Why is pain necessary? - Page 2

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jjkg thumbnail
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Posted: 13 years ago
#11
😭

Originally posted by: harshal25

But Indira was not ready. Her family was the serpent in their forest, and she did nothing to protect themselves from it. Instead she dragged their future life purposely into the hell-hole that is her family. This was her biggest mistake.

It is one thing to love and support one's family. But one has to get something in return like love and support. She does not even get basic courtesy from them, rather we have seen repeatedly, they have aggressively worked to make her more miserable. What have they not done to Indira?

She could be feeding this serpent the rest of her life, and she will still be no closer to happiness as she is now. Rather as time passes, happiness will move away from her.

This is the main flaw in your thesis

Indira really has to realize that she is enabling their hellish behavior. Their is something in her psyche that in a masochistic way, gets weird satisfaction from them inflicting pain to her


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In short bolo na ki...Anyay ko sehna Anyay hota hai...! 😆
Indira must realize this soon.😭
Itna bada post likh dala...😆




Yes, this comment was one of my worst. 😭😭

I just could not get what I wanted to say in succinct and powerful manner. The comment was horribly written

I had to write t twice and still it was badly expressed.😭😭

I hang my head in shame

J
jjkg thumbnail
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Posted: 13 years ago
#12
I guess the root of my objection to the thoughts in this thread is that
  • people are equating tragedies and struggles with self inflicted pain
  • equating happiness with growth that comes with pain
  • Indira's pain with Rati's acting

If Rish had been hit by a car, it would have been an act of fate of fate and she would have to bear the painful consequences. What happened to Rishi is a willful act of sabotaging her happiness by her family..or... papa diwan (remote chance). This is a self inflicted wound.


Until Indira breaks her dependency on her family, she will never attain personal happiness and one day it will be too late


Also, this whole notion that she needs more pain to truly have lasting happiness. Has she not had enough pain to last a lifetime, that she needs more?

Edited by jjkg - 13 years ago
Zen1 thumbnail
Posted: 13 years ago
#13

Originally posted by: jjkg

I guess the root of my objection to the thoughts in this thread is that

    people are equating tragedies and struggles with self inflicted pain equating happiness with growth that comes with pain
  • Indira's pain with Rati's acting

If Rish had been hit by a car, it would have been an act of fate of fate and she would have to bear the painful consequences. What happened to Rishi is a willful act of sabotaging her happiness by her family..or... papa diwan (remote chance). This is a self inflicted wound.


Until Indira breaks her dependency on her family, she will never attain personal happiness and one day it will be too late


Also, this whole notion that she needs more pain to truly have lasting happiness. Has she not had enough pain to last a lifetime, that she needs more?

I understand your point of view that because Indira has chosen to stay with her family; accepting all the shortcomings of an uncaring and unloving family she is perpetuating her own unhappiness and pain. This you regard as the root problem and a barrier to Indira's and Rishi's future happiness. Your solution to this would be for Indira to start her new life with her husband and leave her family to their own means.

The reason Indira doesn't leave is because Indira loves her family unconditionally. Indira has invested her life to have a sense of belonging (perhaps a character flaw). Her family is the centre of her world and she cannot easily relinquish her sense of duty and resposibility.This is part of "Indira's struggle" she is on a learning curve and is going through these difficulties and pain to make that transition to have a different, happier life.

In an ideal scenario - Indira has Rishi by her side and her family. This is achieved by both Rishi and Indira accepting to live with the family situation and building their happiness within that frame work- which they were prepared to do before the kidnapping.

Alternatively Indira comes to the end of her struggles and as you say "break her dependency on her family" and leave them and start a new life with Rishi.

jjkg thumbnail
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Posted: 13 years ago
#14

Originally posted by: Zen1

I understand your point of view that because Indira has chosen to stay with her family; accepting all the shortcomings of an uncaring and unloving family she is perpetuating her own unhappiness and pain. This you regard as the root problem and a barrier to Indira's and Rishi's future happiness. Your solution to this would be for Indira to start her new life with her husband and leave her family to their own means.

The reason Indira doesn't leave is because Indira loves her family unconditionally. Indira has invested her life to have a sense of belonging (perhaps a character flaw). Her family is the centre of her world and she cannot easily relinquish her sense of duty and resposibility.This is part of "Indira's struggle" she is on a learning curve and is going through these difficulties and pain to make that transition to have a different, happier life.

In an ideal scenario - Indira has Rishi by her side and her family. This is achieved by both Rishi and Indira accepting to live with the family situation and building their happiness within that frame work- which they were prepared to do before the kidnapping.

Alternatively Indira comes to the end of her struggles and as you say "break her dependency on her family" and leave them and start a new life with Rishi.


Thanks Zen for wonderful response. I have a slightly different take

1. I do not think the ideal scenario will in any way be happy for Indira and Rishi or their future children. It is because at every step of the way, the family will make Rishi and Indira miserable with their selfish needs, their insecurities, their jealousies etc. We had a preview of that in how Munna and his wife behaved at the hospital. Even a simple conversation between Rishi and Indira was frowned upon.

Can you imagine what will happen in future - Rishi wants to take Indira out, family objects; he buys a saree for her, family objects; they want to invest in something, family objects,; they want to have a baby family objects etc...because Indira's life with Rishi is the biggest threat to them. They will never let them be happy while they count on Indira to bring in the money for their needs and addictions


2. What is happening in Sharma family cannot be labelled as love, but unhealthy dependence. A psychiatrist will have to expend extra-ordinary effort to untangle unhealthy dependencies in the family. My sole beef with Indira is that she encourages it, rather than allowing them to stand on their own two feet.

Each one of them (except Vidith presently) is a healthy, able bodied adult who can support himself. It is not love when you indirectly enable Munna to continue down the "loafer" , irresponsible path he is on. His wife along with her mother can do lots of work at home that bring in money like cloth sewing, embroidery etc. Women all over support themselves when their husbands do not provide them. Mandira can start home tutions, or a home based beauty parlor. Her dad has his shop.

Indira has to learn how to cut their apron strings. We do it with our own kids when they turn out to be on self-destructive paths. Until the apron strings are cut, there will be no change in their behavior as there is no incentive or force forcing them to change. This is what is called tough love

Indira's support for her family at the expense of her happiness would have been understandable if the family was unable to support themselves, like Munna dying etc.

What rankles me much is that they cannot survive without Indira, but they abuse her mercilessly even on her small needs😡


3. My solution was never for her to abandon her family but embark on a project to let her family stand on its own
I have been screaming off the rooftops on this issue since I started watching HD this year. My solution has always been that Indira has to start letting go of the control of the family, allow them to make their mistakes as they attempt to stand on their own two feet, encourage them, inspire them, be tolerant, encourage their confidences etc...all in the process of letting them face their futures by themselves. I wrote v long posts on this a while ago.

She and Rishi should not have either married so hastily, or had good planning on how to deal with her family. Some sort of a project should have been planned with well defined timelines, e.g. Mandira's career or her marriage, Munna a job, etc. A serious conversation should have been had with her family which would have defined lines that Sharma's cannot cross or both Indira and Rishi would leave.



4. For Indira and Rishi to gain any happiness, even momentary happiness, it is crucial that she changes and her family changes. Otherwise both their lives will be ruined



5 Indira did leave her family once when she left for Rishikesh. When push comes to shove and certain lines are crossed, Indira was able to leave them to sink or swim on their own.

Indira is a fighter. She should also fight her family to protect the small ray of light that has entered her life, or it will be extingushed soon leaving both Rishi and her broken



6. I really have a hard time using the word "family" or "love" with respect to Sharmas and Indira. There as rarely been an instance where we see love of the family for her. That horrible scene where Indira comes late from work and no one opens the door for her is emblematic. The family dynamics resemble the "battered woman syndrome" a lot
Edited by jjkg - 13 years ago
jjkg thumbnail
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Posted: 13 years ago
#15
I guess there is another equivalence going on that I do not quite buy.

It is the equating Indira's support of her family with a man/woman supporting a family where he/she has been provided unique opportunities (education, sent abroad, starting a business) and the provision is based on the condition that he/she will support the family so that they can come out of poverty.

This is a very common story. My parents story is very similar where he was sent abroad to make his family's fortune. His family was land rich, but cash poor. He really suffered a lot, sleeping on buses, eating nothing and sending his paychecks back home so that his family could buy tractors, thrashing machines tubewells etc to make the land productive ( circa 1950s/60s). He was in Africa and in those times there were very few amenities. He once made a request to his family in India to send him some achar/pickles so that he would not have to eat dry roti/bread. But they refused that request.

Though my dad was married and he had a baby daughter (my sis), his family refused to send them to Africa to be with him because they were "hostages", so to speak. If my father was reunited with his own family, then what incentive would he have to keep sending his money over.

My mum could not even write a letter to him that was not sanctioned by her in-laws and not read by them. My mother would have to wait for weeks before she was allowed to read a letter from my father that the family had received weeks ago. My parents were separated for ten years and my mum+Sis were only allowed to go when there was huge pressure on the family by friends and relatives that enough is enough.

My father was not even allowed to have a bank account. It was only when I was born much later that my father was forced to start thinking of his own family and ways to ensure their future.


And my father's family is by no way "mean" or "abusive". They were god fearing people. My dad's younger brother was an able bodied, good human being. But he felt that it was due that my father sends money to enrich the land holdings as well as his status in the society. That he should work hard and do it by himself was not even a thought that entered his mind.


When my father cut the apron strings, there was a lot of rancour. Their still is (and my father is now in his late 70s). But it was a necessary step. Even after cutting, there was always a big bruhaha at every major/minor event of our lives e.g. why did my father put his kids into an expensive school, why did my dad buy a plot, why is not under my uncle's name etc etc.


In Indira's case, she was never given any opportunities to make a case for quid pro quo. A calamity struck their family when their father left. But instead of 2 elder brothers and one elder sis-in-law who were able bodied adults, it was left to a 17 year old to support them all. In return for even basic love, forget acknowledgement and appreciation, she is insulted, abused, sent to jail to get tortured etc.


My father's case can be argued as "love" but not Indira's. Hers is abuse and her enabling it
Edited by jjkg - 13 years ago
adinats07 thumbnail
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Posted: 13 years ago
#16
I would like to add only few lines. . we have to keep each and every one independent in our life.. that should be our or our parents aim.. the reason being.. "Death is the only reality in this world".. if i or the person who is responsible for his or her family and in the near future the person is not there there is no savings then what. Dont support the wrong.. correct them if possible but do not support and as said charity or learnigs begins at home.
Edited by adinats07 - 13 years ago
-Rinky- thumbnail
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Posted: 13 years ago
#17
Thank you for the reply guys. Well one thing the context of this topic was not about Indira inflicting pain on herself but the situations where she is...the problems will chance itself on her...

She is no sage, she would not know how to deal with every problem, every human who creates problems for her. She would only know how to face them to the best of her abillty. Its not her choice its her fate.

In real life we hardly come across situations where things are hunky dory all the time. So for Indira too, taking her life into consideration, she would probably never be gifted a peaceful and happy life soon...😛
PD_forums thumbnail
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Posted: 13 years ago
#18
well written dear 👏

Pain is necessary to know the value of happiness in life... happiness we get after suffering pain is remarkable... like success after failure...


SweetiShobhy thumbnail
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Posted: 13 years ago
#19
thats soo true what u said it wouldnt have made sense if Indira had just got all her happiness at one snap ...I hope to see soon though Indira & Rishi back together again 👏

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