Why does Hamida love Jodha so much? - Page 11

Originally posted by: riyya6

Mansi I came to a conclusion that all Mughals are kind of obsessed with a person 😆

Jalal- jodha

Hamida- jodha

Adham- Motibai

Maham anga - jalal

Ruqaiyya- jalal

All harem ladies- jalal

Salima- bairam khan

Originally posted by: lashy

Ahem Rajputs not too far behind either😛

Mainawati - Shaguni Bai

Bharmal - Aan baan shaan

Sukanya - Getting married

MP - KJdks ksjdka aan jSdhk

Thanks guys...but its the creatives we must thank for providing much required comic relief in the form of Javeeda and MP!!!!

Mansi,

The part @ red in your post, is a neat amplification of the part @red in mine. The two are not contradictory, but supplementary.

There is the satisfaction of unfulfilled maternal feelings in Hamida and the disconnect in this respect between her and Jalal, on the one hand in my @red.. This explains a large part of Hamida's overwhelming focus on Jodha.

Next, there is the " But if jalal lives, Jodha is vital to the situation as again she is need for the Jalal shake up. So between the two of them, the insurance for the future is Jodha". Also there is the heir from Jodha that the Pir had prophesied, which has been cited here. So this too fits in neatly in terms if securing for Hamida a position she has never had before. All the more so as Ruqaiya, who does not care a hoot for Hamida, has to be negated.

It is not cynical, it is merely being practical. Imperial courts were notoriously treacherous, and one cannot blame Hamida for looking to her place in the sun of Jalal's imperial benevolence. It is not as though she is actively harming anyone. It also makes her vastly more interesting than the present saintly construct!

Shyamala

Originally posted by: skanda12

Shyamala:

You're right in the fact that my principal questions are still unanswered. My main questions were:

1. How did this affection for Jodha begin right upon Jodha's arrival itself with no previous interaction with Jodha, no assessment of Jodha at arrival, and no subsequent inflexion points on which to confirm that affection either (if anything as a mother of jalal she should have been alarmed with some of Jodha's doings since arrival)?

2. How cana mother of a dying man find the bandwidth to save Jodha from peril in the dying hours of her own son? This one question is taking me nowhere at all!

The only explanation I can find is this: (and its uncharitable to hamida, but when its the only answer staring at me that's all I've got!)

Hamida must be poutting her own interests above Jalal's. Jyoti mentioned in one of her points that hamida must have zeroed in on Jodha as the saviour of her own position in jala's life (visa vis Maham) and from there must have arisen a hope that this girl can help her achieve what Ruq or others had not tried to do before. At the very least Jodha was an oddity at the palace and may be able to shake up the stagnation and status quo in her relationship with her son jalal.

The reason for saving Jodha before attending to her son's death bed must also be somehow about her own needs rather than jalal's. If Jalal dies, there is nothing more to be said. But if jalal lives, Jodha is vital to the situation as again she is need for the Jalal shake up. So between the two of them, the insurance for the future is Jodha.

There that's a cold and calculating woman I have drawn a picture of there. That does not at all sound like hamida. But what else can I infer, unless I too take the angelic picture of her and say "She can never be like this?'

No other explanation is there!

Originally posted by: sashashyam

Dear Mansi (and Tripti and Jyothi as well),

This is a very important and pertinent question, and all the objections and puzzling elements have been covered and cogently analysed by Mansi.

No one on this thread has really been able to answer Mansi's main question to my satisfaction. I do not know about Mansi's.

Even allowing for all the standard issue reasons, the main one being that Hamida Banu sees Jodha as the winning competitor in the treasure hunt for Jalal's dil , they do not add up to a valid and credible justification for the way in which she carries on vis a vis Jodha. Monday was still ok, Tuesday was unbelievable.

I always found it bizarre that right from the beginning, Hamida discusses her son in such a negative manner with his new begum , thus lowering him even further in Jodha's eyes. Yes, she does try and qualify her criticism of Jalal by citing extenuating circumstances, but the overall approach is invariably negative. How does Hamida think that she is helping bring them together by cribbing non stop about Jalal to Jodha?

She does not like Ruqaiya, who obviously despises her as weak and of no account in the power stakes. Fair enough.

But she does nothing to make sure that Jodha, who is obviously most unpromising begum material, is also taught to compromise, adjust, be polite and accommodating to Jalal and so on, so that she gets somewhere with him.

Any sensible woman out to bring her estranged son and this new wife of his together would have worked on both of them, to smoothen the rough edges of both. A successful interlocutor has to have credibility with both the warring parties. No on can accuse Hamida Banu of being impartial between Jalal and Jodha.

Instead, all that Hamida does is to puff Jodha even more in her self-esteem,which is one of the contributory causes for the present disaster. At one point, she tells Jodha that she can do no wrong. A worse certificate to an already sanctimonious and preachy young woman could hardly have been thought of.

She does nothing to educate this small town girl in what it means to rule an empire and about what Jalal means to his subjects. Jodha seems to treat Jalal most of the time with open defiance and hostility. What does Hamida do to tackle this bent of mind? Nothing.

That she feels her son is in the wrong means nothing; if she wants to bring them together, she has to get some hold on Jalal as well. This cannot be obtained by constantly siding with Jodha.

Lastly, Mansi, I too was startled by Hamida's priorities on Tuesday, as Jalal lies on what is presumed to be his death bed.

The only explanation I can think of is that Hamida's love for her son is a theoretical construct, not one from the heart. Maybe his passing would also have been only a theoretical loss, not a gut wrenching, corrosive grief.

Whereas, her sudden obsession with this Rajput girl is a real passion, into which she pours all the reserves of her maternal feelings in which her son is not interested, for he still resents what she did to him as a child.

Jodha, on the other hand, laps it all up eagerly and, like Oliver Twist, is always asking for more from her Ammijaan. Which, in turn, is manna from Heaven for Hamida, who finally has found someone for whom she is all important, and who loves, respects and obeys her.

That she does not use this obedience to good effect to drill some sense into Jodha is another matter altogether.

Shyamala

@myviewprem 👍🏼

Yes, Aunty, excuse me for butting in, but with the last part , it makes total sense!

Mansi,

The questions you asked drifted thru' my mind too n after a lot of thinking here are my points

1) Before jodha's arrival , when hamida bano gets the news of a hindu begum being wed to her son , the shubh angle comes into the picture , as we see the flashbacks of ahindu queen saying to hamida tht jalal would make history between hindu n mughal friendship . Hamida is also aware of the rajput traits n their culture n values them a lot too , so she is already baised towards this gurl.
"
2) Then again jodha does not leave any opportunity to "chadofy hamida on chane ka jhaad " as she is extremely respectful n polite to her . Jodha fills the void jalal n ruqu have left for hamida , n thus she responds in a similar manner . This is in direct coherence with the fact tht hamida discusses jalal's upbringing with jodha subconsciously n indirectly.

3) third , i feel her very first conversation with jodha where jodha said tht jalal did not have heart n she dod not care fr his kingdom n wealth have stuck with hamida as she immediately said to her tht u saw wat he did not own n not wat he did. Her i feel , is when hamida saw jodha's golden heart and her courage to be different and different is wat jalal needs as per hamida's POV . The expectations kicks in the moment jodha mentions of dil because no one else seems to care about dil except hamida n even MA to some extent. hamida thinks tht this gurl might help get my son's dil back n thus could be the bridge she was looking for , for once jalal has dil he would be able to emotionally connect with hamida n understand why she left him n accept her .

4)I also feel tht hamida n jodha have the same basic nature except the irrational aggression tht jodha displays in front of jalal, n hamida recognizes the same because of her experience as a queen n thus appreciates jodha even more . This is displayed in the scene when jodha asks hamida why jalal was not like her n she candidly says tht he was Ma's upbringing, here she is not talking to her bahu but to a person who is her equal as she too feels tht there was injustice done with jodha , if she had senses , she would have told jodha tht an emperor has got to perform his duty and all the saboot was against you .

5) Fifth , point being tht hamida wishes well for her son n desperatly wants jodha to be around him as she is not selfish like any other women in jalal's life , she wants jalal to experience love n jodha is the best candidate for the trophy, she beleives tht only out of pure love would a child be produced . She does not blame ruqu for waaris for she knows her well n she wants jalal to feel love n tht is why she roots for jodha as her only hope for her son.

6) THe peer baba predictions also reinforce her faith in jodha n tht's wat makes her protective abt her .

7)Not to forget the constant praise she gets from AMer family too acts as a fodder 😉.

Last of all, why does she go to save jodha ... I think the reason is the compassion she has for her . She knows wat jodha did was by mistake , but at the same time she feels tht she should not dien tht is why she would safe guard her .Its like a mother losing a child trying to protect the other one.
N they r still waiting for gwalior vaid , so i guess hamida has not lost hope n she still is praying for her child but at the same time wants to hide jodha temporarily to be by her son's side. She knows tht she is the only one who can protect jodha n is trying to do wat is right ( like her foolish bahu-beti).

I hope it answers your questions.

Cheers
Kashi

Yes, Tripti, the jackpot, in short!!

All royal courts were and are treacherous, not just the Mughal one. See the fairly authentic one shown in Maharana Pratap, which is infinitely worse, with the youngest and favourite queen constantly plotting to kill the heir to the throne, while all the while pretending to love him even more than her own baby son.

And I have personally listened in fascination to our then PM Shri.Narasimha Rao, when he was our Minister in the External Affairs Ministry in 1988-89, describe to us young IFS officers what life was like in the court of the Nizam of Hyderabad pre-Independence. He used to say that after experiencing that, nothing could surprise or upset him any more.

Shyamala Aunty

Originally posted by: Mallika-E-Bhais

Yes, Aunty, excuse me for butting in, but with the last part , it makes total sense!

The Mughal court in particular, was excessively treacherous & every person however or maybe because of that, extremely dubious!! No-one was actually anyone else's. Whether it be brother, sister, father or even mother!

So it makes complete sense for Hamida to focus all her love on Jodha in the hopes that she would be the bridge between mother & son & to usher in the waaris to the Sultanate & give rise to her in the Emperor's eyes!

Yes Aunty. I remember a distant aunt who was a Maharani explain to me the workings of a royal court. It was frightening. Her mother sent her son away to a distant relative &'pretended that she had a still -born because he was born handicapped 😲. That part disgusted me a LOT!

Originally posted by: Mallika-E-Bhais

Your points are all well-made & good, Mansi. But I don't find it "irresponsible" of Hamida to dote in Jodha so.

The biggest pull that Jodha has is that she is the most pure & golden hearted of all the harem women! There is something about her clear-eyed , radiant goodness that makes everybody forgive her, that is Jodha. Whether it be her Mother-in-law or her husband, because the action might be foolish but the intent is pure.. Hamida un-consciously recognises this , and that has since Jodha's first day in her new world & home; been her prime Value in Hamida's eyes. Hamida understands this, because she is exactly like that. As pure-hearted & Good, as Jodha.

At the same time, she has great hopes from Jodha. Jodha being a Rajputani Raajkumaari reminds Hamida of all the goodness & bravery that was showered on Hamida & hubby & Mughals for if it wasn't for the ready & long refuge that the Umarkot royals gave to them; Jalal would've probably not been born. Imagine that you meet a person who offers you all that you look for , all that you've wanted; and suddenly! You're told that a person who is known (she had heard a lot about Jodha's "Husn" as she Informs Jodha during their informal moohdikhayi on Jodha's arrival in Agra) and from the same area/place as the former who helped you a world, is now going to be in close proximity to you, wouldn't that make you happy & make you want to know this person more?

Thirdly, since her nikaah to Jalal, Jodha is forever in deep trouble. She lands herself up in those same gigantic steel kadhais her husband regularly installs throughout India!😉! This further brings out Hamida's protective stance for Jodha & she shields her like a tigress shields a cub though in her case, it would be an exotic bird shielding an egg!😛

All the seer predictions must further make her all the more pliant towards Jodha & now she has all her duas & hopes pinned on her Bahu-Beti!

Don't ponder over "why" she loves her. Be thankful to Hamida for her un-flinching love & protection for Jodha would've been absolutely alone & lonely, if it wasn't for her paak saas!

Wow! Well said and I couldn't agree more, I know sometimes it might seem obsessive but I'm so glad Jodha has Hameeda and Jodha gives her a lot of respect and love too!