Mughals - JA(REAL) is not Fiction-Pt4 - Author/TM's note on Pg1 and 91 - Page 38

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history_geek thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago

Originally posted by: lashy


This would have been an AMAZING twist...had they executed the current track properly...with Hakim being introduced as innocent...and turning to be the true plotter behind Ben..not Abul Maali as we thought etc etc...

However, since the focus of this BENAZIR track has shifted to something else completely, adding this new Begum to the twist now feels like 'Oh God ANOTHER villain'
Lets see how they take it!!😃
Thanks for the info...



Before they'll show this in the serial, i'll update. Atleast we'll be better equipped to deal/predict coming tracks. It seems one villain will leave and other will enter. To be updated soon. 😊
Edited by history_geek - 11 years ago
Arieltabi thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
Hey Abhay. There is a local newspaper here. Its not very famous. Today my mom bought that to know about some public xm timing. Thnk God she bought it today. Cause in that paper there was a report about Muslim Harem. Especially Mughal Harem. Its a whole page article. There they have written about Mughal harem ladies life style dresses etc.Many things u have mention here is written there.
About dress. They have said what u mention here. They said the Mughal ladies used to wear long gowns.Before Akbar's era the mughal ladies used to wear persian dress. But from Akbar's time. They started wearing Rajputani dresses too.They even mention about fashionable attires. People were saying na jodha won't wear that long neck dress. In that article it was written To enhance their beauty they used to wear fashionable attires.
They wrote that many european historian says Harem was like jail women don't have any freedom there. They were there just to give birth children. Which is not TRUE. The ladies can't go out of harem.But they have freedom in harem.They had their own singers and dancers to entertain them. They used to play chess ludo. They even like to hunt. They used to go to hunting trips with kings. The mughal harem ladies were very intelligent and talented. They had knowledge about national politics. Some were involved in politics and business. They used to give advice to kings on many political issues. They said something like the mughal harem ladies were ahead of their age.Though at that time normal girls were not educated. There was no chance of girl education. But the Mughal harem ladies were well educated and talented. They had knowledge about many things.
Btw they said harem were not just for queens and bandis the king's mom, step mom, sis, aunts also used to live there. There were harem gaurds. They said king appointed many lady spies in the harem too to know about all the queens what they r doing. Is that true,Abhay?
They said at Babur and Humayan time their Harem was very small. But from Akbar:s time they got bigger. Akbar had 5thousand women in his harem. Is that true??????
There was a mention of Jahangir's mom Marium-Uz-Zamani and her palace. They even mention Razia Sultan.
They said the mughal queens used to wear a dress just for some hours. They never wear one dress twice. After wearing a dress they used to give them to bandis.
Abhay. They said every queen used to get money. But they used to get money according to their age, beauty.and talent. Actually Abhay once I was watching mega structure in National Geography chanel. There they were showing Taj Mahal. There one historian said the same thing the mughal queens used to get money according to their status. Jiska audha jitna bara jo shenshah ki jitni favorite use utna jyada money milta tha. Is that true Abhay? No wonder Rukku is so obsessed with her Audha 😆
If I get chance I could have scan the paper and post it here but the problem its written in Bangla. Many things U have written in ur post was written there. I was wondering did that guy read ur post and made that full page article. 😆 .I got really exited reading it thought to share it here. Pls answer my question Abhay if u get time. 😊
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Posted: 11 years ago

Originally posted by: brownprincess25

How did Chakanya found out about using girls like that? Because it was started by King Pontus...do you know?




Originally posted by: history_geek

Hi.
Yes, i know about Pontus, the ancient kingdom of Asia Minor.😊

BTW, which King of Pontus are you talking about.😕 Coz there were 10-12 major rulers.

King Mithridates VI Eupator, used to take such poisonous doses in "controlled' amount, as there was a fear of conspiracy to kill him using poison. So, to develop immunity he did so.

But, this costed him as well. After getting defeated from Pompey, he tried to commit suicide😕. And, ingested poison, but did not die.😆


Coming to point:

Chanakya time-period is around 330 B.C. And, that King of Pontus 100 B.C.
So, clearly, Chanakya existed 230 years, BEFORE that king.

Hence, Chanakya DID NOT learn this art from that Pontus's king.😊I

P.S --> Mithridates VI is mentioned as the deadliest enemy of Roman empire. Roman texts do give a good account of him.

1. A History of Rome, LeGlay
2. The Poison King-The Life of Mithridates-Rome's deadliest enemy, by Mayor




Originally posted by: brownprincess25

That one (in red)...Right I learned about him in World History class. His mom also had a hand in attempting to kill him. Okay but who started this vishkanya business? I have read that it is mentioned in some purana i think Kalki. Thanks for ur time



Yeah, i also found his history really strange. Even, his father was poisoned, during a celebration. And, his mother attempted repeated coups, in favor of his younger brother. So, he ran away and started this practice of taking such doses, as he feared he may lose his life in same manner. And, later on coming to throne, imprisoned his mother and brother both as well. BTW, he married his own sister also. Don't you feel he used this marriage in a similar way as Napoleon I, used Josephine, to solidify his claim to throne in France.

Regarding, Vishkanya business, as far as i know, it was first mentioned by Chanakya in DETAIL in Arthashashtra. And, throughout the Mauryan period, they were actively used to assasinate the enemies. The purana you mentioned, Kalki Purana, also mentions a vishkanya, Sulochana. But, that is considered to be a mythological text. 😊
Edited by history_geek - 11 years ago
MaddyO thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago

Originally posted by: history_geek



Maddy,

This talk is not only restricted to IF, but even my inbox, as well.😆
So, finally writing what we know.

Told you already, that the movie was a sheer NON-SENSE. Neither Akbar was like that nor Jodha. And, "NEITHER" Bharmal "gifted" his daughter in that manner. Hope, you have not forgotten Amer's war with Sharifuddin.




Now, your MAIN question. None of us, have read " TILL NOW ", about Heera leaving Agra for Amer, in that manner, means after falling out with Akbar.
Though, still reading, if find something, will update.

Yup, you are correct, Akbar did visit Amer. How many times - No idea, as of now...A lot of text is still to be read..! But, you may for time being settle down with following information. And see his strong affinity towards Amer😉-->>

This was Akbar's policy.
" Akbar's Hindu Father/brother's in law, stood as equals with his Muslim Father/Brother's in Law. They held their heads HIGH in the Mughal court, like other Muslim nobles/courtesans. The only restriction he had put on them was -- they could not drink, dine with him. "

Now, the "STRANGE DEPARTURE" from this practice ---> Akbar DID drink, etc. with his Ameri relatives..!!. This was in Ameri and other contemporary accounts. And, they were invited in his royal functions, etc. as well.



Thanks for the reply Abhay, I know how much swamped you must be with all the Qs😊

Lines in blue, Why put restrictions on them? Was it due to vegetarianism by them? (Can't be that, sounds doubtful to me too but I ask this because in one episode they showed Jodha cooks for Jalal by way of thanks & when he asks her to eat with him says my food is different so Jalal then says he will eat her food)

So THEY could not eat, drink with him (means at DEK functions etc.) but Akbar did eat with them in Amer?

BTW - hope you can move your thread to 1st page

I check from time to time, found so many posts today which I had not read, all so fascinating


Edited by MaddyO - 11 years ago
history_geek thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago

Originally posted by: Arieltabi

Hey Abhay. There is a local newspaper here. Its not very famous. Today my mom bought that to know about some public xm timing. Thnk God she bought it today. Cause in that paper there was a report about Muslim Harem. Especially Mughal Harem. Its a whole page article. There they have written about Mughal harem ladies life style dresses etc.Many things u have mention here is written there.
About dress. They have said what u mention here. They said the Mughal ladies used to wear long gowns.Before Akbar's era the mughal ladies used to wear persian dress. But from Akbar's time. They started wearing Rajputani dresses too.They even mention about fashionable attires. People were saying na jodha won't wear that long neck dress. In that article it was written To enhance their beauty they used to wear fashionable attires.
They wrote that many european historian says Harem was like jail women don't have any freedom there. They were there just to give birth children. Which is not TRUE. The ladies can't go out of harem.But they have freedom in harem.They had their own singers and dancers to entertain them. They used to play chess ludo. They even like to hunt. They used to go to hunting trips with kings. The mughal harem ladies were very intelligent and talented. They had knowledge about national politics. Some were involved in politics and business. They used to give advice to kings on many political issues. They said something like the mughal harem ladies were ahead of their age.Though at that time normal girls were not educated. There was no chance of girl education. But the Mughal harem ladies were well educated and talented. They had knowledge about many things.
Btw they said harem were not just for queens and bandis the king's mom, step mom, sis, aunts also used to live there. There were harem gaurds. They said king appointed many lady spies in the harem too to know about all the queens what they r doing. Is that true,Abhay?
They said at Babur and Humayan time their Harem was very small. But from Akbar:s time they got bigger. Akbar had 5thousand women in his harem. Is that true??????
There was a mention of Jahangir's mom Marium-Uz-Zamani and her palace. They even mention Razia Sultan.
They said the mughal queens used to wear a dress just for some hours. They never wear one dress twice. After wearing a dress they used to give them to bandis.
Abhay. They said every queen used to get money. But they used to get money according to their age, beauty.and talent. Actually Abhay once I was watching mega structure in National Geography chanel. There they were showing Taj Mahal. There one historian said the same thing the mughal queens used to get money according to their status. Jiska audha jitna bara jo shenshah ki jitni favorite use utna jyada money milta tha. Is that true Abhay? No wonder Rukku is so obsessed with her Audha 😆
If I get chance I could have scan the paper and post it here but the problem its written in Bangla. Many things U have written in ur post was written there. I was wondering did that guy read ur post and made that full page article. 😆 .I got really exited reading it thought to share it here. Pls answer my question Abhay if u get time. 😊




Hi,

TFS this info here. Awesome work. Agree with 'majority' of it. Replying to this will take some time as already loaded with questions and your info is from a diverse arena. But, now you must have 'realized' how nice it feels when you explore history yourself, and get something which connects you with the events on the show. And, this excitement is quite evident in your writeup also, as it was in my MAIN post on page-1, of this thread. 😊 Reading and connecting something with the show is a treat...!.

And, regarding the origin of the information, i took this information from the recently concluded Mughal exhibition in Delhi whose link is in my thread on page-1..see there, Portuguese accounts, Rajputana n Mughal chronicles, and some other sources. Probably, the newspaper from where you got this, must have searched some chronicles only, coz facts are facts, no matter whosoever writes it. 😊 One just needs to be sure about the degree of authenticity of the info, and that comes after verifying from multiple archives. And, i don't know, if the newspaper took it from this thread.😆

@All...
Friends, Keep sharing such interesting findings, as the thread was started for this topic only. It should be a 2-way process. It enriches all of us.
Edited by history_geek - 11 years ago
history_geek thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago

Originally posted by: brownprincess25

Abhay, I have heard from so many the real Akbar had met Meera on many accounts. If so, how were their visits like since he was a spiritual person I am very interested in his spiritual aspect.

Thanks for answering my questions,

Shivani



Welcome,

I have also "heard" this anecdote. This says --> "Akbar heard about Meera Bai's spiritualism and decided to meet her. So, he took his court musician Tansen and went to Mewar's palace, dressed as a beggar. And, placed a precious jewel/necklace at her feet, after being impressed by her".

Now, as far as facts are considered, Meera disappeared around 1557. And, Tansen came to Akbar's court around 1562. So, dates do not match at all. So, how can Akbar take Tansen to Mewar at that time.?.(i mean before 1562.?.). Also, Akbar was 14-15 years old, at that time. It's tough to believe that this meeting actually happened. Moreover, around 1556 the 2nd battle of Panipat had just concluded. So, again it's not easy to accept this event, coz he had just established control over Delhi and there were rebellions in Jaunpur as well. Again, around 1557(when Meera was last heard of), Akbar was busy in the siege of Mankot.

Considering "any" factor, this meeting is highly unlikely to happen.
I have personally tried to verify this MANY times, but events/dates, prove otherwise.😊


BTW, Regarding spiritual aspect, you may check this.
https://www.indiaforums.com/forum/post/99825548
Edited by history_geek - 11 years ago
Arieltabi thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
Yeah Abhay it feels great 😊 .I used to hate history in school. I never thought reading history can b this much exciting and interesting. This show and especially ur posts made me interested in history. Now I want to read more and more about them.
history_geek thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
Originally posted by aanchal_c

abhay,i just saw a promo for MP for the boondi ka yudh,where bairam khan fought against MP,his father and i guess even the queens participated...so who won and who lost?



Aanchal,
I have not read about a specific encounter between MP and Bairam, till now. But, Boondi finally came under Mughals, in first quarter of 1568, during Akbar's time. Rao Surjan Singh Hada, ruled till then(afterwards also). Infact, during lifetime of Bairam, Boondi was independent. But Boondi incident is significant for other reasons -->>. The final encounter was in favor of Mughals and was mediated by Ameris. I strongly feel this will be shown in JA as well.

None of us have read of women warring against Mughals, and while women fighting Mughals is perhaps not mentioned specifically, they may have participated indirectly (we cannot rule out the possibility). 😊
adiana12 thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago

Originally posted by: history_geek

Originally posted by aanchal_c

abhay,i just saw a promo for MP for the boondi ka yudh,where bairam khan fought against MP,his father and i guess even the queens participated...so who won and who lost?



Aanchal,
I have not read about a specific encounter between MP and Bairam, till now. But, Boondi finally came under Mughals, in first quarter of 1568, during Akbar's time. Rao Surjan Singh Hada, ruled till then(afterwards also). Infact, during lifetime of Bairam, Boondi was independent. But Boondi incident is significant for other reasons -->>. The final encounter was in favor of Mughals and was mediated by Ameris. I strongly feel this will be shown in JA as well.

None of us have read of women warring against Mughals, and while women fighting Mughals is perhaps not mentioned specifically, they may have participated indirectly (we cannot rule out the possibility). 😊


Abahy when are you going to tell us about MH's mother's actions related to the current track???? Am waiting impatiently!!!!!!
history_geek thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
Originally posted by adianasr

Abhay you have said that all the conspirators were those who were closer to Akbar. Dont forget the saying 'Keep your friends close but keep your enemies close'. Akbar knw who were his loyals and who wanted his throne and this ability to understand human psyche was what made him keep those enemical to him closer!!!! To me it seems a deliberate ploy by the very highly intelligent Emperor to keep those enemical to him closer so that he could monitor them!!!



Hi Adi,

Just missed replying to you. Thanx for these beautiful lines. Before i start, must say, your lines took me straight to 16th century Italy, and was instantaneously reminded of Machiavellianism, and the cunning policies of running the state during Renaissance.😊

BTW, regarding our Shahenshah, this time he was "sach mein" deceived, as i read in the account.😕 Not questioning his intelligence, but yes at times, humans are mistaken. And, do get 'dhokha' in differentiating, friends and enemies.

Afterall, he is our Emperor in making, who has to win Hindustan, yet. And, in this incident, following words justify him - Trust is a skill "learned over time" so that,-> like a trained athlete, one makes right moves, "usually" without much reflection. And, this incident MAY BE a major "dhakka" for him. As, we say, shattered legs may heal in time, but "some" betrayals fester and poison the soul.

P.S. --> I have not updated complete info of this event, still preparing the post. It'll be more clear, then, what i mean here. 😊 Just want to be sure before posting.

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