Ques on MahaBhrarta. Peep in/ DT Nt pg 25 - Page 23

Originally posted by paartha

Originally posted by Varali --Red

Thanks varaali for the explanation.

With regards to Sri Adi Shankaracharya and Advaitha philosophy, have few questions. I have just started reading the holy texts recently, so my understanding is limited. Could you please clarify the below:

A) As per my understanding, Sri Adi Shankaracharya propounded supreme consciousness as the driver for everything. And, that supreme consciousness can be realized by anyone through Knowledge. And, there is no specific creator who drives this universe but only that supreme consciousness. If that is the case, then what was the reason for writing devotional hymns dedicated to various Gods like Lord Shiva, Lord Narasimha, Lord Krishna and so on. If one can achieve Moksh only through knowledge(Gnana) then what was the purpose of establishing idols/statues of God/Goddess in the Peeths, and performing prayers to the God/Goddess.

Answering the part highlighted in green above.

Chanting devotional hymns / doing puja etc is a very important step towards gaining jnana. They may not be an end in themselves but they cannot be bypassed either. If you have read the Shaankara Bhashyas, you will find that Shankara paid utmost importance to the performance of agnihotra and other mandated kriyas. But the main point to be remembered is that such kriyas...puja/ bhajan/ agnihotra karmas are a valuable step in the achieveing the final goal- which is - the supreme jnana, but not an end in themselves.

I feel it this way, idols are the representation of God. They give an image for the devotees to offer prayer and also a form for spiritual communication. An image of God gives inner strength to imagine in adverse times and also an idol is a blissful presence in the space we live.

This is from the materialistic point of view. A basic explanation.

If a person can surrender herself with pure faith in front of an idol, it signifies his/ her deep belief and total absence of an egoistic attitude. Human beings should consider spirituality as a way to connect to one’s own inner self . Worshipping idol is just a small step in this process of spiritual realization.

As Krishna discoursed in Bhagavad Gita,--"if the replica, a piece of God is with a human, whose mind and soul are in harmony, who are free from desire and wrath, who know their own soul"

Idols are a symbolic representation of various characters and phenomena. For eg: Ganesha image represents several things. Each and every representation has many stories and ideologies to tell and they symbolically represent the meaning of what they stand for!!

Idols are the embodiment of energy. They channelize positive energy and bring meaning and prosperity. Each and everything has energy. Sacred Idols radiate powerful positive energy.

We all very much aware of the fact that Sri Sankaracharya's Sri Chakra under the statue of Lord Venkateswara at Tirupati and at Siddivinayaka Temple , Mumbai by Chandrasekharendra Saraswathi, which attracts devotees as well as wealth at large numbers/quantities.

For Hindu religious functioning, From the Indian Philosophical point of view, Vigraharadhana gained prominence for centuries.

I am unable to cover all the points, ready to learn from the revered members here.

Thanks Viswasruti. Yes, you are right with regards to the underlying philosophy of Vigraharadhana and it helping an individual to focus on almighty and then realize self. So, these techniques might have been envisaged by our revered sages as self help tools and techniques.

However, the point I was making was at the inconsistency in the points mentioned by Sri Adi Shankaracharya and the actual practices. I did not find any explicit statements in his explanation saying that all these idols/yantras and peeths should not be thought about to have some divine power and so on but merely places/items to focus on self. Also, he did not say anywhere that the hyms he composed on various Gods was to just help people realize self. Instead it seems those hymns were composed out of inspiration out of pure ecstasy and bliss and having seen divine visions or have had mystical experiences.

So, based on my limited reading of our holy texts, even though they seem to point out that Atma in one's self is the same parabrahma pervading everywhere in the universe. But, still those texts talk about mystical/divine experiences, so in my view, all these texts do acknowledge there exists a supreme creator, the one who gave Vedas and other sacred texts, and the one who was responsible for everything. So, taking that approach, Vigraharadhana is not merely helping one to focus on self and realize brahman but to directly pray to that supreme power. So, in a nutshell there exists a creator who has physical form and takes avatar whenever required.

Please correct me if anything is incorrect.

Originally posted by: paartha

Thanks Viswasruti. Yes, you are right with regards to the underlying philosophy of Vigraharadhana and it helping an individual to focus on almighty and then realize self. So, these techniques might have been envisaged by our revered sages as self help tools and techniques.

However, the point I was making was at the inconsistency in the points mentioned by Sri Adi Shankaracharya and the actual practices. I did not find any explicit statements in his explanation saying that all these idols/yantras and peeths should not be thought about to have some divine power and so on but merely places/items to focus on self. Also, he did not say anywhere that the hyms he composed on various Gods was to just help people realize self. Instead it seems those hymns were composed out of inspiration out of pure ecstasy and bliss and having seen divine visions or have had mystical experiences.

Well said Partha, with divine blessings those were his mystical experiences, expressed instantaneously, eg Kanakadhara Sthotra and Annapurnashtakam!

So, based on my limited reading of our holy texts, even though they seem to point out that Atma in one's self is the same parabrahma pervading everywhere in the universe. But, still those texts talk about mystical/divine experiences, so in my view, all these texts do acknowledge there exists a supreme creator, the one who gave Vedas and other sacred texts, and the one who was responsible for everything. So, taking that approach, Vigraharadhana is not merely helping one to focus on self and realize brahman but to directly pray to that supreme power. So, in a nutshell there exists a creator who has physical form and takes avatar whenever required.

Please correct me if anything is incorrect.

In Samaveda and in Yajurveda--it was mentioned as --- Na tasya pratima asti .... There is no Image of Him.

In the same way in BG too, it was the same line mentioned -Na Tasya Pratima Asti

'Understand me from immaterial form { आ-तत्व} , do not bound me in this body form of Krishna, Vishnu, Ram, Shiva!

This is so simple because Vedas are so direct, they are just a keyword to understand God and his creation.

Supreme Being is being identified as an exclusive Spiritual Being and not as an expression of an Infinite Being in terms of the human mind. He is the Universal Spirit who has manifested as All-Nature. He is one with all, and if a person with faith wants to see Him anywhere, He is present there. A holy image is thus a point at which His real presence is available for imperfect man to apprehend and commune with. It is not a mere means for practicing concentration as some preachers say. It is much more. It is a point of real communion with the Divine. It is a ladder that enables him to climb to a higher position. It is very difficult to climb to a position without support. The image is only a means to achieve much needed Spiritual awareness I feel.

See the following verse from the Gita: "Those whose intelligence has been stolen by material desires surrender unto demigods and follow the particular rules and regulations of worship according to their own natures." [Bhagavad Gita 7:20] The Gita states that people who are materialistic, they will worship demigods i.e. ‘gods’ besides the True God. Human being needs a support to build his philosophical/ divine knowledge, the knowledge of Atma, the awareness of Paramatma, and the means to achieve the knowledge of Supreme Atma, Paramatma.

I know my knowledge is very limited, but still daring to share my thoughts with you all. 😊

Thank you Partha for making me think on this line for a while. ⭐️

Thank you Viswasruti for the explanation and sharing your point of view. Appreciate your time and effort on this. 🙏

Originally posted by: paartha

Thank you Viswasruti for the explanation and sharing your point of view. Appreciate your time and effort on this. 🙏

God's idols or images in temple are, " prana pratishthita". When a one visits the temple, gets pulled by the divine energy. He tries to communicate with idol in simple language or recites prayer, shloka, mantra etc, trying to connect with the power. Gets satisfaction of conveying his feelings to god. He may find means of getting his worries solved, reassuring his faith.

This is a small way of conditioning ones mind in getting connected with the supreme power. Over a period of time, his mind gets closely connected to the power, based on his faith. Fortunate ones may grow ahead on this path & try to understand god more by performing austerity, read upanishads, holy scriptures etc. That is gyana of the supreme power. Leading into realisation of God.

Self realisation follows after this stage resulting in being one with the supreme consciousness.

Here one has to unlearn previously learnt scriptures too.

In books it may appear as simple stuff as aatma has to realise paramatma, or aatma is part of paramatma.

In reality one has to live or actualise oneself or live in unison with the supreme consciousness as the supreme consciousness.

Its a long process. At times going on from many births. What aadi shankaracharya explained is absolutely right. He explained only about initial steps leaving the worthy seekers to learn & live this path from an eminent guru.

Originally posted by: mnx12

God's idols or images in temple are, " prana pratishthita". When a one visits the temple, gets pulled by the divine energy. He tries to communicate with idol in simple language or recites prayer, shloka, mantra etc, trying to connect with the power. Gets satisfaction of conveying his feelings to god. He may find means of getting his worries solved, reassuring his faith.

This is a small way of conditioning ones mind in getting connected with the supreme power. Over a period of time, his mind gets closely connected to the power, based on his faith. Fortunate ones may grow ahead on this path & try to understand god more by performing austerity, read upanishads, holy scriptures etc. That is gyana of the supreme power. Leading into realisation of God.

Self realisation follows after this stage resulting in being one with the supreme consciousness.

Here one has to unlearn previously learnt scriptures too.

In books it may appear as simple stuff as aatma has to realise paramatma, or aatma is part of paramatma.

In reality one has to live or actualise oneself or live in unison with the supreme consciousness as the supreme consciousness.

Its a long process. At times going on from many births. What aadi shankaracharya explained is absolutely right. He explained only about initial steps leaving the worthy seekers to learn & live this path from an eminent guru.

Wonderful explanation regards the bolded part and it seems a logical progression for the human being. Your answers are always helpful and are clear to understand. Thank you.

I have just started reading the texts and sometimes it becomes too taxing to understand all the subtle underlying concepts with my limited knowledge. I find there are too many texts like so many Upanishads, and schools of philosophy. But, the underlying theme in all of them more or less seems to proclaim that human potential is not limited and human being can very well achieve divinity which could be translated as Moksh/Liberation. Only the methods in these texts to achieve that stage seems to differ. For example, as per Maharishi Patanjali who mentions in his Yug sutr, practising of strict Brahmacharya in word, deed and in thoughts encompasses all that is needed for a human being to realize his full potential. As per him, there is nothing that cannot be achieved through the practice of Brahmacharya. Likewise, other texts seem to suggest a different path, where one who practices regular rituals as mentioned in Vedas, like performing of Yagna and so on, and it would result in achieving of liberation. Different texts seem to give diiferent paths, but they all seem to suggest, freeing oneself from the cycle of birth and death is the supreme goal of human birth.

Also, what I find is, Puranas seem to suggest there is a specfic personal God ex: Lord Shiva, Lord Krishna and so on, who are ready to grant boons to devotees who pray to them ardently and are able to perform miracles for their behalf. Whereas, some of the texts of Upanishads seem to portray the supreme power as an impersonal supreme consciousness devoid of any physical characteristics and thrust the burden back to human being, where it seems to emphasize on getting Gnana is paramount and only thus one can achieve Moksh.

To me, the answers given by you all, that various paths do exist, without exclusivity of any one particular path. And a blend of such paths is also needed as well, seems correct and logical.

Thanks for understanding the explanation.

Maharshi Patanjali, was right during his time period. Today its difficult to follow his path. Similarly performing yagya every day, may not be possible. Hence one has to find a practical, workable path, which can be different each one of us. Best part is never try too hard. Just let it happen.

Puranas are story based. They introduce us to various entities of our faith. Upanishads are to be followed after Puranas.

Its important to understand them instead of just reading. It may happen what you are reading today can be understood later. But if you have knowledge stored in mind, realization can happen any time in just a blink of a moment. Hence never stop the learning process.

Various path does exist. We can follow one suitable to us & find exclusivity in it. As one progresses, logic vanishes only realization, actualization remains.

Beautifully and concisely expressed. Thank you.

Happy Maha Shivratri dear revered friends in this thread.⭐️⭐️⭐️

Our culture, traditions, and festivals have a deeper meaning. All of them are associated with a specific divine energy. This divine energy is given a name and form for us to understand the virtues, qualities, and its blessings clearly. One among these energies, and the presiding energy, is Shiva.

Ever thought why is Shiva the subject of such deep wonder and worshipped so widely in India? Could Shiva be an actual person? Does divinity possess a human form? And would it be limited if that divinity was in a human body? Many questions with innumerable answers! Want to know from our good friends here.😊

The Vedas and Upanishads tell us that our life has a hint of Lord Shiva. In those philosophical discourses, Shiva is nothing but that deep state of peace, calmness and inner stability.

While Shava is motionless or lifeless, Shiva is with the potential of life. Anything with Shiva is with life and anything without Shiva is shava: a dead body.lifeless.

So, Shiva is auspicious, Shiva is life and Shiva is potential. Shiva is all-encompassing - the universal soul or consciousness.🙏🏻