Jodha Akbar 49: Duel of wills - Page 4

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ashpat thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#31

Originally posted by: tara_211

Firstly, Maham and Jodha ... That is indeed true...Maham was OTT in that scene and to add to it..Jodha too was being portrayed as the TOO helpless lady. It was more of a evil saas and bechaari bahu convo...! But to me, Jodha answering back to Maham in yesterdays episode was a bit of saving grace. Maybe they wanted to show Jodha wasn't in a state of thinking of reciprocating to what Maham was blabbering...but it all became too heavy...Maham could hv been more classy while talking and the scene could hv been balanced.

I wont say much on Ruqaiya...coz she too has no self respect left in her...she is just an irritating boss of the harem now...tht too unworthy of it! She is more of Bakwaas than being Khaas now!

Secondly regarding the hand holding scene...I agree that there wasn't romance...and there is actually no romance between JA as they are still not in LOUVE...but Jodha stopping Jalal with the authority was more of her portrayal of the right she carries as a begum and with that farman..Incase Jalal had rejected tht farman...Jodha would have sat and argued with him definitely...But his acceptance dint need that. The farman tearing was more of a closing the deal and this farman is utilized type thing...Jodha holding him back was for the verbal confirmation she awaited from him!

Thridly, no way Jalal getting down to the roots of the moti adham case would hv been worth it...Its Jodhas responsibility...She is suppose to figure out why her friend has been insulted to this level..and put the truth across Jalal. The issue here is...will this ever be solved...Will Jodha decide to divulge further into the matter ...or will the makers just let it go. I am actually looking forward to seeing complete tracks rather than the ones we are being shown...there needs to be an end to this moti adham thing...maybe not so early...but soon...probably..once adham comes back he again tries to do the same and is caught..!

Lastly...The sword fight...I dunno but I am still unable to compare it to the one in the movie. The one in the movie was in a complete different scenario...and its absolutely different in the show. Yes maybe the placement is very off ...but then again...i don't see wht other preps they could have shown before Jodha strted practicing it. And this had to cum in soon..Jodha is married and is gonna stay there forever...She is gonna practice it regularly to remain a pro at it...And Jalal had to witness it. Its while staying together they are gonna realize what the other is capabale of anf this was one of it.



the bold part- that was really good point- i did not really think from that perspective



ginco thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#32
Shymala Aunty ,


This is what i wait for ... a meticulous and thought capturing post... i would let u on in a secret today.. after reading your posts i stopped watching the repeats as i used to do earlier ... now i wait for your post n then go about watching them all over again... wat a satisfaction it brings..

I would also like to point out tht i have always been fascinated by history ... but it is not always easy to understand wat lies when there is a complex web of emotions tht a king n queen bring together with them in a form of a saga... n u help me with the same ...

I completely agree with :-

QUOTE{{ ---- My take is that rather than doing something as commonplace as flirting, Jalal is angling for an opening to the person he senses that she is, even while making a subtle, sensuous attempt to disorient her by his physical nearness. Jodha is trying equally hard not to give him that opening, and also to shut her senses to the closeness of this very attractive man, and whatever hitherto unknown sensations that stirs up... }} QUOTE


see here as far as jala was concerned i was quite sure tht he felt the above..however i was confused as to why jodha was nto angry about losing to jalal .. because she was the challenger (read :attacker ) but then again u cleared it ... i was sure somehow tht jodha did nto give any such expression tht she was feeling nervous because of jalal's presence .. or lets stay proximity .. she has experienced it before n felt nothing .. but wat changed today ??? remains a mystery ...


Also both MA and ruqu are insecure because of jodha ...or lets call it that they r apprehensive .. but the only difference is tht MA chose to confront jodha very wildly regarding tht n ruqu ...alas has a head full of Cr*p as per CV's so she just comes in and damkofyies almost everyone in the show n gives the same treatment to jodha...

The only thing tht i was concerned about was did MA choose to make a personal attack on jodha after jodha gave her back the vile of poison... ( it is shame tht jodha did listen to ,... n why was she talking about saamaan... completely an off answer to wat MA was pointing to ... she was comparing her ... n jodha should have let her tht it is nto her guroor it is her self -respect tht she is showing off ) .. i was like samaan ko chooodo jodha swabhimaan ki baat karo ...

and how does MA know tht jalal has not had her (jodha) ... n wat did she mean tht she would wait for jalal to do away with jodha first n then MA would start her song... i thought tht was pure insult n nothing else for jodha from MA ... n even if jo was supposed to listen to those as per the script .. ther should have been an apt answer...i get confused when jodha picks up a smaj seva ka topic n starts lectorofying instead of saying something apt n to the point ...

Rest , about ruqaiya... iam sure tht gal playing this character is sry to have accepted this role ...i just feel tht CV's r just adjusting her in the story n showing scenes to keep her in the plot otherwise no need for her ...n tht is why she has been shown plotting with jalal n become his accomplice .. uske scenes toh bas yuhi daal diye hai n they contradict with her character sketch n the ruqlal scenes shown previously ... 😉 i feel sorry for her as she is the thrid wheel for now n would be left with nothing when this love story begins ...

Cheers
Kashi




Edited by ginco - 12 years ago
ashpat thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#33

Originally posted by: sashashyam

Ok, folks, enough of mooning and sighing about the duel between our Odd Couple, and get your heartbeats back to normal. A cold water splash for those young ladies who had, as per their posts, fainted, not just to to revive them, but to shake the visions of themselves as Jodha out of their minds!! 😉

There were in fact 2 duels yesterday between Jodha and Jalal , and both were as much of the minds and the wills of the contestants as of their swords. Between them, they bookended an episode which had little else of note. Let us first dispose of the odds and ends.

The ugly tirade against Jodha by a shellshocked Mahaam Anga, fuelle d by both escalating fear and by jealousy, was unbelievably vicious. I could not believe that this woman would have the gall to address a Shahi Begum in such terms, to mock and deride her so harshly. It must be a corollary of her assumption that Jodha has no hold on Jalal at all but the pull of the unattained, and that this too will soon pass, and then there is the visceral hatred she feels for all Hindus - witness how she recoils in distaste when Motibai touches her.

So far, Mahaam Anga's negativity towards Jodha has been oblique, and she maintained the surface proprieties, even if halfheartedly. But this time, the gloves were well and truly off, and all the bile in her for Jodha came pouring out in one vile stream of abuse.

What I could not digest was Jodha's standing there and listening to the harridan go on and on and on spouting venom, when all she had to do was to order her out in one sharp sentence. Mahaam Anga cannot enter Jodha's quarters uninvited and at will, and Jodha should have made that clear at once. It was bad enough that Jodha's dasis scurried out the day before when Mahaam Anga ordered them out, without getting any confirmation from their mistress. If Mahaam had tried to pull any such stunt with Ruqaiya, she would have been told off in no uncertain terms.

Today, I was startled and dismayed to see Jodha getting up to greet the old witch. What for? Ruqaiya never does so, and Jodha is as much of a Begum as Ruqaiya is. She should have got the upper hand right at the beginning by staying seated, and then sending Mahaam packing after the first 2 sentences.

As Ela noted, Jodha seems to reserve her pride and her snubs only for her patidev. I felt like shaking her yesterday, to try and drill some real shahi guroor into her head. 😡

The other faltu scene was of Ruqaiya at the harem. There should be a Defend Ruqaiya Forum to agitate against the wanton degradation of the character of Akbar's Empress-in-chief, now reduced to a shallow, harem-obsessed, mindless female. Smilie must be glad she was replaced before having to play this plastic creature. If Jalal could survive 100 days, not to speak of 100 nights with this female, he deserves a medal as big as a soup plate!😉

Now on to the real masala.

The Fencing Bout: Yes, yes, it was mindblowing, terrific, out of the world, rocking, and whatever else any of you wants. .😉

But, the fact remains, as doyelpakhi has pointed out elsewhere, that the context was totally unconvincing. It was as if the CVs has decided that the fencing match had to be copied from the film, and that yesterday was the day to shove it in, and so they shoved it in willy nilly, and plausibility be damned.

So we had Jodha, who had apparently thoughtfully carted her sword and the white fencing attire to Agra, suddenly get up one fine morning and decide to shed her ultra heavy daily Christmas tree getup for the aforesaid whites, and do a spot of fencing practice right next to the Shahenshahs quarters. Why the face veil, then, when the bindi is a dead giveaway? In fact, she could easily have been challenged, or even attacked, by some watchful guard, who would rightly have taken her for an armed intruder. The whole thing looked like a hastily assembled patchwork, quite unlike in the film, where the context had been worked out perfectly.

The duel itself, on the contrary, was wonderfully choreographed and superbly executed by both the actors. Paridhi in particular seemed to have put her training in fencing to good use, and matched the more experienced Rajat every step of the way. Jodha must be physically very strong for a relatively small made woman if she can push the much heavier Jalal back so hard, even allowing for the surprise element! - I agree with you. Rajat is awesome but Paridhi really surprised me with fencing skills

The duel in the film was more lighthearted and flirtatious, for there was no such backlog of overt animosity between them there. Whereas here it is an extension of their daily bouts of angry one-upmanship, and it seems at times as if Jodha would really like to land him a deadly blow.

One can of course read anything one wants into their eyes, especially hers, in that long moment when they stare at each other from 6 inches away (kudos to the actors who manage that without going cross-eyed, and still maintain their respective expressions).

My take is that rather than doing something as commonplace as flirting, Jalal is angling for an opening to the person he senses that she is, even while making a subtle, sensuous attempt to disorient her by his physical nearness. Jodha is trying equally hard not to give him that opening, and also to shut her senses to the closeness of this very attractive man, and whatever hitherto unknown sensations that stirs up. - GOOD point- That makes sense

Which is why she neither trips him up with a smart retort about the huge risks he had run to save another servitor, Abdul (Oh Abdul, where, oh where are you? You are sorely needed!) , nor does she let him prolong the near clinch, but sends him reeling with a smartly timed and very hard shove. The expression in Jalal's eyes as he looks at her at the very end is most revealing: he looks frustrated but still curious, while she seems angry, mostly with herself. But why? Is it because she has sensed a weakness in herself for her handsome husband that she never knew existed?

The Farman: I was disappointed at the rather pedestrian denouement of l'affaire Farman - I had half hoped for a Mughal-e-Azam style rescue for Motibai, but pinned my hopes on Jalal finding out on his own that the dead man had nothing to do with Motibai, even if the Adham angle was still left open. Well, this is not the last time the CVs, and a precap, have tripped me up and it will not be the last, I guess!😉

I would not, unlike so many here, read anything much of hidden romance into Jodha's holding Jalal back by clutching his arm, or his abruptly pulling her back to him, and whispering right next to her ear that there is nothing greater than a Shahenshah's word. On her side, the gesture is one of resentful pleading, triggered by the fear that along with the torn firman, Jalal had also jettisoned his promise. She is wrong, for he had no intention of not honouring the firman; the angry gesture of tearing it up and throwing it away comes from the accumulated anger of their last encounter, and perhaps he also wants to give her a little fright, and why not?

On his side, he wants to tease her, and there is also, I think, some satisfaction at her having been forced to accept and use his firman after all. But I do not think that he does all this deliberately to force Jodha to do so. Such speculation is nixed by his going to see Moti in the prison and trying to persuade her to change what might, in his thinking, be a false statement re: Adham Khan, so that he can let her off with a light sentence.

It is true that the wishful thinking Mansi, I and many others were indulging in re: Jalal - that he was so keen to get Moti off so as to spare Jodha the lifelong trauma of her death, that he would have exerted himself to dig out the truth - fell flat on its face. But I feel that this makes the script that much more realistic. Let me explain why.

Jalal is, above all, the Shahenshah, and now, without his Khan Baba, he has many serious and pressing political issues concerning the Mughal empire to tackle. The suspected rebellion by Mirza Beg in Kabul and Kandahar that he is discussing yesterday, which has to be dealt with quickly and quietly, is merely a case in point; earlier, during Bharmal's visit, there was a report about trouble in Jaunpur and elsewhere. There is also something amiss in Mathura. These are the matters that should and do preoccupy him; his personal affairs have to come second, and they do.

So, it was perhaps unduly wishful and unrealistic of us to imagine the Shahenshah burning the midnight oil trying to find ways to save a wench who he now believes has been lying thru her teeth to disastrous effect. And this for another female who is blatantly hostile to him and who, he might feel, would dismiss even any such efforts he might make as a fraud. It is far more plausible for him to behave as he does; letting Moti go to her death, since he is now convinced that she is guilty. He has already gone out of his way by visiting her twice in prison, an unprecedented gesture from an emperor, and that is it.

This is also for the better, in another way, for the Jalal-Jodha love story. This can now develop free of any improbably romantic twists, and also of the burden of gratitude on her side. I would like her to find out about Jalal's many positive qualities, over and above keeping his word, which she now acknowledges, and proclaims proudly to Mahaam Anga. But I would like her to do this in an impersonal context, unrelated to herself or her family, like what he did for that little Hindu boy. That would show her the real Jalal, who is that way by and of himself, because that is what he thinks is right, not something he cooks up or does to impress or please her. The admiration she will feel then is the only kind of admiration that will last.

Joke of the day: Ruqaiya clinging to Jalal's arm and praising him for having got the better of Jodha in that fencing bout. Here is perhaps the premier swordsman of his day, who keeps himself in top fighting mettle, and he is to be felicitated on having disarmed a young woman? It is Jodha who deserves a medal for having stood up to him and almost got the better of him at one point.

The CVs seem hellbent on making Ruqaiya out to be even more of a featherheaded, fawning bimbo than she has already been reduced to. One of these days, the real Ruqaiya's shade will rise from her maqbara , and then in logon ki to khair nahin!!😉

Shyamala B.Cowsik

Moontide thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#34
Dear Shyamala (plain vanilla with a hint of mint),

Thank God the eye has recovered enough to churn out two awesomes within less than 24 hrs 😃

Now to business...

I will definitely put forward my two ashrafi/mohar bit on the scenario at hand.

But before I proceed, and may be add a fresh reply there, I want to touch upon l'affaire Farman.
As one, whose impressionable years were shaped by that Badshah amongst Butlers..a cert J and the investigative spirit nurtured by the likes of the Woosters and the Psmiths, I in this particular affaire have a few Qs. It has disturbed me since as a freshman out of cradle I had lain first eyes on Akbar, who was in his mature years then and a great deal GREAT..err than his two subsequent versions.

Its a Q re this particular deewar mein chunwana process.

My first ask is, was there a set pattern/norm/adab/tehzeeb/niyam for taking position when getting masoned in?

Q2. Was there a strict masonistic code for building this wall around a live being (mostly women it seems during Akbar's reign)?

I will clarify my asks later in this post. First, my views...

See, it is obvious from all intents and purposes that Jalal was using Motibai's (some how calling her plain Moti gives me visions of Bharti Singh) case as an Adham sent chance for honing and perfecting his walling up blueprint. He, with his doorandeshi was laying the foundations so to speak for ensuring a far more exhalted and eternal place in folklore and Bollywood history for himself. He was preparing well and in advance for the Fairy-tale of Shekhu and Anarkali.
Having grown up on the road...he knew his masons would find it much easier to mask in that secret passage within the walls if they had prior experience of the whole thing.

For a passage there would have been for sure, had Jodha not head butted the process mid way. I'm sure Jalal, the keeper of an entire Harem is not that unaware to Adham's obsessions. He could not have missed out on his muh-bola big bro's heavy pantings every time Motibai was so much as mentioned. Someone so attuned and alert to the surroundings as he, is bound to have noticed the saucer transformation and directional inclination of his bro's eyes during his Shaadi with Jodha.

Also as an astute twenty year old, he would have known, Motibai having sworn on Jodha's head would not lie, not to mention the laughable letter that in the pretext of saving her honour gives her away in the most significant terms possible. Also a shepherd/commoner like the dead man in question being literate and in possession of fine stationery of such silken quality would have rankled that much touted Brain.

So no, Jalal was not for a moment deceived by Mahamanga's elaborate ruse.
But he perceived it as a chance! A gem of an opportunity to finally cause that Break-up between Jodha and her Moti. For every time these two hugged as they did at the slightest pretext, Jalal would suffer a sensation of pinpricks in a region Nor-easterly to his solar plexus. The feeling would soon turn into a full blown deep depression sending rushes of bloods to his famous head which inevitably led his feet to Jodha followed by subsequent thunderstorms with much lightning and teeth gnashing thrown in. And after having traded threats he would come back to his chambers each time feeling more defeated and pinprickly than before.

Tale of how Jodha had diffused a burning Motibai never sat well with him. Then much to Jalal's chargin Motibai accompanied her to Agra, tending to her every need and sharing her bedchambers... rights that should rightfully have been his, Jodha's Shohar Jalal's. Yet he was turned into a mere helpless looker on while Motibai and Jodha's bond grew stronger. Then on the day of judgement, Jodha coming out of Purdah only for Motibai's sake and hugging her and making her swear on her head was perhaps the proverbial last straw.

So Jalal decided to wall his enemy in.

Now you may ask why would he then have the passage built?
Well it was his first opportunity of finding out what looked good on the drawing board would turn out well in actuality when history and Anarkali called.

Secondly, he wanted Motibai out of Agra and into the charms of Abdul (I know I'm breaking a few hearts here. But truth must be told). Knowing Motibai's caring nature, Jalal was confident she would flip for the witty, smart but differently abled Abdul. Also when trading secrets about his attraction for Jodha, he had come to know of the layout of the region Nor-easterly to Abdul's solar plexus. He knew an object throbbed therein for Motibai.

Thirdly and most importantly, he did not want Jodha to pine away the rest of her life for her beloved Moti. The walled in section, had it actually contained Motibai's remains, would have become some kind of memorial for Jodha to cry buckets on for the next few decades and Jalal would have had no chance of settling the matter of the pinpricks ever. History would then never be made. But Jalal with his devilish cunning intended to, on a later date make an elaborate exhibition of team Motibai-Abdul in front of Jodha. Jalal believed, seeing Motibai transferring allegiance to Abdul would make Jodha tear up in all sense. He, Jalal would then act the perfect Baba Mustafa and sew her torn parts into a whole and win her over permanently.

So there!

Now coming back to my questions.

1. was there a set pattern/norm/adab/tehzeeb/niyam for taking position when getting masoned in?

I mean, First Motibai and then Anarkali both stood in the middle of the under construction wall like a centre piece, one singing love peons the other murmuring her last apologies to Jodha in very similar fashion. I was wondering, why stand? Especially when the masons have already taken their measurements and commenced construction. Would not sitting down save energy and be a lot less tiresome? Also why entertain the people burying you alive by songs and orations? Have to admit, the mind boggles!!

2. Was there a strict masonistic code for building this wall around a live being (mostly women it seems during Akbar's reign)?

See in both instances you had the Masons going for a complex technique of construction. I must say I have seen a few walls being built during my life and it has always been a process of brick laying that starts ground upwards and continues thus. But Both with Motibai and Anarkali I have found, they would construct the front facade up till neck level then go to the top and start moving downwards till only one brick breath of distance remains between the ascending and descending sections. That brick width would level exactly with the teared up hapless eyes of the walled in. then they would commence work from two sides and the last brick would be placed right in front of those eyes shutting out lookers on's view completely.

This I find a very intriguing technique of construction. Something that has been lost to the ravels of time. Also I have always wondered, when did they construct the roof? I mean four walls make a minar all right. But to stuff the light out of someone...as beautifully and eloquently described by Mahamanga...you would need to close the hatch too, wouldn't you? So did they use the rod and concrete theme of modern architecture or had wooden beams overlain with tiles or what other technique?
Must say it was a lot of money used for puffing out one life.

Wouldn't it have been much economic to have a reference wall like the main Prison boundary or something. Make the wallee stand in front..chains and all. Then have the wallers construct left right and front with slanting sections meeting the reference wall at the back?


Leaving you to ponder...

and threatening to come back again

Love,

Moontide 😉





elasingh thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#35
@ moontide...Excellent post...I couldnt stop laughing.
swtngl thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#36
Very nice post. You said some of the same things I had thought about. Jodha had treated Maham with the same respect that Jalal gives Maham, his badi ammi. To Jodha, Maham is Jalal's badi ammi. I am glad that Jodha did put Maham in her place. Maham is only able to mock Jodha right now because Jodha doesn't have the status Ruqaiya has. Even then Ruqaiya gets shown her place by Maham. Just like Ruqaiya knows details of Jalal's every night, so does Maham. Atleast now Jodha knows what to expect from Maham. By the way who were all these women, Jodha was going to ask for help.😆 The comment you made about instilling shahi guroor 👏

The sword fighting scene was great but it seemed like CVs were like "we have nothing to put in, (while watching Jodha Akbar sword scene) 😆 let's put the sword fighting scene in" It had no buildup. The whole time Jodha has been in Agra, I have never seen a sword. All of a sudden, she wakes up and says, "now that Motibai is save, let's go practice sword" Same with Jalal, he is so busy scheming with Ruqaiya, that we never saw him practice and all of sudden him also. The sword seemed to have been rushed in. Despite all that, the sword scene was fantastic. I loved it. You can tell that they practiced a lot. I would love to see a sword fighting scene again when they are in love. ☢️

The Farman
What I highlighted in red, I completely agree. Jalal is not the type of person who would give someone death sentence for Jodha to use the farman. He never expected her to use it to save Motibai. I don't expect Jalal to go find out the truth about what happened, he did his part. I do expect Jodha to find out the truth because she still needs to clear Motibai's name.
Here is my take of the hand grabbing. Jodha grabbed his arm as a reflex.
This is what I believe what they were thinking in bold.
Jalal: "Wait something just grabbed me...(looks at her hand)That looks like her hand...(looks at her face) That's her face. She is touching me at her own free will "(looks at her in the eye) There is a passing look of shock on his face when he realized that she touched him
After their eyes meet, Jodha realized that she was touching therefore tired to get away from him as soon as she could but Jalal catches her. I believe that Jalal was enjoying her discomfort at that time. Jalal had realized that Jodha held his arm because she didn't understand his actions. Him ripping that farman was a way of him saying it's done and you don't need this now. Jalal is a confusing guy, nobody would understand it besides me 😃. I knew when they showed it in the promo.So he says it in words for her to understand. He is enjoying the moment at that time because he has her where he wants her. She touched him at her own will even though it was a reflex. 😆 After he has said what he wants, he smiles and walks off. Rajat is a great actor and his expressions are fabulous. 👏👍🏼.

Where is Abdul? We haven't scene him in like forever.😭 Come back Abdul, Jalal needs you with all of these women around him. 😆

There is one scene you haven't mentioned, Rahim and Jodha. Rahim with his peacock feather came at the right time. Jodha has lost all her hope and doesn't know what to do and her Khana comes as Rahim to remind her of the farman. ( Now where she found the farman since it was with Jalal, I don't know)😆

Originally posted by: sashashyam

Ok, folks, enough of mooning and sighing about the duel between our Odd Couple, and get your heartbeats back to normal. A cold water splash for those young ladies who had, as per their posts, fainted, not just to to revive them, but to shake the visions of themselves as Jodha out of their minds!! 😉

There were in fact 2 duels yesterday between Jodha and Jalal , and both were as much of the minds and the wills of the contestants as of their swords. Between them, they bookended an episode which had little else of note. Let us first dispose of the odds and ends.

The ugly tirade against Jodha by a shellshocked Mahaam Anga, fuelle d by both escalating fear and by jealousy, was unbelievably vicious. I could not believe that this woman would have the gall to address a Shahi Begum in such terms, to mock and deride her so harshly. It must be a corollary of her assumption that Jodha has no hold on Jalal at all but the pull of the unattained, and that this too will soon pass, and then there is the visceral hatred she feels for all Hindus - witness how she recoils in distaste when Motibai touches her.

So far, Mahaam Anga's negativity towards Jodha has been oblique, and she maintained the surface proprieties, even if halfheartedly. But this time, the gloves were well and truly off, and all the bile in her for Jodha came pouring out in one vile stream of abuse.

What I could not digest was Jodha's standing there and listening to the harridan go on and on and on spouting venom, when all she had to do was to order her out in one sharp sentence. Mahaam Anga cannot enter Jodha's quarters uninvited and at will, and Jodha should have made that clear at once. It was bad enough that Jodha's dasis scurried out the day before when Mahaam Anga ordered them out, without getting any confirmation from their mistress. If Mahaam had tried to pull any such stunt with Ruqaiya, she would have been told off in no uncertain terms.

Today, I was startled and dismayed to see Jodha getting up to greet the old witch. What for? Ruqaiya never does so, and Jodha is as much of a Begum as Ruqaiya is. She should have got the upper hand right at the beginning by staying seated, and then sending Mahaam packing after the first 2 sentences.

As Ela noted, Jodha seems to reserve her pride and her snubs only for her patidev. I felt like shaking her yesterday, to try and drill some real shahi guroor into her head. 😡

The other faltu scene was of Ruqaiya at the harem. There should be a Defend Ruqaiya Forum to agitate against the wanton degradation of the character of Akbar's Empress-in-chief, now reduced to a shallow, harem-obsessed, mindless female. Smilie must be glad she was replaced before having to play this plastic creature. If Jalal could survive 100 days, not to speak of 100 nights with this female, he deserves a medal as big as a soup plate!😉

Now on to the real masala.

The Fencing Bout: Yes, yes, it was mindblowing, terrific, out of the world, rocking, and whatever else any of you wants. .😉

But, the fact remains, as doyelpakhi has pointed out elsewhere, that the context was totally unconvincing. It was as if the CVs has decided that the fencing match had to be copied from the film, and that yesterday was the day to shove it in, and so they shoved it in willy nilly, and plausibility be damned.

So we had Jodha, who had apparently thoughtfully carted her sword and the white fencing attire to Agra, suddenly get up one fine morning and decide to shed her ultra heavy daily Christmas tree getup for the aforesaid whites, and do a spot of fencing practice right next to the Shahenshahs quarters. Why the face veil, then, when the bindi is a dead giveaway? In fact, she could easily have been challenged, or even attacked, by some watchful guard, who would rightly have taken her for an armed intruder. The whole thing looked like a hastily assembled patchwork, quite unlike in the film, where the context had been worked out perfectly.

The duel itself, on the contrary, was wonderfully choreographed and superbly executed by both the actors. Paridhi in particular seemed to have put her training in fencing to good use, and matched the more experienced Rajat every step of the way. Jodha must be physically very strong for a relatively small made woman if she can push the much heavier Jalal back so hard, even allowing for the surprise element!

The duel in the film was more lighthearted and flirtatious, for there was no such backlog of overt animosity between them there. Whereas here it is an extension of their daily bouts of angry one-upmanship, and it seems at times as if Jodha would really like to land him a deadly blow.

One can of course read anything one wants into their eyes, especially hers, in that long moment when they stare at each other from 6 inches away (kudos to the actors who manage that without going cross-eyed, and still maintain their respective expressions).

My take is that rather than doing something as commonplace as flirting, Jalal is angling for an opening to the person he senses that she is, even while making a subtle, sensuous attempt to disorient her by his physical nearness. Jodha is trying equally hard not to give him that opening, and also to shut her senses to the closeness of this very attractive man, and whatever hitherto unknown sensations that stirs up.

Which is why she neither trips him up with a smart retort about the huge risks he had run to save another servitor, Abdul (Oh Abdul, where, oh where are you? You are sorely needed!) , nor does she let him prolong the near clinch, but sends him reeling with a smartly timed and very hard shove. The expression in Jalal's eyes as he looks at her at the very end is most revealing: he looks frustrated but still curious, while she seems angry, mostly with herself. But why? Is it because she has sensed a weakness in herself for her handsome husband that she never knew existed?

The Farman: I was disappointed at the rather pedestrian denouement of l'affaire Farman - I had half hoped for a Mughal-e-Azam style rescue for Motibai, but pinned my hopes on Jalal finding out on his own that the dead man had nothing to do with Motibai, even if the Adham angle was still left open. Well, this is not the last time the CVs, and a precap, have tripped me up and it will not be the last, I guess!😉

I would not, unlike so many here, read anything much of hidden romance into Jodha's holding Jalal back by clutching his arm, or his abruptly pulling her back to him, and whispering right next to her ear that there is nothing greater than a Shahenshah's word. On her side, the gesture is one of resentful pleading, triggered by the fear that along with the torn firman, Jalal had also jettisoned his promise. She is wrong, for he had no intention of not honouring the firman; the angry gesture of tearing it up and throwing it away comes from the accumulated anger of their last encounter, and perhaps he also wants to give her a little fright, and why not?

On his side, he wants to tease her, and there is also, I think, some satisfaction at her having been forced to accept and use his firman after all. But I do not think that he does all this deliberately to force Jodha to do so. Such speculation is nixed by his going to see Moti in the prison and trying to persuade her to change what might, in his thinking, be a false statement re: Adham Khan, so that he can let her off with a light sentence.

It is true that the wishful thinking Mansi, I and many others were indulging in re: Jalal - that he was so keen to get Moti off so as to spare Jodha the lifelong trauma of her death, that he would have exerted himself to dig out the truth - fell flat on its face. But I feel that this makes the script that much more realistic. Let me explain why.

Jalal is, above all, the Shahenshah, and now, without his Khan Baba, he has many serious and pressing political issues concerning the Mughal empire to tackle. The suspected rebellion by Mirza Beg in Kabul and Kandahar that he is discussing yesterday, which has to be dealt with quickly and quietly, is merely a case in point; earlier, during Bharmal's visit, there was a report about trouble in Jaunpur and elsewhere. There is also something amiss in Mathura. These are the matters that should and do preoccupy him; his personal affairs have to come second, and they do.

So, it was perhaps unduly wishful and unrealistic of us to imagine the Shahenshah burning the midnight oil trying to find ways to save a wench who he now believes has been lying thru her teeth to disastrous effect. And this for another female who is blatantly hostile to him and who, he might feel, would dismiss even any such efforts he might make as a fraud. It is far more plausible for him to behave as he does; letting Moti go to her death, since he is now convinced that she is guilty. He has already gone out of his way by visiting her twice in prison, an unprecedented gesture from an emperor, and that is it.

This is also for the better, in another way, for the Jalal-Jodha love story. This can now develop free of any improbably romantic twists, and also of the burden of gratitude on her side. I would like her to find out about Jalal's many positive qualities, over and above keeping his word, which she now acknowledges, and proclaims proudly to Mahaam Anga. But I would like her to do this in an impersonal context, unrelated to herself or her family, like what he did for that little Hindu boy. That would show her the real Jalal, who is that way by and of himself, because that is what he thinks is right, not something he cooks up or does to impress or please her. The admiration she will feel then is the only kind of admiration that will last.

Joke of the day: Ruqaiya clinging to Jalal's arm and praising him for having got the better of Jodha in that fencing bout. Here is perhaps the premier swordsman of his day, who keeps himself in top fighting mettle, and he is to be felicitated on having disarmed a young woman? It is Jodha who deserves a medal for having stood up to him and almost got the better of him at one point.

The CVs seem hellbent on making Ruqaiya out to be even more of a featherheaded, fawning bimbo than she has already been reduced to. One of these days, the real Ruqaiya's shade will rise from her maqbara , and then in logon ki to khair nahin!!😉

Shyamala B.Cowsik

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Posted: 12 years ago
#37
Thank you so much for such a thoughtful and well-considered response to my post, and of course also for liking it.

I still think Jodha should have shown Mahaam where she got off. She might have put Ruqaiya at a disadvantage over the Adhan-harem affair, but no way would she dare to talk to her as she did to Jodha today. If Jodha wanted to snub her by indirectly indicating that she is just a dasi - Ruqaiya once does the openly - why does she listen to all this muck from a dasi? Do queens do that? It looked as though all her retaliatory powers were used up in that one oblique comment about dasis, and then she was like a defanged snake.

Of the women Jodha went to for help, one was Hamida Banu's right hand woman, and another was Hamida Banu herself, but I do not know who the third one was.

The farman is with Jodha, not Jalal. Remember the scene when he brings it back, talks of ahduir jaankaari gunaah hai (about the Hindu boy) and then holds her right upper arm so tight that he leaves a mark? He brings the farman with him then, saying that he does not take back what he has once given, and she does not dare send it back after that.

Your take on the arm grabbing scene is perfect. Rajat is really a master of facial nuance. Amazing in one so young.

I do not know why I left little Rahim, whom I adore, having delighted in his dohas in praise of Lord Krishna when I was at school. Perhaps I was just tired and it slipped my mind. It was a very clever way of re-introducing the farman.

Shyamala B.Cowsik

Originally posted by: swtngl

Very nice post. You said some of the same things I had thought about. Jodha had treated Maham with the same respect that Jalal gives Maham, his badi ammi. To Jodha, Maham is Jalal's badi ammi. I am glad that Jodha did put Maham in her place. Maham is only able to mock Jodha right now because Jodha doesn't have the status Ruqaiya has. Even then Ruqaiya gets shown her place by Maham. Just like Ruqaiya knows details of Jalal's every night, so does Maham. Atleast now Jodha knows what to expect from Maham. By the way who were all these women, Jodha was going to ask for help.😆 The comment you made about instilling shahi guroor 👏

The sword fighting scene was great but it seemed like CVs were like "we have nothing to put in, (while watching Jodha Akbar sword scene) 😆 let's put the sword fighting scene in" It had no buildup. The whole time Jodha has been in Agra, I have never seen a sword. All of a sudden, she wakes up and says, "now that Motibai is save, let's go practice sword" Same with Jalal, he is so busy scheming with Ruqaiya, that we never saw him practice and all of sudden him also. The sword seemed to have been rushed in. Despite all that, the sword scene was fantastic. I loved it. You can tell that they practiced a lot. I would love to see a sword fighting scene again when they are in love. ☢️

The Farman
What I highlighted in red, I completely agree. Jalal is not the type of person who would give someone death sentence for Jodha to use the farman. He never expected her to use it to save Motibai. I don't expect Jalal to go find out the truth about what happened, he did his part. I do expect Jodha to find out the truth because she still needs to clear Motibai's name.
Here is my take of the hand grabbing. Jodha grabbed his arm as a reflex.
This is what I believe what they were thinking in bold.
Jalal: "Wait something just grabbed me...(looks at her hand)That looks like her hand...(looks at her face) That's her face. She is touching me at her own free will "(looks at her in the eye) There is a passing look of shock on his face when he realized that she touched him
After their eyes meet, Jodha realized that she was touching therefore tired to get away from him as soon as she could but Jalal catches her. I believe that Jalal was enjoying her discomfort at that time. Jalal had realized that Jodha held his arm because she didn't understand his actions. Him ripping that farman was a way of him saying it's done and you don't need this now. Jalal is a confusing guy, nobody would understand it besides me 😃. I knew when they showed it in the promo.So he says it in words for her to understand. He is enjoying the moment at that time because he has her where he wants her. She touched him at her own will even though it was a reflex. 😆 After he has said what he wants, he smiles and walks off. Rajat is a great actor and his expressions are fabulous. 👏👍🏼.

Where is Abdul? We haven't scene him in like forever.😭 Come back Abdul, Jalal needs you with all of these women around him. 😆

There is one scene you haven't mentioned, Rahim and Jodha. Rahim with his peacock feather came at the right time. Jodha has lost all her hope and doesn't know what to do and her Khana comes as Rahim to remind her of the farman. ( Now where she found the farman since it was with Jalal, I don't know)😆

Edited by sashashyam - 12 years ago
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Posted: 12 years ago
#38
Thank you, my dear.

Shyamala B.Cowsik
Edited by sashashyam - 12 years ago
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Posted: 12 years ago
#39
Kashi my dear,

This is really a compliment to be valued greatly, and I do so value it. Thank you, and I am so glad to be able to help you in any way at all.

I agree with all your well thought out comments. As for what Mahaam said about Jodha and Jalal, the harem is like a fishbowl; I am sure the Mughal dasis assigned to Jodha are all spies reporting back to Mahaam. Jodha's personal dasis are useless layabouts doing nothing useful by way of gathering info for their mistress from the other harem maids,

Shyamala Aunty



Originally posted by: ginco

Shymala Aunty ,

This is what i wait for ... a meticulous and thought capturing post... i would let u on in a secret today.. after reading your posts i stopped watching the repeats as i used to do earlier ... now i wait for your post n then go about watching them all over again... wat a satisfaction it brings..

I would also like to point out tht i have always been fascinated by history ... but it is not always easy to understand wat lies when there is a complex web of emotions tht a king n queen bring together with them in a form of a saga... n u help me with the same ...

I completely agree with :-

QUOTE{{ ---- My take is that rather than doing something as commonplace as flirting, Jalal is angling for an opening to the person he senses that she is, even while making a subtle, sensuous attempt to disorient her by his physical nearness. Jodha is trying equally hard not to give him that opening, and also to shut her senses to the closeness of this very attractive man, and whatever hitherto unknown sensations that stirs up... }} QUOTE


see here as far as jala was concerned i was quite sure tht he felt the above..however i was confused as to why jodha was nto angry about losing to jalal .. because she was the challenger (read :attacker ) but then again u cleared it ... i was sure somehow tht jodha did nto give any such expression tht she was feeling nervous because of jalal's presence .. or lets stay proximity .. she has experienced it before n felt nothing .. but wat changed today ??? remains a mystery ...


Also both MA and ruqu are insecure because of jodha ...or lets call it that they r apprehensive .. but the only difference is tht MA chose to confront jodha very wildly regarding tht n ruqu ...alas has a head full of Cr*p as per CV's so she just comes in and damkofyies almost everyone in the show n gives the same treatment to jodha...

The only thing tht i was concerned about was did MA choose to make a personal attack on jodha after jodha gave her back the vile of poison... ( it is shame tht jodha did listen to ,... n why was she talking about saamaan... completely an off answer to wat MA was pointing to ... she was comparing her ... n jodha should have let her tht it is nto her guroor it is her self -respect tht she is showing off ) .. i was like samaan ko chooodo jodha swabhimaan ki baat karo ...

and how does MA know tht jalal has not had her (jodha) ... n wat did she mean tht she would wait for jalal to do away with jodha first n then MA would start her song... i thought tht was pure insult n nothing else for jodha from MA ... n even if jo was supposed to listen to those as per the script .. ther should have been an apt answer...i get confused when jodha picks up a smaj seva ka topic n starts lectorofying instead of saying something apt n to the point ...

Rest , about ruqaiya... iam sure tht gal playing this character is sry to have accepted this role ...i just feel tht CV's r just adjusting her in the story n showing scenes to keep her in the plot otherwise no need for her ...n tht is why she has been shown plotting with jalal n become his accomplice .. uske scenes toh bas yuhi daal diye hai n they contradict with her character sketch n the ruqlal scenes shown previously ... 😉 i feel sorry for her as she is the thrid wheel for now n would be left with nothing when this love story begins ...

Cheers
Kashi




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Posted: 12 years ago
#40

phewww!! i finally got the chance to complete my post. 😲

So here is the rest of it -

2) I absolutely agree with you regarding the thoughts going through Jalal and Jodha's mind during that staring contest of about 6 minutes or so... Yes, Jalal is trying to find an opening to the person that Jodha is. Ofcourse, he thinks its only so that he could use it against her, but really, that is such a load of bull crap. He is totally intrigued by her on a much more personal level. He wants to unlock the mystery that is Jodha. He wants to find out why he reacts to her so differently than the rest, even ruqaiya. And he admires her courage and her beauty and her zest for life every step of the way. Gosh, i am analysing so much.. i really should get a life, shouldnyt i?? About Jodha, she is really trying hard to block jalal out of the opening he desires. And she is kind if lost, both at it and for him. Oh, i love those two and the story that is unfolding...

For me, the swordfight didnt seem so out of place. Isnt it possible that Jodha was just truly practising and Jalal just happened to be upon her? She, after all, quite prides herself on haing remarkable swordmanship skills and even in amber, was always practising to hone those skills. But what transpired later was so remarkable. Both were out to draw blood, and the fight was different in its elemnt than the one in the movie Jodha-akbar where it was light and flirtatious. It seemed to depict their current state of minds. The one up-manship and their skills were both amazing. The underlying conversation that they had was amazing too. For me, the story is developing quite nicely and i am so totally in love with it.

I read the Farmaan incident the following way - "She grabbed his hand in the almost desperate way because she so no other way to save her motibai. It was involuntary and a surprise to herself that she would go so far as to actually plead with him for something, but she realized in that very moment that the reason she did so is that now, she accepts him to have the humanly emotions like compassion that would allow him to recognise the pleading in her voice and respond it, while previously she would never attribute to the fact that he infact, is also human and allows for such weaknesses. For her part, the moment Jalal made her realize what she had inadvertently done, she shies away and loses her hold on that hand. The expressions paridhi emotes in that one moment are so amazing in conveying to us that very thing, and Rajat too, for that matter. Jalal doesnt allow her to shy away in his particularly bold fashion and pulls her towards him to make her realise all the more just how close she has come, even without wanting it. This silent battle between them is what made the scene click for me."

Joke of the day - Lol that made me laugh. Truly, they are butchering the Ruqaiya character left, right and centre and making her out to be a regular TV vamp.

Loved your analysis as per usual.

Lots of love,

Shal.

P.S - a reply to your reply at bold -

Dear Shalmali,

I agree with you about the real roots of Mahaam Anga's behaviour, which is why I had used the expression escalating fear when describing her reaction.

But there is also, clearly, the assessment on her part that she can get away with such uncalled for and vicious nastiness to Jodha, as there is at present no backing for Jodha from the only person who counts for Mahaam Anga, Jalal. That element cannot and should not be discounted. She would never say anything remotely similar to Mansingh, even if she ever got the chance, for she would know that the kid would repeat it verbatim to Jalal, with whom it would not play well at all. Yup, she would never say such a thing to Maansingh for he would go and say all to Jalal and Jalal would believe him too, but with Jodha, she never would go to Jalal in the first place, for she would never think that Jalal could listen to her. I am not discounting for that fact, but something tells me that even if Jodha does have that backing she would not have gone on to spill the beans to Jalal, for she would like to handle that on her own. Its her pride in herslef that maham recognises will not allow her to involve Jalal.

Also, please do go back and listen to what all MA says to Jodha, and then tell me if free enough to even be slightly disrespectful towards her is the right phrase. "Slightly disrespectful", when she tells Jodha that she has nothing that the other queens have, and that she is going to be discarded like a piece of junk soon, and then she, Mahaam Anga, will show her where her real place in the harem is? Slightly?? Have a heart, my dear!

And what does Jodha have to say to that? A protest about the lack of respect of women in the harem for other women, but not a word about the insults to her. What sort of Rani is she claiming to be? Would any queen in her right mind, who realises what is due to her postion, have stood there and listened to this stream of vile insults till the old harridan ran out of steam, and after she leered into her face and finally took herself off, nodded her head in apparent wonderment at such overt and unbelievable rudeness? I do not at all agree that Jodha was quietly dignified. I think she was foolish in the extreme to let MA go on as she did unchecked.

Jodha is bidng her time, thats what i feel. When she does answer her, she would like to leave no loop holes through which Maham might have a chance to escape. I read her that way for she depicted the very same characteristics during the chess match, and also the poison incidence with Maham. When Ruqaiya kept going on and on, she remained silent, until she shut her up by winning the match. She didnt have to say a word, for her actions spoke. Similarly, when Maham gave her the poison to give Motibai, she didint throw it away or say anything to maham. she just bid her time, till she got an adequate comeback. thats what makes her so very different to Ruqaiya and all the other begums. She doesnt say anything, and yet she says a lot. So let her allow Maham to go on and on, because when Maham does fall on her face, it will be all the more sweeter for us.

There was no need for her to be undignified, or to descend to MA's level, as someone else has noted. She could have been freezingly dignified and yet coldly dismissive. She should not have allowed even one of those insulting sentences to be completed at all. No true queen would have permitted it.

It was not a question of a 'first stone', was it? It was a shower of boulders.

The thing is that Jodha has not yet learnt the ropes of queenliness. Even Hamida Banu would never have put up with a a fraction of the stuff that was dished out to Jodha today. If the Mughal servants heard Mahaam Anga talk to her like this and get away with it, soon they would start being cheeky with Jodha as well. Perceptions matter.

I agree with you on this matter. Jodha does have a lot to learn where liivng in the harem as a queen is concerned. She would do well to imitate Hamida. But she is learning soon and when she does learn, she will turn out to be better than Hamida at it for she has the backing of a very sharp mind, and the sensibility of a very just queen. Like they say, a queen of the heart, a queen of the people.

The other thing is that Paridhi is beginning to grow on me as an actress, and she was really very good in both the encounters with Jalal yesterday, especially the firman one. And Jodha, dressed to the nines, looks beautiful all the time now. But the way she handled Mahaam set my teeth on edge. I would have liked to have shaken her soundly and drilled some sense into her pretty head.

Yup, i am loving Paridhi as an actress and she is beautiful - a mix of the old world charm and the boldness of our current generation. And just wait for her comeback to Maham - I have a feeling you will be pleasantly surprised.

Lots of love,

Shalmali.

Shyamala


Edited by shal1983 - 12 years ago

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