Ques on MahaBhrarta. Peep in/ DT Nt pg 25 - Page 22

Originally posted by: Viswasruti

This is such a wonderful thread full of knowledge. With Mina's guidance, it flourished like a spring garden for spiritual understanding! I don't want to leave it to go back to oblivion, people should know the level of knowledge/ awareness the IF members have in Mythology and Epics such as Ramayan, Mahabharath, and in Upanishads, this thread is the replica of that wisdom.

I am a bit busy at present, would love to be back here to know more and more from the revered members here.

Thanks for bringing it to the forefront Partha. 🤗

Yes, Madhuri, this thread has some wonderful words of wisdom along with knowledge.

Having only knowledge is not enough. It needs to be experienced.

Such experience can be shared with like minded people, that expands overall pov.

I am nobody to guide. It's the path decided by the Supreme Consciousness. We are just taking baby steps like the TM said.

Thanks to all for sharing your views here. 😊

Originally posted by: mnx12

Yes, Madhuri, this thread has some wonderful words of wisdom along with knowledge.

Having only knowledge is not enough. It needs to be experienced.

Such experience can be shared with like minded people, that expands overall pov.

I am nobody to guide. It's the path decided by the Supreme Consciousness. We are just taking baby steps like the TM said.

Thanks to all for sharing your views here. 😊

My comments in Red.

Originally posted by: Y12345

Hi all. I'm happy to announce that I asked for this to be opened again, hopefully we can continue to have more fruitful discussions.

So, to launch on again the debate I been reading the part in Mahabharata where Lord Krishna explains the BG to Arjun more precisely what he said about reincarnation, see the thing is that the more you read about it again, each time, you get a whole new perspective and lots of questions.

Hence, I was thinking a lot lately about karma, and the fact that if we want to be reunited with the Supreme Lord and not be born in this materialistic world , we must do good, to put it in simple terms, and we must also be self-aware souls (self consciousness) so that we won't be born again and suffer, or worst be born as an animal or insect. This is what vedic tells us right?; (I didnt put the verses that say that but feel free to add it)

The karma theory which says 'do good' is only the first step. Karma is done for chitta-shuddhi and results only in chitta-shddhi. To escape from samsara ( cycle of rebirth/ transmigration) needs Jnana. (As per Shankara advaita). Jnanam eva moksha sadhanam.

1)But my question would be suppose I do bad and I'm born as a insect because of my bad karma, how can I lift myself from this situation especially if I do not have the consciousness to do it? Since, I'm an insect, so does that mean I will be trapped in this cycle of birth/rebirth forever? Meaning only us humans can attain the supreme soul because we have the means to do it? Once we go down the ladder because of bad karma, we cannot go against nature and go up and correct our karma?

Yes, in normal circumstances, an insect or lower order creature cannot hope for liberation. But it will get rebirth and the force of karma is such that it will move up the "ladder" so to say..be born in higher yonis. But it is slow and long process extending over several janamas (births) .

Thats why human birth is so cherished...the faculty of viveka or discriminative knowledge is given only to humans. So yes, to answer your question, only humans have the capacity for achieving moksha. If we go down the ladder, we will move up but it may take several several janams (births)

This also brings me to my second question; why in the first place our souls got separated from the supreme soul?

No jiva- aatma is never separated from the Supreme. That's the essence of Upanishad as per advaita. But Because of avidya and our limited conciousness, we perceive ourselves as different from the Supreme. Sarvam khalu idam bhramam...does not the upanishad say this? Ishavaasyam idam sarvam.. the Isha Upanishad begins like this.

2)Now, another question: I again thought about it a lot, and it might be difficult to put it in words, but I'll try. So, as I said before( please correct me always if I'm wrong!) that only self realized souls go to the supreme soul, and those who don't go through the cycle again and again and are reborn according to their karma, but how does that work? What I can inferred from my knowledge( MB+BG) is that once we are dead, our soul may enter a new womb but at what time does that exactly happen?

At what time does a departed soul get a new womb?

Depends on the spiritual progress of the person departed. If the dead person was too attached to the material world, if he identified too much with his body/ family/ society known as deha-abhimanam then the transmigration is almost immediate. After the 11 day from the death, (when sapindeekaranam is done) such a soul will look for any possible means to get back into a womb and will choose the nearest one available. If however the person had made even little spiritual progress whe he was alive, the soul can take its time and decide on its next birth. (time taken to exist without a body and capacity to decide depends on the spiritual progress made when alive)

3 months when heartbeat is detected?And what if the soul doesn't have a womb to enter right now? Then what happens?

That's why the post death rituals are so important and so meaningful. On the 11 day after leaving the body, the aatma is released from this birth and made free to move on. If properly freed, (i.e if the son/daughter/ anyone else) then the soul should not have a problem (a) either to enter a new womb (b) decide when to take the next birth

We are made to believe that God separated his ( supreme) soul and created us sub-souls but how many are they? On a practical level, is the number of death and number of birth constant in the world? If not, then can we say that the difference is the number of souls that are the great souls who won' be born again? Again, the world population keeps increasing how do we explain that? Think about the MB war, loads of people died, what happened to their souls?

Okay second question is a bit crazy but it's an absolute pleasure to read your responses and to ponder on your questions. Cheers. Looking forward

Well, look who's back. 😃

varaali, It's good to see you after a long time. 😊

Originally posted by: mnx12

Well, look who's back. 😃

varaali, It's good to see you after a long time. 😊

Thank you so much.

It's good to be back to back and thanks for restoring my account

varaali,

Check these stories whenever you get time.

The Chariot Of Dharma Last round page 6 IF- NC- Winner

Together We Are Timeless[IF-NC_ENTRY] For Round 5 , page 11

Thanks varaali for the explanation.

With regards to Sri Adi Shankaracharya and Advaitha philosophy, have few questions. I have just started reading the holy texts recently, so my understanding is limited. Could you please clarify the below:

A) As per my understanding, Sri Adi Shankaracharya propounded supreme consciousness as the driver for everything. And, that supreme consciousness can be realized by anyone through Knowledge. And, there is no specific creator who drives this universe but only that supreme consciousness. If that is the case, then what was the reason for writing devotional hymns dedicated to various Gods like Lord Shiva, Lord Narasimha, Lord Krishna and so on. If one can achieve Moksh only through knowledge(Gnana) then what was the purpose of establishing idols/statues of God/Goddess in the Peeths, and performing prayers to the God/Goddess.

B) If supreme consciousness pervades everything and a person's deeds determine his destiny, then in that case why it is important to perform rituals after death. Also, as I understand everyone is accounted for his actions/karma, then in that case, how can final rites performed by others drives a person's destiny after his death in the next birth. I mean to say a person's account of karma in that lifecycle ends with his death and he takes a new life form/ gets liberation based on his karma. So, in my view after his death, performing of final rites by others(whose actions are not in the control of the dead person) can drive his destiny in the future seems inconsistent.

Also, why do we have regular pujas performed to Lord Shiva/Goddess Sharadamba in the peeths established by Sri Adi Shankaracharya, if he has clearly stated there is no specific creator/creators who govern the universe. Also, what was the reason of installing various Yantra and so on. If gnana liberates one from the cycle of birth and death, then what is the reason for the existence of Bhakthi mode and ritual modes in these peeths.

I have struggled to understand these in context of Advaitha Philosophy.

In the case of Sri Ramanujacharya, he propounds the philosophy, where there is a supreme creator in the form of Lord Vishnu who drives everything. And, human beings seeking Moksh can follow Bhakthi marg and get liberated and ultimately join the blissful state where they are eternally united with Lord Vishnu. This concept as I understand synthesizes Bhakthi with acceptance of a supreme creator, who when required takes the form of various avatars to run the universe.

Please correct me, if I have misstated anything or for lack of my understanding of these topics.

Thank you very much varaali for clarifying the doubts.🙏

Still, feel there is some inconsistency in the teaching and the actual practices of Advaita by Sri Adi Shankaracharya. If I'm not wrong Sri Adi Shankaracharya composed hymn instantaneously on Lord Narasimha, when he was faced with some dangers and had mystical vision and experience of the Lord. But, as per my limited reading, I did not find in Advaita philosophy, any discussion about such mystical experiences or having visions of God. Also, Advaita philosophy which rules out any specific creator/God, seems more or less similar to Buddhism in some aspects. The main difference between them at the highest level seems to be that, one believes in Aatma while the other doesn't, even though both believe in the cycle of life and death.

Actually, I like your way of explanation, bhakthi marg and karma marg should go together to achieve jnana which finally results in Moksh. Lord Krishna in Gita points out various ways which seems logical, as not all persons would have the spiritual and intellectual capacity to directly jump into understanding sophisticated texts related to gaining of knowledge.

Thanks again for your time.

Originally posted by: Viswasruti

This is such a wonderful thread full of knowledge. With Mina's guidance, it flourished like a spring garden for spiritual understanding! I don't want to leave it to go back to oblivion, people should know the level of knowledge/ awareness the IF members have in Mythology and Epics such as Ramayan, Mahabharath, and in Upanishads, this thread is the replica of that wisdom.

I am a bit busy at present, would love to be back here to know more and more from the revered members here.

Thanks for bringing it to the forefront Partha. 🤗

Thanks for sharing your views with us. This thread is epic. I'm amazed by what I read and I hope it keeps going and the learning never stops.

Originally posted by: Y12345

Thanks for sharing your views with us. This thread is epic. I'm amazed by what I read and I hope it keeps going and the learning never stops.