An epsiode of many conversations!

skanda12 thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#1

Friends, the episode yesterday was one filled with some outstanding conversations for me. The epsiode in fact seemed to just flow from one conversation to another, bringing out various nuances and shades of all the opinions of all the people affected by the crises in the Jodha-Jalal relationship. The story itself seemed to play out via conversations ...

Here is how it all affected me:


The opening convo between Adham and Maham:

Adham seemed behind the times when he started out by talking of the Holi colour throwing insult on Maham and berating Jodha for this gunah ... till Maham showed him why he needed to keep up with the more latest goings-on. She told him of Maianavati's arrival and the impending sending off of Jodha to Amer by Jalal. Adham then went back even further to cursing Jodha (remembering his enmity with on the Moti saga, no doubt). But again Maham brought him back to the present saying as long as Jodha was in Agra she was a Begum of the Emperor to whom he must show deference. I thought this showed an extreme shrewdness in Maham. She had sized up the fact that the Jodha-Jalal break up was only a 50-50 possibility that could still go either way. Jodha may go - or she may not go. Maybe that's why Maham hedged her bets when telling Adham to continue to show deference to Jodha.

The Hamida and Gulbadan(?) convo:

This convo was important because it gave the viewers the context of how Mainavati got to Agra. It became clear that Bharmal had read the paigam from Jalal stating clearly the situation in Agra (of the impending break up of his marriage with Jodha) and the need to take Jodha back to Amer. The convo showed that Bharmal had deputed Mainavati to go to Agra as he was busy fighting the bhagis in Amer. The convo also showed that where Maham was always quick to catch on to the latest happenings at the palace (i.e. Mainavati's arrival) this Hamida was a slowtop that got info late. And finally the convo also hinted that the Diwan-e-Khas had been summoned by Jalal to break open this crises, thus setting up the audience for a big show on this topic.

The convo between Jalal and Mainavati:

This was a very interesting dialogue. Mainavati first says how odd it was for her (a Rajvanshi queen) to be doing office at this sabha (something frowned upon in her clans). She then starts addressing Jalal about his his treatment of her sons and Jodha during the miscarriage crises. But Jalal was not about to be pushed onto the back foot. He said he ws not interested in re-discussing bygones, and as a King he was only doing his duty at the time - and now again as a King and husband he had decided to send Jodha back to Amer. And then he added the one sentence that would stem Mainavati's thought-process from going on in the direction she had set out: he said Jodha herself wants to go back to Amer! I saw this as a convo in which Mainavati tried to bowl a tough ball at Jalal, but he batted it back to her with speed and aplomb!

The Mainavati-Jodha convo:

This was another good conversation but it was not a surprise at all, because we all very well knew what Mainavati's arguments would be. She was a sixteenth century mother, a queen to boot, with two more daughters to marry off. Their family had already antagonised their clan by marrying Jodha into the Mughals and making an alliance with them. She could ill-afford to have Jodha back at Amer as a cast off. So instead she turned upon her own daughter to try and remind her of the way her marriage happened under the stress of unhappy circumstances in which their family had lost a war, of the sacrifices Jodha herself had agreed to make to help her family, of the duty Jodha continued to owe her family and of the understanding Jodha needed to show her own mother who had to act tough with her daughter despite loving her. In both these conversations that Mainavati had - first with Jalal and then with Jodha - I saw something very interesting about Mainavati. Her stock-in-trade method seems to be to "turn the tables on the other person". It didn't work well with Jalal, but it worked with Jodha. Jodha became a mixture of remorse, guilt, self-blame and self-sacrifice within a second. Can any one of us imagine what it would have been like to an unhappy and trapped young girl of barely twenty to have her own mother reject her in front of a grand sabha of hawkish in-laws, and especially in front of Jalal? The remarkable part of this conversation for me was the way Mainavati brushed aside the distress she would have to give Jodha emotionally, and filled her with enough "reasons" and "rationalisations" to make it all palatable both in public and in private! In fact there was no vestige of worry on Mainavati's face as to how Jodha would take all this. The only person who kept looking a bit puzzled, worried, or affected by what Jodha may be going through was Jalal himself. When Jodha said that one sentence to her mother that: "Jodha will die but she won't be a burden to you", I thought Jalal even went to the extent of looking a wee bit alarmed.

Jodha's convos with her antaratmas

After dispensing with Moti, in her own rooms, the conflicted mind of Jodha was well reflected via the two antaratmas of Jodha that appeared on the scene (dressed very well for antaratmas!). One of the antaratmas was giving Jodha the same continued advice of Mainavati - on why going back to Amer was not possible. Jodha was also quick to accept this advice. But it was with the other antaratma that Jodha had the best conversation of the whole episode! This second antaratma reminded Jodha that she had to stay on in Agra, and integrate with the culture here and continue to live with Jalal in good behaviour. Jodha then asks the antaratma if Jalal's behaviour was reasonable or good. Was he not the boor, the unpleasant, the unjust and unthinking one that had created this whole mess in her life here? The second antaratma (god bless her!) gave it to Jodha in no uncertain terms: "You were the one that started it all. Remember you came here with your precious ghrna? Did Jalal not bend to your every sharth, even allowing you your religion and your every whim? What more do you need him to do in the face of your unreleting ghrna? Do you not owe him anything in return for his allowances made for your happiness here?" The second antaratma did a splendid job ... before both antaratmas's disappeared and left Jodha to decide (with a word to Kanha) that suicide was the only way out! Whether Jodha heard the words of the second antaratma (on the subject of her ghrna and being the first offender) clearly right then, or whether it will all hit her later is to be seen.

Hamida and Mainavati's mutual admiration society

This again was an interesting conversation between two mothers who found themselves remarkably on the same page and it was therefore full of mutual compliments. But underneath the niceties, it was also about two motherly women who fully understood the plight of their daughters in the times they lived in. Both women showed their keenness to find the postive in a situation that nedeed both tact and tactics. Hamida first compliments Mainavati on using exactly the right advice with Jodha and even going on to say that nafrat here can become love if given a chance, which is what Mainavati had done. Mainavati then says "That chance to convert nafrat to love cannot come if the couple are apart from each other, and that Jodha has found another mother in Hamida." Both then refer to Jodha as their mutual daughter and Mainavati takes leave of Hamida almost as if saying "I've done my bit, now yours begins"! I could not help but imagine what this convo would have sounded like to Maham if she had been in that same room. It would have sounded to her like Hamida and Mainavati must be jointed at the hip!

Hamida and Gulbadan convo again

This short conversation semeed to serve the purpose of telling the viewers that due to a heavy heart (and possibly not wanting to risk having to take Jodha back) Mainavati had decided to leave without telling Jodha, and so it was incumbent now on Hamida to handle Jodha in the aftermath of this rejection by her own mother!

The Jalal-Hamida-Ruqaiaya convo

When Hamida runs to tell Jalal that Jodha is missing, his first reaction is disbelief, followed by a very quick return to practicality. He orders his troops to find Jodha at all costs. But it is when Jalal is again alone with Ruqaiaya that he begins his rants about the sitaution being untenable. His arguments are that it would be a disgrace on the Sultanate if a begum were to be found missing! Ruqaiaya then corrects him saying "Jodha may not be just "missing", she may have contemplated suicide (which I know being a woman myself and can see how she may feel rejected by both the husband and the mother)". Ruqaiya then goes on to tell Jalal that Jodha's clanswomen in the same position would have immolated themselves. All this does shock him (for I don't think he had actualy thought Jodha would go this dire extreme, even when in the sabha she had talked of death being better than returning to Amer and shaming her family). He nevertheless continues to say It would still be a disgrace to the Kingdom if Jodha were to commit suicide.

It is left to our imaginations to wonder whether Jalal felt anything for Jodha at all or whether all he was worried about was the prestige of the Kingdom. If he did feel fear and dismay on Jodha's count he was not showing it. Maybe tomorrow when he actuallly runs after her, he will have plenty of time to consider how her death may affect him! But for today, we have to believe his "Kingdom disgrace" is all he cares about for the moment!

A prediction I've got (in conjuction with Jyoti):

We think Jodha is now going to fall for Jalal first. Why?


a.
The second antaratma of Jodha has exposed this "ghrna" fault of Jodha and made Jodha aware of her role as first offender in this whole mess of a marriage. If Jodha were not the starter of enmity, Jalal's reactions would not be what they are. In fact, if we recall, it was Jalal overhearing Jodha tell Suryabhan about this horrible "jallad who needs to be beheaded" that then made him covet Jodha as trophy to own and then to crush. Now that the second antaratma has given this wake up call, Jodha may see the validity of these arguments and see her own faults.

b. Hamida is no doubt going to tell Jalal after the suicide-saving that Jodha needs to heal and he should take her to Ajmer Sharif for peace and prayers so that they both could repair their marriage. Jalal may see it as a chance to take her away from the palace to new surroundings and in privacy so that they could try to make a new beginning. This trip would therefore look like Jalal's initiative at healing the breach. Or even if its Hamida's idea, it would be put Jalal in a posiitive light for having readily acceded to the idea.


c.
There are going to be two chances for Jalal to save Jodha'a life now (in the water and with the tiger) and so Jodha is going to see him in an entirely different light as a saviour. She is going to feel beholden to him for her life and the bad side of Jalal may get replaced in her mind by his good side. In true serial style, these sound like the ingredients of a love blossoming in Jodha first. And when she thus changes her view of him, he may see soon thereafter that her that the "ghrna" has gone and something else which is very nice has come in its place!
Edited by skanda12 - 12 years ago

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meghanajain thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#2
Wonderful writeup as always. Tumhare muh mein ghee shakkar if Jodha falls in love first. I want her to fall first because I am tired of seeing senseless angry Jodha with too much ego. Jalal on the other hand is already calmed down and I can wait for him to show feelings later. Please Ekta listen to this prediction and end the butchering of Jodha's character!
KDR81 thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#3
Wow Dear,
Lovely one ...I am sleepy so can't write a few things of my own now but nonetheless , all points set across by u are very very logical indeed...😊 I too feel that, Jodha will be a bit chastised in all her actions with her Shahenshah Hubby, who in turn needs to be more suave with this Puerile but emotional Wife of Him...😃

Amen to that... !!😊

Regards,
Kamal
Edited by KDR81 - 12 years ago
ashpat thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#4
I love your detailed analysis on today's episode. My fav. parts is in purple and my comments are in red.


Originally posted by: skanda12


The Mainavati-Jodha convo:

This was another good conversation but it was not a surprise at all, because we all very well knew what Mainavati's arguments would be. She was a sixteenth century mother, a queen to boot, with two more daughters to marry off. Their family had already antagonised their clan by marrying Jodha into the Mughals and making an alliance with them. She could ill-afford to have Jodha back at Amer as a cast off. So instead she turned upon her own daughter to try and remind her of the way her marriage happened under the stress of unhappy circumstances in which their family had lost a war, of the sacrifices Jodha herself had agreed to make to help her family, of the duty Jodha continued to owe her family and of the understanding Jodha needed to show her own mother who had to act tough with her daughter despite loving her. In both these conversations that Mainavati had - first with Jalal and then with Jodha - I saw something very interesting about Mainavati. Her stock-in-trade method seems to be to "turn the tables on the other person". It didn't work well with Jalal, but it worked with Jodha. Jodha became a mixture of remorse, guilt, self-blame and self-sacrifice within a second. Can any one of us imagine what it would have been like to an unhappy and trapped young girl of barely twenty to have her own mother reject her in front of a grand sabha of hawkish in-laws, and especially in front of Jalal? The remarkable part of this conversation for me was the way Mainavati brushed aside the distress she would have to give Jodha emotionally, and filled her with enough "reasons" and "rationalisations" to make it all palatable both in public and in private!šŸ‘šŸ‘šŸ‘šŸ‘šŸ‘ In fact there was no vestige of worry on Mainavati's face as to how Jodha would take all this. The only person who kept looking a bit puzzled, worried, or affected by what Jodha may be going through was Jalal himself. When Jodha said that one sentence to her mother that: "Jodha will die but she won't be a burden to you", I thought Jalal even went to the extent of looking a wee bit alarmed.- I noticed that too. In the entire scene, I was trying to understand Jalal's expression. He seemed so puzzled and probably knew how Jodha must ahve felt especially when she kept telling Jalal that she wants to go back and how her familywill accept her etc..


The Jalal-Hamida-Ruqaiaya convo


It is left to our imaginations to wonder whether Jalal felt anything for Jodha at all or whether all he was worried about was the prestige of the Kingdom. If he did feel fear and dismay on Jodha's count he was not showing it. Maybe tomorrow when he actuallly runs after her, he will have plenty of time to consider how her death may affect him! But for today, we have to believe his "Kingdom disgrace" is all he cares about for the moment!- As much as I wish to believe that Jalal was feeling scared for Jodha, I feel he was more worried about his kindom's prestige. I feel like Jalal post MC track or should I say apology track, he seems indifferent to Jodha. Before MC tack, he was admiring Jodha's beauty, skills etc but now it feels like he does not seem to care. I thought he would try to patch up with Jodha and we will see him try placate her but on other hand he gave so called 2 choices to Jodha about going back to Amer or staying as his wife. Maybe it would have been nice if had told jodha that we could start over from being civil to each other...

A prediction I've got (in conjuction with Jyoti):

We think Jodha is now going to fall for Jalal first. Why? I read your reasons and it does make sense but I still want Jalal to fall in love first because he keeps saying that he does not have dil. I still don't know if I would like one to confess his or her love t other or both at same time like in JA movie.


a.
The second antaratma of Jodha has exposed this "ghrna" fault of Jodha and made Jodha aware of her role as first offender in this whole mess of a marriage. If Jodha were not the starter of enmity, Jalal's reactions would not be what they are. In fact, if we recall, it was Jalal overhearing Jodha tell Suryabhan about this horrible "jallad who needs to be beheaded" that then made him covet Jodha as trophy to own and then to crush. Now that the second antaratma has given this wake up call, Jodha may see the validity of these arguments and see her own faults.

b. Hamida is no doubt going to tell Jalal after the suicide-saving that Jodha needs to heal and he should take her to Ajmer Sharif for peace and prayers so that they both could repair their marriage. Jalal may see it as a chance to take her away from the palace to new surroundings and in privacy so that they could try to make a new beginning. This trip would therefore look like Jalal's initiative at healing the breach. Or even if its Hamida's idea, it would be put Jalal in a posiitive light for having readily acceded to the idea.


c.
There are going to be two chances for Jalal to save Jodha'a life now (in the water and with the tiger) and so Jodha is going to see him in an entirely different light as a saviour. She is going to feel beholden to him for her life and the bad side of Jalal may get replaced in her mind by his good side. In true serial style, these sound like the ingredients of a love blossoming in Jodha first. And when she thus changes her view of him, he may see soon thereafter that her that the "ghrna" has gone and something else which is very nice has come in its place!

elasingh thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#5
Wonderful analysis...I wanted Jodha to fall in love first but I take my words back...especially after MC track and todays open court humiliation of Jodha...
Nothing could be worse for Jodha than to fall in love with such an MCP ...Infact I am sure he might end up using that love to his advantage...becoz he is that kind of a man...No he is not really worried for Jodha...Its my opinion ...No issues...

Edited by elasingh - 12 years ago
riyya6 thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#6
mansi šŸ‘šŸ¼...
I fail to understand one thing, a girl who sacrifice for her family by accepting to get married to Mughal, Jalal... how could she overlook the fact that no matter what happen she cannot return back .. I agree Jalal gave her 2 option but i would have been happy if she choose to stay with Jalal in her own term... I think the whole thing is a mockery now... Why
see now Hyperwati stated clearly that she wont take jodha back, Jodha told cleary to Jalal she wants to go back...Jodha has become unwanted here... Hyperwati has a point there but why did not Jodha think of it earlier. I agree shes too broken n one after one but stilll...
Mansi on ur thoughts on Jodha falling for Jalal, i agree u have a point there. By saving her twice, Jalal will actually do what a husband needs to do for his Wife, Protect...😳... Jodha will start softening here, chances are there ...but my question is how will their love progress from here... Jodha wanted to go back, Mother dun want her, Jalal wanted to send her back to fulfill her wish...
if Jodha falls for jalal after that wont it be like forced... meaning she has no choice...
I really Hope Jalal falls for her 1st because of the mess they did on the going back to Ameer thing
skanda12 thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#7
Meghana, Ashpat and Kamal:
In the Jodha-Jalal relationship, if you notice, she has been the one to set up the first reactions to him, and then he has reacted to her reactions! This has happened right from the Amer trip. There he just went for a recce and incidentally was also told that she was the Gulab of the Rekistan. He went and saw her from curiosity. But it was her "sar kaat na" dialogue to Suryabhan that then made Jalal want to own, posess and crush her gurooor.
Then she came to Argra with her ghrna, and knowing she hates him made Jalal like a boor. He lost no opportunity in trying to best her guroor with his own brand of disgusting behaviour. But the miscarriage saga was a watershed moment when Jalal realised what he was doing was not nice or was not even just. He wanted out of this game, and decided to give her the choices to stay or leave. He has in fact shown signs of wanting to change his behaviour, although not always with success (eg. he lost it again in that Holi ka fiasco).
Now I feel if she was the first to drop the guroor, he too would respond with a change in his behaviour.
But the question for me is this: Why is Jodha the one to dictate the pace and quality of the relationship and why is Jalal responding to her rather than creating his own terms? Even now he is talking of Sultanate ka prestige instead of seeing what he can do with Jodha at the personal level.
Well, its my hope that she will change on this Ajmer trip, and he will also change after seeing her change, but I'd be happier still if at some point, he too starts taking the reins of the relationship in his hands to dictate the pace and quality of it.
Edited by skanda12 - 12 years ago
skanda12 thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#8

Originally posted by: elasingh

Wonderful analysis...I wanted Jodha to fall in love first but I take my words back...especially after MC track and todays open court humiliation of Jodha...

Nothing could be worse for Jodha than to fall in love with such an MCP ...Infact I am sure he might end up using that love to his advantage...becoz he is that kind of a man...No he is not really worried for Jodha...Its my opinion ...No issues...

Ela, thank God we live in this current century and not in those times when the value of women and their lives was so patently low. But its not just that Jalal is an MCP, the whole society then was cruel to women, and he was just part of this systematic lowering of women.
And yes, as of now it does look like Jalal is more worried bout his Sultanate Ka Prestige than about Jodha's feelings (or rather he is saying all that, but at some moments in the sabha, I did feel that he felt the sadness of Jodha slightly). Maybe he too thought to himself "What is the point of Jodha feeling all this, she has to be practical here!".
Also Ela, look at Mainavati. Back then a mother was congratulating herself after having told her daughter to stay at the sasuraal at any cost! Contrast that with the time we live in now. Our lives have changed so much. Just a couple of days back, a friend of mine was splitting up from a husband with rotten behaviour. The girl's mother said "I am going to advise my daughter to leave this marriage and come away. Better if this marriage breaks while I am still alive so that I can settle my daughter well again before I die". That's today's Mom for you!
Edited by skanda12 - 12 years ago
skanda12 thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#9

Originally posted by: riyya6

Riyya: My answers in blue below:
mansi šŸ‘šŸ¼...
I fail to understand one thing, a girl who sacrifice for her family by accepting to get married to Mughal, Jalal... how could she overlook the fact that no matter what happen she cannot return back .. I agree Jalal gave her 2 option but i would have been happy if she choose to stay with Jalal in her own term... I think the whole thing is a mockery now... Why
Yes, see how society has trapped both Jalal and Jodha. He genuinely gave her two choices to make, and she genuinely thought she had choices to make. (It's a different matter on whether these two had a miscommunication and thought the other one had already made the choice). But the actual fact was that society gave them both NO CHOICE at all! The Amer returning option just was not there! Neither for Jalal to send Jodha, nor for Jodha to take on her own!
see now Hyperwati stated clearly that she wont take jodha back, Jodha told cleary to Jalal she wants to go back...Jodha has become unwanted here... Hyperwati has a point there but why did not Jodha think of it earlier. I agree shes too broken n one after one but stilll...
More than anything else, I felt very bad that all this talk happened in an open sabha, and this Jodha's fate, her life was being decided by all and sundry other than herself! How horrible for the poor girl! In front of enemies like Maham she had to hear her mother rejecting her saying "You are not welcome back in Amer!"
Mansi on ur thoughts on Jodha falling for Jalal, i agree u have a point there. By saving her twice, Jalal will actually do what a husband needs to do for his Wife, Protect...😳... Jodha will start softening here, chances are there ...but my question is how will their love progress from here... Jodha wanted to go back, Mother dun want her, Jalal wanted to send her back to fulfill her wish...
if Jodha falls for jalal after that wont it be like forced... meaning she has no choice...
I really Hope Jalal falls for her 1st because of the mess they did on the going back to Ameer thing
This is where the value of that antaratma comes, I feel. The one that told Jodha "You started this enmity with your ghrna!". If Jodha herself gets the realisation that the antaratma was right, then she will be better disposed to change her behaviour. Along with that if Jalal also demonstrates his new side to her by saving her twice, the old feelings that Jodha had for Jalal may get replaced by a new look at him. In other words it is time for the glass vase to come out after being fully melted and reshaped!

Edited by skanda12 - 12 years ago
nandinidavid96 thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#10
Beautiful Post...I just loved the points you have put across are indeed logical. I dont know who will first fall in love, but I think after suicide track jalal will try to comfort her. He never hated her but reacted in his own way on jodhas actions. Its high time jodha should break her prejudices which jalal will reciprocate.


I want both of them to fall in love at the same time and it would be interesting to see how they behave in each others presence. Anyways Jalal does have some feelings for jodha which he never tries to figure out

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