For God's sake, what's going on?

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sashashyam

@sashashyam

Sparkler

+ 3

Posted: 12 years ago

#31

True, Mansi, and for me, the even more important point is that I admire the sharpness and freshness of your mind, even if I am not with you in much of what you feel. Not many can understand such an intellectual bond, but there it is!

As for me, I am not a fan of any actor or character, and so my reactions to them vary from time to time, as you would have noted.

Shyamala

Originally posted by: skanda12
Shyamala:

I think we have hit the one point where we disagree completely - in the way we perceive the characterisation-strength of the principal leads (i.e.Jodha and Jalal).

Of course, as I've mentioned elsewhere my crib is not with Jodha per se or Jalal per se, for it is always possible in any story to find reasons for why they are what they are. My crib is with the Creatives. I do not like the way they have shown either Jodha or Jalal and would have much preferred to see a story where the principal leads display more independence (conferring is one thing, but I see Jalal's "dependence" here ... and perception is a very subjective thing).

Given that our perceptions of what is happening to the leads is so different, it is no wonder then that the story's progress is analysed differently by us too. But the more the opinions the merrier the forum!

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deejagi

@deejagi

Rocker

+ 2

Posted: 12 years ago

#32

Originally posted by: elasingh
Frankly I have heard so many times that MA saved his life so why shouldnt he trust her? Fine but going by that account Amer lot also saved his life...Why is this fact neglected or respected so little by Jalal himself...

Jalal is said to be a very good judge of character but he cant judge the character of his near and dear ones? Sad it is...

Doesn't speak highly of a king who trusts someone blindly...This is a big mistake ...For the one sitting on throne is nobody's friend or enemy or relative...

Finally MA is not his mother ...

I loved the way BM talked to him and told him indirctly that Amer can pick up the sword against him also to save their honour ...Ofcourse both Jalal and Bharmal know the Amer doesnt stand a chance against Agra but that is not the point...The thing is they will fight to finish if the situation so demanded...

I loved Jalal's shamefaced look...There is still hope for him yet...

Firstly, Amer people saved Jalal's life becuse he was their emperor & their sister's husband not merely because he is Jalal. MA saved him many times, because he is Jalal. So MA scores high in this scale and jalal did acknoledge openly of Amer's princes role in saving his life.

@Red: Only the outsiders will be checked while entering presidents house not the President. That is how it works with ones near ones. You will not doubt them unless you have sufficient proof and cross verification. If some third person blames you for something you did and only your friend and your sister are aware of that fact (what you did), whom will you suspect first? your sister or your friend?

@Blue: She is more than his mother to him as she was the one who gave refugie to him when his mother deserted / orphaned him in the pretext walking in the footsteps of her husband. (she might have had valid reasons that Jala's life would have been at stake if she had carried him along etc, but still MA was the one who was the mother figure to Jalal when he wanted the warmth of his mother's love.

We has viewers kno about MA's crooked nature and her scheming against Jalal to give the throne to her son, but She is a kind mother Jalal.he is unaware of her poisonus mind.

Jaya

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diksha

@sweet_diksha

Rocker

Posted: 12 years ago

#33

agreed with u on both Jodha and Jalal. i m also tired of praising this Jalal who never uses his brain. once he has suspected Jodha big time, misbehaved her and her family, and just escaped from saying sorry publicly, still given next moment he again suspects her and starts shouting her. when he will learn from his mistakes? and then how can we expect Jodha to trust or respect him?

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deejagi

@deejagi

Rocker

+ 2

Posted: 12 years ago

#34

Originally posted by: sweet_diksha
agreed with u on both Jodha and Jalal. i m also tired of praising this Jalal who never uses his brain. once he has suspected Jodha big time, misbehaved her and her family, and just escaped from saying sorry publicly, still given next moment he again suspects her and starts shouting her. when he will learn from his mistakes? and then how can we expect Jodha to trust or respect him?

May be if Jalal fixes her sister Sukanya's marriage with a better groom and then my some explain her that in any case Ratan Singh was not a good person by heart and rule and Jalal faught with them only to justice to his people, Jodha might respect him a bit. May be she will learn these things only when she visits Amer to attend her sister's marriage (still angry ith Jalal). may be they will start interacting with each other without biting the other, only after that.

As with regard to Jala's anger, yaar you will show your anger only on your loved ones. When you can't express your love, you will yell at them. Does she ever allow him to complete his talk before harping in?????????

jaya

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diksha

@sweet_diksha

Rocker

Posted: 12 years ago

#35

Originally posted by: deejagi

May be if Jalal fixes her sister Sukanya's marriage with a better groom and then my some explain her that in any case Ratan Singh was not a good person by heart and rule and Jalal faught with them only to justice to his people, Jodha might respect him a bit. May be she will learn these things only when she visits Amer to attend her sister's marriage (still angry ith Jalal). may be they will start interacting with each other without biting the other, only after that.

As with regard to Jala's anger, yaar you will show your anger only on your loved ones. When you can't express your love, you will yell at them. Does she ever allow him to complete his talk before harping in?????????

jaya

why should she? has Jalal given her any reason anytime? from day one he is insulting her.

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Ela Singh

@elasingh

Stunner

+ 2

Posted: 12 years ago

#36

Originally posted by: deejagi

Firstly, Amer people saved Jalal's life becuse he was their emperor & their sister's husband not merely because he is Jalal. MA saved him many times, because he is Jalal. So MA scores high in this scale and jalal did acknoledge openly of Amer's princes role in saving his life.

@Red: Only the outsiders will be checked while entering presidents house not the President. That is how it works with ones near ones. You will not doubt them unless you have sufficient proof and cross verification. If some third person blames you for something you did and only your friend and your sister are aware of that fact (what you did), whom will you suspect first? your sister or your friend?

@Blue: She is more than his mother to him as she was the one who gave refugie to him when his mother deserted / orphaned him in the pretext walking in the footsteps of her husband. (she might have had valid reasons that Jala's life would have been at stake if she had carried him along etc, but still MA was the one who was the mother figure to Jalal when he wanted the warmth of his mother's love.

We has viewers kno about MA's crooked nature and her scheming against Jalal to give the throne to her son, but She is a kind mother Jalal.he is unaware of her poisonus mind.

Jaya

Dear MA saved his life only once (as shown in movie and serial) by taking an arrow on herself...BK was the real pillar of strength for him and that didn't stop Jalal from getting rid of him and neither did real Jalal hesitated getting rid of BK and Adham and MA as this Jalal does...

If I had to choose between my sister and my friend,🤣 I would definately not jump to conclusion that my friend is wrong...I will think carefully before taking a decision...as friends are no less important and this is why I am angry with Jalal...you see I am not asking him to believe Jodha but to think carefully and not jump to conclusions just to prove his love for his so called mother...He is a big boy now...😆

MA is more like a mother to him ...That is taking a very simplistic view...especially when the real mother is also there and loves him just as much...The loyalty is usually torn between these two...

The real Jalal had freed himself pretty soon from MA's influence...

You see EK is using her favourate tricks of saas bahu in this serial and this is what I oppose...She wants Jalal to be a non thinking person and someone who dances on the tune of his mom😆 (nakali)..

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Mansi

@skanda12

Sparkler

+ 3

Posted: 12 years ago

#37

@All: I notice there's a lively discussion on this thread about Jalal and whether he should or should not be so dependent on Maham/Ruq etc.

One of the points I want to throw up here for consideration is that we are seeing this serial from the point in the story where Jalal is about 22 years old, and now coming into his own.

Yes we have to factor in the knowledge that in his early years he was indeed close to Ruq/Maham etc for reasons which we all know well. But the important fact we may all have to see is whether he is now showing readiness to move on in life or whether he is staying tied to the ties of the past.

Even in our own lives, we are all always going through transitions. We make new friends, lose old ones, make changes in our careers, in our personal lives and we lose the old networks we had while we try to create new networks that serve us better for the evolved people we become with every passing phase of life.

Just because Jalal had these old support systems such as mahamanga and Ruq does not mean that he needs to keep on keeping them in that same slot in his life. His relationship with these people could change depending on how he is changing as a person.

Notice how when Bairam Khan started exceeding his brief, it took Jalal a bit of heart-churn but then he actually wore his war garb and even contemplated war on Bairam, till bairam himself surrendered and gave up the antagonism.

What is to prevent Jalal feeling the same way about maham? Or even Ruq? It all depends on how circumstances play out and how these previously supportive people are freshly seen by jalal in the context of changing circumstances. The same Ruq who was till yesterday a best friend could turn into a lukewarm pal or even an enemy depending on how the future circumstances play out and what her role in these could be.

I am not trying to say Jalal will easily throw off Ruq/Maham or he would stick with them come what may. he may alter his relationship levels with them over time and events, which may make these people less important in his life, even if he continues to respect the old feelings he had for them once.

This brings us to questions like:

1. Will Jalal throw over Ruq when he falls in love with Jodha?

2. Will Jalal throw over Maham when he discovers a new love for his own mother hamida?

The answer could be: he doesn't have to throw over anybody (unless he absolutely wants to) but he may decide to change the quality of relationships he has with these people. At the same time for old time's sake he may still respect the fact that at one time these people were his close ones.

In a mature man I would like to see

a. A respect for the ones who were close to him once

b. A readiness to open up to new close ones for the future who may bet better served to help him in the next phase of life

c. An ability to handle the discomforts/jealousies that the old friends may have when he changes allegiances to new friends

Edited by skanda12 - 12 years ago

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Ela Singh

@elasingh

Stunner

+ 2

Posted: 12 years ago

#38

Skanda some where down the line I feel that Jodha's life has become very cheap for Jalal...Ruku provoked him that she wants Jodha punished...toh usne zinda jalane ka order pass kar diya...with one sentence from Ruku he frees her, again when Jodha raises her suspicion abt Maham in today's episode again he shouts that he will punish her...

Kya Jodha bilkul faltu hai? Doesn't she deserve any dignity from him?

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Mansi

@skanda12

Sparkler

+ 3

Posted: 12 years ago

#39

Originally posted by: elasingh
Skanda some where down the line I feel that Jodha's life has become very cheap for Jalal...Ruku provoked him that she wants Jodha punished...toh usne zinda jalane ka order pass kar diya...with one sentence from Ruku he frees her, again when Jodha raises her suspicion abt Maham in today's episode again he shouts that he will punish her...

Kya Jodha bilkul faltu hai? Doesn't she deserve any dignity from him?

Yes, one explanation could be that he is valuing Jodha's life too less.

But another explanation could also be the exact opposite, he may be valuing Jodha too much also.

What I mean is this: only because he values Jodha's opinion so much that he is so affected by her hatred for him. And therefore when he has to react to her he goes to extremes of punishing her etc.

If he was not so deeply affected by what Jodha thinks of him, he would not care if she had a bad opinion of him or not! And he would not so vehemently seek revenge or be so ready to take Ruq's instigations seriously.

See when we hate someone, we do get irritated by them. But when we like someone, but that someone hates us, then our irritation is doubled because we feel "We are secretly liking them, but they are hating us so much!" It becomes even more troubling ...

I feel Jalal is in this second category! That's why, I feel he is not just reacting to Jodha, he is over-reacting!

Edited by skanda12 - 12 years ago

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Ela Singh

@elasingh

Stunner

+ 2

Posted: 12 years ago

#40

Originally posted by: skanda12

Yes, one explanation could be that he is valuing Jodha's life too less.

But another explanation could also be the exact opposite, he may be valuing Jodha too much also.

What I mean is this: only because he values Jodha's opinion so much that he is so affected by her hatred for him. And therefore when he has to react to her he goes to extremes of punishing her etc.

If he was not so deeply affected by what Jodha thinks of him, he would not care if she had a bad opinion of him or not! And he would not so vehemently seek revenge or be so ready to take Ruq's instigations seriously.

See when we hate someone, we do get irritated by them. But when we like someone, but that someone hates us, then our irritation is doubled because we feel "We are secretly liking them, but they are hating us so much!" It becomes even more troubling ...

I feel Jalal is in this second category! That's why, I feel he is not just reacting to Jodha, he is over-reacting!

May be it is easy to say that he values Jodha too much becoz we know Jodha Akbar story...Wouldnot be so easy if it was pure fiction...Anyway thanks for saying that he values her...

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