked cheap. I am all for payback Jalal but please don't lower your status in due process. Jodha doesn't understand love, but that doesn't mean they don't deserve to be loved or can't recognize it when they see it, she doesn't get love because she just doesn't respect it that is the bottom line of why she is so undeserving for him. I think Jalal will come running back to her somehow but I hope he doesn't she is not worth it.

Originally posted by: sashashyam

Lashy my dear, I love your elaborately fair and characteristically balanced analysis, with a somewhat overly meticulous assignment of blame to both sides, though I am on a rather different wavelength.

This is in good part because I have never liked the way Jodha behaved with a generous and indulgent Jalal, while all the while taking full advantage of being an emperor's wife. She basically wanted him to be a friend without benefits, in perpetuity . But I have tried my best, in my post on this episode, to be fair to her.

But I do not see this part, @blue, the same way. There is an icy fury to Jalal right now, a desire to hurt savagely, a kind of refined, deliberate cruelty. He is not so much trying to make Jodha jealous a as to humiliate her.

I feel Vicki has got it spot on when she says that The rejection ( twice over ) and the pain that he must have felt cannot be fathomed. Humiliation of honour , of sentiments - and that too for a man of pride and self-honour is too much. Come to think of it , the chaos theory played fully to Maaham's advantage. You cannot explain anything to Jalaal right now and he is going to unleash his fury on Jodha.

So we come to my comment that Jodha will probably now find out, at least for a while, what it feels like to be consigned to the outer darkness because the Sun King has turned away from her, and that it would be interesting to see how she handles it.

On the initial evidence, badly. I cannot fathom what possessed her to stand up, assuming that Jalal would actually seat her next to him after that dust up earlier in the day. It was the height of folly, and Jalal used it to the full. As for the precap, why does she go to his bedside to return that jewellery, instead of sending it thru Motibai? Masochism?

I was also appalled at the way in which she charged into his room and lectured him on his feeling not prem, but stree ki lalasa, which seems to be her 'in' phrase, the replacement for vaasnapoorti! And this after listening to him bare his innermost being to her the previous night. It was so ugly that I blenched. Is this what she meant when she told Kanha that she would have to go and apologise to him?

I am glad she is now getting it in the face with both barrels. She has had it coming for a long time, far too long, snubbing him and yet using him whenever it suited her, and now it is payback time. She has to learn what humiliation and heartache are like before she will be worthy to be loved.

And no, I do not agree with you that he does not love her. It is his misfortune, but he does.

Shyamala Aunty

fingers crossed and as u have said this to shall pass...thanks for the wonderful anaylsis.👏

Lashy,

Am catching up with some posts in this forum, and just read this thread. will have to catch up with your other posts. Your writing is very balanced. I think the story is trying to show both Jalal and Jodha as ordinary human beings. So they will be wrong at some time or another. It's ok. It's a story only. Things will change.

I am guessing that once Jalal settles down a little bit, he will remember that Jodha does not lie, and so if she said she didn't write that letter, she didn't. He may not suspect Maham immediately. May be he will think someone is trying to trap Maham also. Or Maham herself will say that she is being trapped.

wow a lot has definitely happened here... 😆