Why does Hamida love Jodha so much? - Page 9

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jyoti06 thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#81

Originally posted by: skanda12

Jyoti, those are brilliant points and also I must confess I never saw those angles. That Rajput shagun angle is an inspired thought. very likely indeed, especially since she is so "religious" and "superstition minded". And this idea that Jodha is Jalal's opposite and may be the most llikely waaris-bearer is her insight and intuition, most likely.
But the best point you have made is this fact that somehow Hamida counts on Jodha to bring her closer to Jala. If Ruq had that intention by now she would have at least tried to bring mother and son together which she didn't na? And yes, hamida must be secretly hurting at Maham's closeness to jalal! Which mother would not resent that?
From what you have written part of Hamida's approach may be her shagun-mindedness, and part of it may be her hunch that Jodha is the most likely to unseal Jala's heart as so far no one else has been able to do it, and at least Jodha is so different from Jalal in nature she may be able to shake him up and make his heart open up!



Exactly Mansi ..

See right from the day Jodha came to Agra , we hv seen Hamida always looking upto Jodha for a shubh samachar (good news ) ./.. even when Ruq was pregnent , Hamida was like Jodha is shubh for us ... so she does believe that Rajputs r very shubh when it comes to well being of their family

this is one reason that despite Jalal's life in danger now , Hamida still believes that Jodha cannot do any harm to Jalal being a Rajput .. thats just not in her blood ..
Mallika-E-Bhais thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#82
Excellent post, Aunty!
And YES! It was that, that was niggling me & I had forgotten to write.

It isn't that Hamida talks down about Jalal, to Jodha. It is her quiet acquiescence of Jodha's hatred, hostility & extreme & irrational anger that she possesses for Jalal. It is un-natural for a mother to be this immensely accepting of her daughter-in-law's irrational hatred of her son.

Hamida as a mother, misses herself being all important in a child's life. And she gets that position from Jodha who pumps her up most respectfully & beautifully. Therefore, she pours all her maternal hunger into this lonely & young Rajput girl.

These two are as bad a pair as Maham Anga & Ruqaiyya, and without the dangerous "side-effects! "🤣
Edited by Mallika-E-Bhais - 11 years ago
deejagi thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#83

Originally posted by: skanda12

Oh accha, so Humayun (and presumably Hamida) were definitely involved in getting Jalal married to Ruq! Thanks for that historical point!
But yes, even I am stumped how a mother could leave her son on the deathbed and try to save Jodha's life, no matter how much she loves Jodha! I have no explanation for that at all! Yesterday I just could not swallow that when I saw it on the screen!😲

Dont be stumped. Hamida Bhanu believes in Fakir baba's words and he has blessed Jodha to bear Jalal's child. So though she is tensed, she is trying her best to safeguard Jodha from the wild troop which might attack Jodha any time. As per Falir, The Mughal sultanate will have the heir through Jodha, so Hamida bhanu has no doubt about her son's survival but is worried to save Jodha so that in future she becomes a Dadi. If the angry mob kills Jodha who will give the royal heir?
Jaya
skanda12 thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#84

Originally posted by: sashashyam

Dear Mansi (and Tripti and Jyothi as well),

This is a very important and pertinent question, and all the objections and puzzling elements have been covered and cogently analysed by Mansi.

No one on this thread has really been able to answer Mansi's main question to my satisfaction. I do not know about Mansi's.

Even allowing for all the standard issue reasons, the main one being that Hamida Banu sees Jodha as the winning competitor in the treasure hunt for Jalal's dil , they do not add up to a valid and credible justification for the way in which she carries on vis a vis Jodha. Monday was still ok, Tuesday was unbelievable.

I always found it bizarre that right from the beginning, Hamida discusses her son in such a negative manner with his new begum , thus lowering him even further in Jodha's eyes. Yes, she does try and qualify her criticism of Jalal by citing extenuating circumstances, but the overall approach is invariably negative. How does Hamida think that she is helping bring them together by cribbing non stop about Jalal to Jodha?

She does not like Ruqaiya, who obviously despises her as weak and of no account in the power stakes. Fair enough.

But she does nothing to make sure that Jodha, who is obviously most unpromising begum material, is also taught to compromise, adjust, be polite and accommodating to Jalal and so on, so that she gets somewhere with him.

Any sensible woman out to bring her estranged son and this new wife of his together would have worked on both of them, to smoothen the rough edges of both. A successful interlocutor has to have credibility with both the warring parties. No on can accuse Hamida Banu of being impartial between Jalal and Jodha.

Instead, all that Hamida does is to puff Jodha even more in her self-esteem,which is one of the contributory causes for the present disaster. At one point, she tells Jodha that she can do no wrong. A worse certificate to an already sanctimonious and preachy young woman could hardly have been thought of.


She does nothing to educate this small town girl in what it means to rule an empire and about what Jalal means to his subjects. Jodha seems to treat Jalal most of the time with open defiance and hostility. What does Hamida do to tackle this bent of mind? Nothing.

That she feels her son is in the wrong means nothing; if she wants to bring them together, she has to get some hold on Jalal as well. This cannot be obtained by constantly siding with Jodha.

Lastly, Mansi, I too was startled by Hamida's priorities on Tuesday, as Jalal lies on what is presumed to be his death bed.

The only explanation I can think of is that Hamida's love for her son is a theoretical construct, not one from the heart. Maybe his passing would also have been only a theoretical loss, not a gut wrenching, corrosive grief.

Whereas, her sudden obsession with this Rajput girl is a real passion, into which she pours all the reserves of her maternal feelings in which her son is not interested, for he still resents what she did to him as a child.

Jodha, on the other hand, laps it all up eagerly and, like Oliver Twist, is always asking for more from her Ammijaan. Which, in turn, is manna from Heaven for Hamida, who finally has found someone for whom she is all important, and who loves, respects and obeys her.


That she does not use this obedience to good effect to drill some sense into Jodha is another matter altogether.

Shyamala

Shyamala:
You're right in the fact that my principal questions are still unanswered. My main questions were:
1. How did this affection for Jodha begin right upon Jodha's arrival itself with no previous interaction with Jodha, no assessment of Jodha at arrival, and no subsequent inflexion points on which to confirm that affection either (if anything as a mother of jalal she should have been alarmed with some of Jodha's doings since arrival)?
2. How cana mother of a dying man find the bandwidth to save Jodha from peril in the dying hours of her own son? This one question is taking me nowhere at all!
The only explanation I can find is this: (and its uncharitable to hamida, but when its the only answer staring at me that's all I've got!)
Hamida must be poutting her own interests above Jalal's. Jyoti mentioned in one of her points that hamida must have zeroed in on Jodha as the saviour of her own position in jala's life (visa vis Maham) and from there must have arisen a hope that this girl can help her achieve what Ruq or others had not tried to do before. At the very least Jodha was an oddity at the palace and may be able to shake up the stagnation and status quo in her relationship with her son jalal.
The reason for saving Jodha before attending to her son's death bed must also be somehow about her own needs rather than jalal's. If Jalal dies, there is nothing more to be said. But if jalal lives, Jodha is vital to the situation as again she is need for the Jalal shake up. So between the two of them, the insurance for the future is Jodha.
There that's a cold and calculating woman I have drawn a picture of there. That does not at all sound like hamida. But what else can I infer, unless I too take the angelic picture of her and say "She can never be like this?'
No other explanation is there!
Edited by skanda12 - 11 years ago
jyoti06 thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#85

Originally posted by: sashashyam



Whereas, her sudden obsession with this Rajput girl is a real passion, into which she pours all the reserves of her maternal feelings in which her son is not interested, for he still resents what she did to him as a child.

Jodha, on the other hand, laps it all up eagerly and, like Oliver Twist, is always asking for more from her Ammijaan. Which, in turn, is manna from Heaven for Hamida, who finally has found someone for whom she is all important, and who loves, respects and obeys her.




Shyamala



Shyamala but Hamida can pour out her maternal feelings for her other daughter Bakshi bano too na ...Why only Jodha .. This is where I feel its that blind faith on Jodha being a Rajput , she believes Jodha will bring my son closer to me and will also make him realise that he has a heart ... After humayun ka death , Hamida was saved by the Rajputs too in times of crisis , thats where her trust on Rajputs is more and Jodha being a Rajput gets the upper hand here in Hamida ka eyes I feel ..
Edited by jyoti06 - 11 years ago
skanda12 thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#86

Originally posted by: jyoti06



Exactly Mansi ..

See right from the day Jodha came to Agra , we hv seen Hamida always looking upto Jodha for a shubh samachar (good news ) ./.. even when Ruq was pregnent , Hamida was like Jodha is shubh for us ... so she does believe that Rajputs r very shubh when it comes to well being of their family

this is one reason that despite Jalal's life in danger now , Hamida still believes that Jodha cannot do any harm to Jalal being a Rajput .. thats just not in her blood ..

I am prepared to buy this point Jyoti, especially since she is forever calling pirbabas for prophecies! This shubh or "paak" angle must be very important to her! maybe she trusts in Jodha's "shubhness" more than in Jodha herself!
Jyoti, I've also answered with one slightly radical point of view in my reply to Shyamala's post above, where I am looking at a possible angle that Hamida may be more self-interested than interested in jalal or Jodha. Do you agree with this possibility>?
Edited by skanda12 - 11 years ago
-Khush- thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#87
Mansi ! Good questions !

I feel I would connect the Hamida from movie and show here !
Our Hamida here may be a little whiny here and there, but in times of crisis it is ONLY her who never loses her sanity ! ⭐️

Be it her giving apt reasons to stop Jalal and give amer 10 days to find evidence in miscarriage saga, or to not let her shock drown her and quickly give orders to not let Jalal's news out to ruq and outside harem ! 😉

See in the movie too, Hamida was shown very less but ultimately it's her who solves the misunderstanding between these two ! She is shown as the one who is despite knowing MA ka obsessive streak doesn't devote time fight with her until that fiasco, since he is shown very practical there !
Even here, although not the sinister side, but Hamida did say in her first scene with Jalal to her aid how MA manipulates it him due to his blind trust ! 🤓

Overall they have shown her character very wise and she has nerves of steel ! She put her queen role above her mother role since that is like Jalal said, and maina too - the cost of being the king/queen !

Plus in all these troubles, jodha has proved herself innocent and honest ! A queen like Hamida, you DO expect her to be a person who can identify the real self ! Duniya bahut dekhi hai !

Plus to add her faith in her babas! That jodha is the one for Jalal ka Salim !

All this faith, love for Rajputs, experience, the justice imbedded in a queen, etc make her have the trust in jodha !
Abie10 thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#88
Mansi, great post! Even I had the same questions after watching the episode. Still not sure what the reason could be. But maybe she feels Jodha could bring her closer to Jalal but that too as you said how sure is she that Jodha will have a way to Jalal's heart?😕

But she seems to be a good and calm in nature so her reasons might be genuine.😊 Will love to see why she's this way.😳
deejagi thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#89
Yes, as we see it is really a totally different way of love or obsession Hamida bhanu has for her new Bahu. The first thing about welcoming her to the palace in royal grndure was her fratitude towards the hidus and sepcifically towards Rajputs who helped her & her husband during their difficult days> as she mentioed earlier, during Jla's birth, she was sheltered with a rajput family who took a real care of her and saved her & her kid from their enemies. That wa sone reason she always cared and suported the Hindu servents in the harem. When she could suport the srvents with so much love, we should think how and what will be her feelings towards her Hindu bahu. She also knows that her son doesnt care more for his new begum, so jumped in to that spot to fill in that void. Despite having her husband all along with during her stay with Hindus, she would have faced the lonelyness and she is relating Jodha to that moment and here Jodha doesn't even have a suporting husband.
Since her son doesn't give enough space nd value as mother (emotionally), teh mkoment Jodha called her Ammijan, she was bowled at her innocent love. Jodha is the only one begum of Jalal who really venture to her and enquire about her. Jodha is the one who is not aiming fo the higher post in the harem and not even care to impress Jalal at the least.
may be she knows that she can mould this innocent girl to the exact requirement of Mughal Sultanate and lovable wife to er rebellious son. She knows her son's charecter so well, that he never gives up any task unsuccessfull and she has full faith in him converting Jodha's hatred towards love. May be she knows Hatred and Love are like night and day. She is hoping to see the broad day light in Jalal's life with the help of Jodha.
May be one more reason, she is expecting to have their heir from Jodha as none of her bahus could swing the cradle so far. Added to that te fakir from the Darga has blessed teh royal couple to have their heir soon.
Jaya

Originally posted by: sashashyam

Dear Mansi (and Tripti and Jyothi as well),

This is a very important and pertinent question, and all the objections and puzzling elements have been covered and cogently analysed by Mansi.

No one on this thread has really been able to answer Mansi's main question to my satisfaction. I do not know about Mansi's.

Even allowing for all the standard issue reasons, the main one being that Hamida Banu sees Jodha as the winning competitor in the treasure hunt for Jalal's dil , they do not add up to a valid and credible justification for the way in which she carries on vis a vis Jodha. Monday was still ok, Tuesday was unbelievable.

I always found it bizarre that right from the beginning, Hamida discusses her son in such a negative manner with his new begum , thus lowering him even further in Jodha's eyes. Yes, she does try and qualify her criticism of Jalal by citing extenuating circumstances, but the overall approach is invariably negative. How does Hamida think that she is helping bring them together by cribbing non stop about Jalal to Jodha?

She does not like Ruqaiya, who obviously despises her as weak and of no account in the power stakes. Fair enough.

But she does nothing to make sure that Jodha, who is obviously most unpromising begum material, is also taught to compromise, adjust, be polite and accommodating to Jalal and so on, so that she gets somewhere with him.

Any sensible woman out to bring her estranged son and this new wife of his together would have worked on both of them, to smoothen the rough edges of both. A successful interlocutor has to have credibility with both the warring parties. No on can accuse Hamida Banu of being impartial between Jalal and Jodha.

Instead, all that Hamida does is to puff Jodha even more in her self-esteem,which is one of the contributory causes for the present disaster. At one point, she tells Jodha that she can do no wrong. A worse certificate to an already sanctimonious and preachy young woman could hardly have been thought of.


She does nothing to educate this small town girl in what it means to rule an empire and about what Jalal means to his subjects. Jodha seems to treat Jalal most of the time with open defiance and hostility. What does Hamida do to tackle this bent of mind? Nothing.

That she feels her son is in the wrong means nothing; if she wants to bring them together, she has to get some hold on Jalal as well. This cannot be obtained by constantly siding with Jodha.

Lastly, Mansi, I too was startled by Hamida's priorities on Tuesday, as Jalal lies on what is presumed to be his death bed.

The only explanation I can think of is that Hamida's love for her son is a theoretical construct, not one from the heart. Maybe his passing would also have been only a theoretical loss, not a gut wrenching, corrosive grief.

Whereas, her sudden obsession with this Rajput girl is a real passion, into which she pours all the reserves of her maternal feelings in which her son is not interested, for he still resents what she did to him as a child.

Jodha, on the other hand, laps it all up eagerly and, like Oliver Twist, is always asking for more from her Ammijaan. Which, in turn, is manna from Heaven for Hamida, who finally has found someone for whom she is all important, and who loves, respects and obeys her.


That she does not use this obedience to good effect to drill some sense into Jodha is another matter altogether.

Shyamala

riyya6 thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#90
Iss pyaar ko kya Naam doon 😆 Good post mansi 👍🏼
Edited by riyya6 - 11 years ago

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