Jodha Akbar 49: Duel of wills - Page 5

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sashashyam thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#41
Dear Moontide (what else are you, with a hint of all the spices of God's own country, and not just mint?)

I waited an hour, after first laughing myself to tears over this - which undoubtedly spared me a good bit of GenTeal drops for the disobliging nayan- but since you have not returned, and another claimant is breathing down my neck for the laptop, here goes.

Basically, my response is summed up in one question.Where were you all these weeks after June 30? If you had exerted yourself to similar effect - and as a fellow worshipper at the shrine of the immortal Plum, you could not have failed to do so - think of how much fun we could have had together!

You must have seen my Mughal-e-Azam theory in my last but one post; I did not really think the CVs would go for it,but it would have been fun, and I am glad at least you picked up that ball and ran with it.

The dry run theory for the Anarkali chundiyaana is priceless, except that this lot of masons would have passed on to the Great House of the Masonic (not Freemasons, be it noted) Fraternity in the hereafter by the time Sheku arrived and grew to the least possible age of having lafdas with baandis (Charles II of England probably holds the record of having a kid when he was just 15)šŸ˜‰. Perhaps they would have passed on this esoteric expertise to their offspring, just in case the Shahenshah were to need it in his later years?

the Jalal-Jodha-Moti-Abdul permutation would have drawn a small smile of approval from the Master himself, though a discreet one, for he was notoriously reticent in the matter of detailing assorted impulses in the solar plexus, or indeed anywhere else. .

Finally, as for the proper/prescribed position for the wallee, they should have had manual written out neatly on one of those silken scrolls, to be read out in due and proper form before the exercise began. Songs should not be part of it - the lugubrious Motibai looks besuri, and then it would cruel and unusual punishment for the masons as well!šŸ˜‰

The economy angle would not have entered into the calculations, as it would hardly have been a bulk exercise with the built in economies of scale!

As for the folly of that whole Corpse in the Kitchen complete with that impeccably penned epistle on a fancy piece of fabric, do go back and see my Questions of the Day in that post. It was beyond ridiculous, and I would, like you, prefer to assume that Jalal had the brains to look thru it. But what of Jodha? What were her Grandmaster (there is no feminine for this in chess) quality grey cells doing?

Once again, thanks for brightening up my morning.

Affectionately,

Shyamala

Originally posted by: Moontide

Dear Shyamala (plain vanilla with a hint of mint),


Thank God the eye has recovered enough to churn out two awesomes within less than 24 hrs 😃

Now to business...

I will definitely put forward my two ashrafi/mohar bit on the scenario at hand.

But before I proceed, and may be add a fresh reply there, I want to touch upon l'affaire Farman.
As one, whose impressionable years were shaped by that Badshah amongst Butlers..a cert J and the investigative spirit nurtured by the likes of the Woosters and the Psmiths, I in this particular affaire have a few Qs. It has disturbed me since as a freshman out of cradle I had lain first eyes on Akbar, who was in his mature years then and a great deal GREAT..err than his two subsequent versions.

Its a Q re this particular deewar mein chunwana process.

My first ask is, was there a set pattern/norm/adab/tehzeeb/niyam for taking position when getting masoned in?

Q2. Was there a strict masonistic code for building this wall around a live being (mostly women it seems during Akbar's reign)?

I will clarify my asks later in this post. First, my views...

See, it is obvious from all intents and purposes that Jalal was using Motibai's (some how calling her plain Moti gives me visions of Bharti Singh) case as an Adham sent chance for honing and perfecting his walling up blueprint. He, with his doorandeshi was laying the foundations so to speak for ensuring a far more exhalted and eternal place in folklore and Bollywood history for himself. He was preparing well and in advance for the Fairy-tale of Shekhu and Anarkali.
Having grown up on the road...he knew his masons would find it much easier to mask in that secret passage within the walls if they had prior experience of the whole thing.

For a passage there would have been for sure, had Jodha not head butted the process mid way. I'm sure Jalal, the keeper of an entire Harem is not that unaware to Adham's obsessions. He could not have missed out on his muh-bola big bro's heavy pantings every time Motibai was so much as mentioned. Someone so attuned and alert to the surroundings as he, is bound to have noticed the saucer transformation and directional inclination of his bro's eyes during his Shaadi with Jodha.

Also as an astute twenty year old, he would have known, Motibai having sworn on Jodha's head would not lie, not to mention the laughable letter that in the pretext of saving her honour gives her away in the most significant terms possible. Also a shepherd/commoner like the dead man in question being literate and in possession of fine stationery of such silken quality would have rankled that much touted Brain.

So no, Jalal was not for a moment deceived by Mahamanga's elaborate ruse.
But he perceived it as a chance! A gem of an opportunity to finally cause that Break-up between Jodha and her Moti. For every time these two hugged as they did at the slightest pretext, Jalal would suffer a sensation of pinpricks in a region Nor-easterly to his solar plexus. The feeling would soon turn into a full blown deep depression sending rushes of bloods to his famous head which inevitably led his feet to Jodha followed by subsequent thunderstorms with much lightning and teeth gnashing thrown in. And after having traded threats he would come back to his chambers each time feeling more defeated and pinprickly than before.

Tale of how Jodha had diffused a burning Motibai never sat well with him. Then much to Jalal's chargin Motibai accompanied her to Agra, tending to her every need and sharing her bedchambers... rights that should rightfully have been his, Jodha's Shohar Jalal's. Yet he was turned into a mere helpless looker on while Motibai and Jodha's bond grew stronger. Then on the day of judgement, Jodha coming out of Purdah only for Motibai's sake and hugging her and making her swear on her head was perhaps the proverbial last straw.

So Jalal decided to wall his enemy in.

Now you may ask why would he then have the passage built?
Well it was his first opportunity of finding out what looked good on the drawing board would turn out well in actuality when history and Anarkali called.

Secondly, he wanted Motibai out of Agra and into the charms of Abdul (I know I'm breaking a few hearts here. But truth must be told). Knowing Motibai's caring nature, Jalal was confident she would flip for the witty, smart but differently abled Abdul. Also when trading secrets about his attraction for Jodha, he had come to know of the layout of the region Nor-easterly to Abdul's solar plexus. He knew an object throbbed therein for Motibai.

Thirdly and most importantly, he did not want Jodha to pine away the rest of her life for her beloved Moti. The walled in section, had it actually contained Motibai's remains, would have become some kind of memorial for Jodha to cry buckets on for the next few decades and Jalal would have had no chance of settling the matter of the pinpricks ever. History would then never be made. But Jalal with his devilish cunning intended to, on a later date make an elaborate exhibition of team Motibai-Abdul in front of Jodha. Jalal believed, seeing Motibai transferring allegiance to Abdul would make Jodha tear up in all sense. He, Jalal would then act the perfect Baba Mustafa and sew her torn parts into a whole and win her over permanently.

So there!

Now coming back to my questions.

1. was there a set pattern/norm/adab/tehzeeb/niyam for taking position when getting masoned in?

I mean, First Motibai and then Anarkali both stood in the middle of the under construction wall like a centre piece, one singing love peons the other murmuring her last apologies to Jodha in very similar fashion. I was wondering, why stand? Especially when the masons have already taken their measurements and commenced construction. Would not sitting down save energy and be a lot less tiresome? Also why entertain the people burying you alive by songs and orations? Have to admit, the mind boggles!!

2. Was there a strict masonistic code for building this wall around a live being (mostly women it seems during Akbar's reign)?

See in both instances you had the Masons going for a complex technique of construction. I must say I have seen a few walls being built during my life and it has always been a process of brick laying that starts ground upwards and continues thus. But Both with Motibai and Anarkali I have found, they would construct the front facade up till neck level then go to the top and start moving downwards till only one brick breath of distance remains between the ascending and descending sections. That brick width would level exactly with the teared up hapless eyes of the walled in. then they would commence work from two sides and the last brick would be placed right in front of those eyes shutting out lookers on's view completely.

This I find a very intriguing technique of construction. Something that has been lost to the ravels of time. Also I have always wondered, when did they construct the roof? I mean four walls make a minar all right. But to stuff the light out of someone...as beautifully and eloquently described by Mahamanga...you would need to close the hatch too, wouldn't you? So did they use the rod and concrete theme of modern architecture or had wooden beams overlain with tiles or what other technique?
Must say it was a lot of money used for puffing out one life.

Wouldn't it have been much economic to have a reference wall like the main Prison boundary or something. Make the wallee stand in front..chains and all. Then have the wallers construct left right and front with slanting sections meeting the reference wall at the back?

Leaving you to ponder...and threatening to come back again

Love,

Moontide šŸ˜‰

sashashyam thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#42
Dear Shalmali,

You have such an unusual and lovely name that I prefer it whole.

I am very pleased that you liked this post.

Yes, I can agree with all of the points below,about the firman part, and even more so with your take on the sword fight, where we are on the same page except for the context (and that is not so important). Also on difference in intent and tone between this one and the one in the film. There it was basically flirtatious and seductive, here it was fierce and no holds barred - I winced every time the sword whizzed at what looked like an inch away from one or the other - exercise in oneupmanship, as I had noted.

But it mirrored and foretold the quality of the relationship they will eventually share. It will not be sedate and affectionate. It will be turbulent and passionate, and will blot out,for each of them. everything and everyone in the whole of their world but the other, the beloved. Le grand amour, in short, that very rare bond between two persons who are both perfect halves of a whole. But that is a long way off yet, which is the real fun of this tale.

Yes, Paridhi was very good in the firman scene. There was a marvellous flash of smug certainty and subdued triumph just as he is looking down at the firman - Gotcha! it said unmistakably, and Jalal caught it as he looked up. Which is what made him tear up the firman, to give her a fright and wipe that smugness off her face. And it did so wipe it off.

Well, if Jodha is biding her time, so be it, but while she is doing it, it would not have hurt to tell Mahaam that this is her palace and would she please leave. No, Shalmali, it looked very silly, the way she listened to all that muck. Ruqaiya, even with all her skeletons in assorted closets, would, under even slightly similar circumstances, have thrown one of those heavy vases at Mahaam. All that Jodha had to throw was one sharp sentence Aap isi waqt.tashreef le ja sakti hain.

Shyamala

Originally posted by: shal1983


phewww!! i finally got the chance to complete my post. 😲

So here is the rest of it -

2) I absolutely agree with you regarding the thoughts going through Jalal and Jodha's mind during that staring contest of about 6 minutes or so... Yes, Jalal is trying to find an opening to the person that Jodha is. Ofcourse, he thinks its only so that he could use it against her, but really, that is such a load of bull crap. He is totally intrigued by her on a much more personal level. He wants to unlock the mystery that is Jodha. He wants to find out why he reacts to her so differently than the rest, even ruqaiya. And he admires her courage and her beauty and her zest for life every step of the way. Gosh, i am analysing so much.. i really should get a life, shouldnyt i?? About Jodha, she is really trying hard to block jalal out of the opening he desires. And she is kind if lost, both at it and for him. Oh, i love those two and the story that is unfolding...

For me, the swordfight didnt seem so out of place. Isnt it possible that Jodha was just truly practising and Jalal just happened to be upon her? She, after all, quite prides herself on haing remarkable swordmanship skills and even in amber, was always practising to hone those skills. But what transpired later was so remarkable. Both were out to draw blood, and the fight was different in its elemnt than the one in the movie Jodha-akbar where it was light and flirtatious. It seemed to depict their current state of minds. The one up-manship and their skills were both amazing. The underlying conversation that they had was amazing too. For me, the story is developing quite nicely and i am so totally in love with it.

I read the Farmaan incident the following way - "She grabbed his hand in the almost desperate way because she so no other way to save her motibai. It was involuntary and a surprise to herself that she would go so far as to actually plead with him for something, but she realized in that very moment that the reason she did so is that now, she accepts him to have the humanly emotions like compassion that would allow him to recognise the pleading in her voice and respond it, while previously she would never attribute to the fact that he infact, is also human and allows for such weaknesses.

For her part, the moment Jalal made her realize what she had inadvertently done, she shies away and loses her hold on that hand. The expressions paridhi emotes in that one moment are so amazing in conveying to us that very thing, and Rajat too, for that matter. Jalal doesnt allow her to shy away in his particularly bold fashion and pulls her towards him to make her realise all the more just how close she has come, even without wanting it. This silent battle between them is what made the scene click for me."

Joke of the day - Lol that made me laugh. Truly, they are butchering the Ruqaiya character left, right and centre and making her out to be a regular TV vamp.

Loved your analysis as per usual.

Lots of love,

Shal.

P.S - a reply to your reply at bold -

Edited by sashashyam - 12 years ago

swtngl thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#43
My bad 😳 I missed that fact that he left it (the farman) on the table. I agree that Jodha should given a stronger comeback to Maham. Jodha is starting to get comfortable in her susral now. The fact she is practicing sword fighting now, she is starting to feel at home. So I believe that next time Maham acts like that, Jodha will have a stronger comeback and put her in her place. 😊.
Also what did you think of Jalal's comment in the precap about whether dil ya dimaag wins?
To me it seems like it has to do with Jodha answers to Jalal's question about why she didn't ask for his sar or freedom or wealth. It might be about who will win from Jodha thinking with her heart vs Jalal with his brain?

Navi

Originally posted by: sashashyam

Thank you so much for such a thoughtful and well-considered response to my post, and of course also for liking it.

I still think Jodha should have shown Mahaam where she got off. She might have put Ruqaiya at a disadvantage over the Adhan-harem affair, but no way would she dare to talk to her as she did to Jodha today. If Jodha wanted to snub her by indirectly indicating that she is just a dasi - Ruqaiya once does the openly - why does she listen to all this muck from a dasi? Do queens do that? It looked as though all her retaliatory powers were used up in that one oblique comment about dasis, and then she was like a defanged snake.

Of the women Jodha went to for help, one was Hamida Banu's right hand woman, and another was Hamida Banu herself, but I do not know who the third one was.

The farman is with Jodha, not Jalal. Remember the scene when he brings it back, talks of ahduir jaankaari gunaah hai (about the Hindu boy) and then holds her right upper arm so tight that he leaves a mark? He brings the farman with him then, saying that he does not take back what he has once given, and she does not dare send it back after that.

Your take on the arm grabbing scene is perfect. Rajat is really a master of facial nuance. Amazing in one so young.

I do not know why I left little Rahim, whom I adore, having delighted in his dohas in praise of Lord Krishna when I was at school. Perhaps I was just tired and it slipped my mind. It was a very clever way of re-introducing the farman.

Shyamala B.Cowsik

sashashyam thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#44
Suvi dear,

Thanks a lot for liking this so much; but then you are always so sweet!

Do take a look at the whole of my exchanges with Shalmali above. I have a very different take on Jodha's handling of Mahaam on Friday.But I do agree that it was interesting, her asserting, for the first time, her status as a rani,

Yes, the duel was superb, and I winced every time one or the other's sword seemed to come within an inch of the other, Beautiful, and as far removed from the Sujamal dandiya with Suryabhan as could be imagined.

No, I am not out of the woods as yet, but I am strictly avoiding late nights, and I hope to be better soon. Take care, my dear.

Shyamala Aunty

Originally posted by: Super Kool

Thanks for the analysis aunty...šŸ‘šŸ‘šŸ‘


Most of us are gaga over jalal- jodha scene...we do need a bucket of water to regain consciousness...šŸ˜‰šŸ˜‰

Hand holding...she held shensha because he was her only hope...an act of desperation...well, which turned out to be a dream sequence for 'gaga over JA gang'...

Yesterday's confrontation of maham and jodha was very good...I really liked how jodha not so subtly pointed out...she is begum and maham is a dasi...Also, it was the first time I saw jodha acknowledging her malika status and rubbing it at somene's face...

Be it Abdul or zaheer...jalal has also gone to extremes to save his loyalists...same is the case with jodha..but, these two are engrossed in ticking the negative column...šŸ˜†

Rajat and paridhi were brilliant in sword sequence...The sword fight was all about two fierce individuals giving vent to their anger, confusion, frustration and what not...I prefer it that way...no mercy on either side...

Joke of the day- šŸ˜†actually...

I hope you are absolutely fit and doing well...take care...😊

sashashyam thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#45
My dear, I am glad you are pleased, but what you said there was spot on and it needed to be referenced!

No, I do not agree with you about Jodha; please see my exchanges with Shalmali above, there is a good girl! It was not my idea of a tit for tat!

Shyamala Aunty

Originally posted by: doyelpakhi

Wow Shyamala Aunty! šŸ¤—

You mentioned me in your post !!! I am flattered! 😳😳

I agree to most of your points except that MahaManga part... I felt Jodha behaved appropriately with MA...she gave a tit for tat reply to MA's taunts and yet did not stoop as low as MA herself.

sashashyam thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#46
Thank you, Tara, and at last there is someone who feels the same as I do about Jodha! And about what Jalal could reasonably be expected to do about l'affaire Motibai as well.

I agree completely with you about the firman part, except for what to my mind was the reason why Jalal tears it up, instead of just discarding it.

As I noted to Shalmali above - you might be interested in looking thru that set of exchanges of views between us - there was a marvellous flash of smug certainty and subdued triumph on Jodha's face just as Jalal is looking down at the firman.I paused that frame and watched it carefully. Gotcha! it said unmistakably, and Jalal caught it as he looked up. Which is what made him tear up the firman, to give her a fright and wipe that smugness off her face. And it did so wipe it off.

Shyamala B.Cowsik

Originally posted by: tara_211

Firstly, Maham and Jodha ... That is indeed true...Maham was OTT in that scene and to add to it..Jodha too was being portrayed as the TOO helpless lady. It was more of a evil saas and bechaari bahu convo...! But to me, Jodha answering back to Maham in yesterdays episode was a bit of saving grace. Maybe they wanted to show Jodha wasn't in a state of thinking of reciprocating to what Maham was blabbering...but it all became too heavy...Maham could hv been more classy while talking and the scene could hv been balanced.

I wont say much on Ruqaiya...coz she too has no self respect left in her...she is just an irritating boss of the harem now...tht too unworthy of it! She is more of Bakwaas than being Khaas now!

Secondly regarding the hand holding scene...I agree that there wasn't romance...and there is actually no romance between JA as they are still not in LOUVE...but Jodha stopping Jalal with the authority was more of her portrayal of the right she carries as a begum and with that farman..Incase Jalal had rejected tht farman...Jodha would have sat and argued with him definitely...But his acceptance dint need that. The farman tearing was more of a closing the deal and this farman is utilized type thing...Jodha holding him back was for the verbal confirmation she awaited from him!

Thridly, no way Jalal getting down to the roots of the moti adham case would hv been worth it...Its Jodhas responsibility...She is suppose to figure out why her friend has been insulted to this level..and put the truth across Jalal. The issue here is...will this ever be solved...Will Jodha decide to divulge further into the matter ...or will the makers just let it go. I am actually looking forward to seeing complete tracks rather than the ones we are being shown...there needs to be an end to this moti adham thing...maybe not so early...but soon...probably..once adham comes back he again tries to do the same and is caught..!

Lastly...The sword fight...I dunno but I am still unable to compare it to the one in the movie. The one in the movie was in a complete different scenario...and its absolutely different in the show. Yes maybe the placement is very off ...but then again...i don't see wht other preps they could have shown before Jodha strted practicing it. And this had to cum in soon..Jodha is married and is gonna stay there forever...She is gonna practice it regularly to remain a pro at it...And Jalal had to witness it. Its while staying together they are gonna realize what the other is capabale of anf this was one of it.

sashashyam thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#47
Apurva my dear girl,

Thanks a lot for liking this post.

You must not be cross with me, just as Chahat was once for the same reason. As Rose has stated so sweetly in my defence, I am suffering from a bad eye infection and cannot do late night posts any more. I had mentioned this clearly in my closing thank you comments on the Monday episode. I did try and cover some of the comments yesterday during the day, and now as well, but one has other commitments during the day, and I have already spent too much time on this thread as it is. It is an addiction that is difficult to shake off!

So I do try, and I will make it a point to cover yours, but you must be a good girl and an understanding one. You and I are mostly on the same page on most things, so I do not have to argue with you at length, but I do read all your posts very carefully, rest assured of that!

Even after I have recovered fully, and if I restart doing daily posts, there is NO way I would be able to respond to each of the comments. That would mean 6 hours a day for Jodha Akbar!!

Take care, my dear, and don't fret!

Affectionatel,

Shyamala Aunty

Originally posted by: ApurvaLovesARVI

Wonderful!!! Aunty!

It was Written very Well!
*You did not reply me in the Previous posts..!!!

sashashyam thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#48
Thank you, dear Ritzi.

Shyamala B.Cowsik

Originally posted by: itsRitzi

amazing analysis!1


u r right the sword fight was put in in hurry n jest !

but apart from tat i really liked the setting choreography unlike film it was ore agrressive n interesting specially jalal ka curious n interesting n filtatious looks n jodha ka angry look loved there small talk!

N tat farman one was god too me too tght jodha will come to knw abt tat hindu boy truth tat shahenshah isnt tat kuroor as she thinks

i THik jodha will soon rebel against mahaam once she sees the kartooot of agaam khan

sashashyam thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#49
Rose, sweetheart, thank you for stepping up to the plate for me, and so nearly too! šŸ¤— Do also see my reply to Apurva above.

Shyamala Aunty

Originally posted by: Autumn_Rose


She is not well. Plus, it is hard to reply to every post..!



Originally posted by: ApurvaLovesARVI

Wonderful!!! Aunty!

It was Written very Well!
*You did not reply me in the Previous posts..!!!

sashashyam thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#50
Ela my dear,

Thank you fro liking this post. It is a great relief to have someone who is so much on the same page as I am about all this! Thank you for that as well!

Your last para is very intriguing. It would be fascinating if that comes thru, let us see.

Shyamala

Originally posted by: elasingh

Fantastic post once again Shyamala...


The episode was good...and Jodha properly humbled ,both by Jalal and Maham...

Jalal is one who never misses a chance...hence he caught hold of her but I see no romantic involvement from his side...All i see is desire and I think Maham and Ruku are right when they say that if Jalal got her even once ,he will forget her soon...The relationship is at that stage...right now..

I wish Jodha has stood up to Maham first time ever...now she cant stop her and I fear she will turn out to be typical Ekta heroine who take all kinds of shit from their MIL.

Yes during sword fight scene Jalal is looking for an opening from her and he is deliberately being sensuous...

My guess is out of these two Jodha will fall in love first and realise it and probably confess it too...I dread this scenario for her sake...For it is a battle between Jalal's ego and Jodha's pride.






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