Wisdom Knows No Age - Page 4

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misty85 thumbnail
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Posted: 13 years ago
#31

Originally posted by: asterixandme

Hi all. I am Anjana, a silent reader of this forum. I got interested in HD because it seemed quite unlike the other shows on telly right now. It seemed to tell a story. Sadly, that is now beginning to change. Its perhaps too much pressure to create something meaningful on a daily basis. At some point, I guess, the production house starts "churning out" episodes instead of "creating" them.

Shridevi, Nels, PaNa4ever, and iolahardy...I never miss reading your posts. Love them for the insight they offer 😊

@Shridevi...a remark in your post today prompted me to respond. You said that we didn't have any interactions with Sameer other than through Rishi's eyes. I beg to differ slightly. We were offered glimpses throughout -- not of this psychotic side of him, but a mean side of him. And none of them had anything to do with Rishi/Ricky.

In his first interaction with Indira, when she asks him for a lift, he just assumes that she's a call girl. What kind of man thinks that way of a lady he doesn't even know? Then there was the time he sent goons to her house. These were minor indications of the type of guy he is. Not the inherent miser as people loved to joke about, but the inherent small-mindedness in his character. Nothing is beneath him. But yes, there was no indication that he could overstep boundaries in the manner that he did with Indira in her own house. That was a side of him that was hard to imagine. And that turn of his character, has in my opinion, reduced HD to a run-of-the-mill story (if there is one any more). Was there no other way to highlight the differences between Ricky and Sameer?

That said, I love the performances. Each of them (including Kutumb!) And I sincerely hope that somewhere along the way, the story makes a comeback. And I also love the way you guys offer sanity in a forum that's become a madhouse in recent times. Keep writing 😃


From the beginning it has been indicated that Sam is kind of a person who forcefully takes away things if he can not get them by reasoning... Ricky -sam convo regarding forceful acquisition of house indicated this... now same thing is happening in Indu's case... he has tried every trick to get her but failed... his obsession is growing more with his failures...
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Posted: 13 years ago
#32

Originally posted by: asterixandme

Hi all. I am Anjana, a silent reader of this forum. I got interested in HD because it seemed quite unlike the other shows on telly right now. It seemed to tell a story. Sadly, that is now beginning to change. Its perhaps too much pressure to create something meaningful on a daily basis. At some point, I guess, the production house starts "churning out" episodes instead of "creating" them.

Shridevi, Nels, PaNa4ever, and iolahardy...I never miss reading your posts. Love them for the insight they offer 😊

@Shridevi...a remark in your post today prompted me to respond. You said that we didn't have any interactions with Sameer other than through Rishi's eyes. I beg to differ slightly. We were offered glimpses throughout -- not of this psychotic side of him, but a mean side of him. And none of them had anything to do with Rishi/Ricky.

And I also love the way you guys offer sanity in a forum that's become a madhouse in recent times. Keep writing 😃


Anjana,

Welcome to posting! thanks for your kind words. I am up even at this hour...working on something and so I could catch this and ...couldn;t wait to reply to such an appreciation.

What you say is true. If we have to have 5 day per week comedy or good drama for HD, then it is quite difficult. First satire is something applying pressure on the brain. No one likes that from an idiot box especially in India where every one got used to sentimental saas bahu stories or romantic stories. Comedy can be created but then it will be something else other than romantic comedy. The creatives have a lot of pressure from the broadcasters, target audience and competition. Personally I am willing to relax my standards of perfection for the creatives as long as they adhere to being different.

Now coming to Sameer and what I was saying. I was commenting as "Do we know him for real" in response to TFL's post (hope you read the post) where the larger comment was characters were being killed to promote the show. In this context, I was defending the creatives by saying that no character has been killed. To me character killing would have happened had I known Sameer to be something nice, good person that we got to see from early on in the show. But the fact is Sameer was introduced on Rishi's account and his negative traits are visible from day 1. So no killing at all. Same logic applied for RIshi or RIcky Diwan, We hardly know the Ricky Diwan and Rishi was just a mask.

Shridevi

Edited by shridevigaddam - 13 years ago
The.Lannister thumbnail
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Posted: 13 years ago
#33
@ Anjana: Thank u very much 😊 Please do post ur views as well. Fresh & balanced perspectives r so refreshing to read.

@ Nels: it cud be that wenever RK is face to face with sam he turns into a psycho like sam himself...n maybe this is wat caused RK to leave home...we all have a bit of the animal instinct in us...the only difference between normal & psychopaths then is that the normal guys learn to control their animal instincts...n maybe dis is wat RK managed when he fled the diwans! today being confronted with this devil from the past...he again finds himself in the same old situation...feeling helpless(as indu wont let him help)...n hence resorts to warning indu by provoking such a strong reaction from sam. but all things said...i would like it if sam is the brawns n ricky is the brains of this story. till date all his actions have had hidden meanings & i have loved deciphering them. i dont want him doing that 'eent ka jawan patthar se' stuff literally. i want to see ricky as a cool, focused guy who wins becoz of his sheer brilliance. to make rishi brilliant writers ko thoda mehnat karna padega...such things r not easy to show but when shown they are just WOW!

@ Shri: i agree with the survival of the fittest part. to beat sam he needs to get equally ruthless & predatory...but then as i have written above a brainy guy can be equally ruthless though in a more classy way. n i totally agree that the entire cartoon sequence was poorly handled. the cartoon was a mans way of apologizing to his love. he had invested his time, talent & money into it. its not easy to publicly apologize for a wrong doing but instead of focusing on the emotions they focused on the useless things like the entire delhi reading the same paper at the same time & all the others u have already mentioned. they cud have shown that indu understood the emotions that went behind the making of the cartoon but was still not in a mood to forgive. dat wud have been understandable. such forced comedy often can render any situation & any emotion meaningless. thats the biggest tragedy in HD at the moment. true heartfelt emotions r allowed to be overshadowed by comedy. Comedy shud be used with extreme caution otherwise it can make characters seem insensitive.

about Sam: all i wud like to say is the trouble with grabbing a tiger by the tail is that sooner or later you have to let go. indu is gonna pay heavily for her actions.
asterixandme thumbnail
Posted: 13 years ago
#34
@Shridevi Oh yes! Now that you put it this way, your point is much clearer. I did read TFLs post, which was bang on for that episode. After watching Indira in the Feb 22 episode, I feel, though, that wisdom seems to be out of the window. I admit she is going through a great deal of emotional turmoil, but I'm not sure anything can justify insulting the owner of a business empire in front of his staff. It's not about Indira being Hitler or not; its also not about self-preservation. It's just about being practical and sensitive at some level. This harks back to the point you had made in an earlier post about when it is rational to be Hitler. This time, clearly, the Hitlergiri was reckless and overdone.

@iolahardy I always felt that this bond (Indira - Rishi) had a lot of potential. I wish they had given it more time and explored it further. These two convey a lot without being verbose. And that's beautiful. Even now, I am sure that in an attempt to finish this marriage track in the self-imposed two-week deadline, an opportunity to bring out the hidden side of both will be lost. Not to mention Sameer's insane antics and the needless drama.
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Posted: 13 years ago
#35
Anjana, Shruti and Nels,

I got to know from my other forum buddies that Zee Channel has a penchant for married protagonists. Is that true ? I mean when I saw as the competitor of Doordarshan in 1991, it was showing stories of married women having extra-marital affairs. So has it continued even now ?The people were saying the channel doesn't rest until the protagonists are shown in some kind of marital contract and then later the story can progress in any way. It is like treading the safe way of sticking to virtuosity and even if the vices are shown in the form of digressions, it becomes double edged plots: 1) entertainment, a deviation from the obvious 2) forgiveness and learning in the sense vice is beaten by the virtue-- that proverb which I have forgotten both in Hindi and English ...bhatka hua ghar wapas aa jaye use maaf karte hain or galti nahi kehte ...something like that.
This trick is safe for TRPs. Seems ZEE was indulging in this culture for too long and now suddenly their low TRPs make them realize they need to show something else like SP and Sony. But may be old habits die hard...

If the above is true, then it is justified the way the creatives showed the contractual binding and yet kept them seperate.

And I do believe that creatives want us to enjoy the show with all its foibles of its characters like our Hitler Didi + Indira Sharma + Sharma family + Indira lovers + Indira haters.

22nd Feb Episode:
Did you notice, how not one character was left unexposed to their flaws today and how they were fighting at their best ?
HD in Sameer's office. Let's me not start on that. We all know.

Indira Sharma: realizes her bragging about returning money to Sameer. That she is physically not capable of fighting the goons even if it was for self-defence. She needs help,

Kutumb Sharma: Her weakness is her husband.😳

Jhumpa Sharma: All her schemes being wasted. Indira is just too much her. She has to do something...🤔

Inder Sharma: Enjoyed the Keys scene. Decision-making was easy: Paapi Pet ka sawaal jo tha.😎

Mandira Sharma: Ready to net Ricky Diwan. It was nice to watch Ricky's and Sunaina expressions at her progression. And the parents just looking at the daughter. 👏

Sunaina: She didn't show any today...but otherwise it is her hunger 😆

Rishi: His weakness is being Ricky Diwaan💔

Sameer Diwan: Did you see the psycho cuddling close to his mommy and saying "Mummy mujhe ye ladki chahiye..." Stomping his foot!! where is the emoticon???

Simi Diwan: Well I have not seen any weakness, but a question? Why does this mommy instead of comforting her son, why does she need comforting ? What gesture is that when she rests her head against her son's bosom. This is second time now..I wonder 😕

Edited by shridevigaddam - 13 years ago
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Posted: 13 years ago
#36
Ohhh gosh. I haven't watched any of the episodes this week yet...Honestly, after reading a few of the more recent responses in this thread, I'm even more afraid of what I'm going to encounter...This stuff is probably what Sumit was talking about when he said he was going to be shooting for "intense twists." It's scary just reading about this stuff!
-Mehnaaz- thumbnail
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Posted: 13 years ago
#37


Nel 😳, Sridevi 😳 and the rest of the Hd members for your excellent analysis and discussions. ⭐️

Keep up the excellent work 👍🏼 👏

I wish I was not behind in watching 😔 so I could be a part of discussions like this one. 😳 but I don't think I could write like you all 😆

I thought I would have got a chance of commenting my views but now I am 2 days behind as of yesterday. 😔

The superman 😍 episode is the last I seen. I also felt it was not the highlight of the episode. It was more of an Inshi highlight. 😳

Sameer's behaviour 😲 wow that freaked me out 😲 he reminded me of Arbaaz Khan's character in Daraar. Sorry don't mean to compare it is just that his "taking something by force attitude" reminded me of that movie.

Not sure if I could add anything of importance to your discussion as most parts are covered.

I really liked one thing also in that episode apart from Radhe, Ishaan and Pandey. I have mentioned it in another post.

Indira's 😳 realisation of her behaviour with her staff. She realised she needs to calm down. Indira 😳 finds it difficult to apologise to anyone and the fact that they show her thinking this made me very happy.

I think self-realisation is an excellent quality 👍🏼

Once again a big thank you to you all. 😳 I will continue to read, enjoy and like your posts 😳

Keep up the amazing work. ⭐️

And have a wonderful day 😳

Mehnaaz 😳


Edited by -Mehnaaz- - 13 years ago
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Posted: 13 years ago
#38
I'm all caught up with last week's episodes!
There were plenty of things that made me cringe, but not because I feel any character is being butchered. In fact, I'm more excited to see how this turns out because it's like a psychological struggle now between Indira's anger and her feelings. She obviously loves Ricky, but since he didn't tell her the truth about his identity, she feels broken and betrayed. Her feelings can't be ignored, though!
Sameer Diwan's obsessive nature is scaring me, especially after the last few episodes. The "Durga-rakshas" analogy put forth by Amma and Ricky was one that I absolutely loved...Ricky's fear for Indira's well-being and his desire to protect her from harm is completely natural...And if Amma's comment about Indira's Durga-roop is true, then I'd very much like to see this.
A few details that stood out for me and effectively saved the episodes from being dismissed in my mind...
Feb 20th:
- Indira watching as Rishi passes by her cabin and leaves...
- Her anguish and frustration causes her to lash out at everyone, regardless of whether they had anything to do with her recent heartbreak...She's been incredibly affected by the revelation of "Rishi's" true identity and her extreme anger hints at how severe the impact of the blow has been.
- Rishi's frustration at not being able to stay near Indira, and his decision to stay with Amma
- "Barsaati ka darwaaza kaise khula hai?" and then the immediate assumption, a breathless, "Woh aaya hai?!"
I, for one, loved that Indira automatically assumes that Ricky has returned despite being kicked out of the house...And she rushes upstairs frantically to throw barbs at him for his "himmat" at coming back...
- The dreaded moment now...was salvaged by Rati's expressions. The fire in Indira's eyes and voice, her anger at Sameer's presence...The fear that flashes across her face as he corners her against the wardrobe and she struggles to resist him. That scene reminded me of the time Ricky pinned Indira against the wardrobe as well and confessed that he loved her...Her response then was one where Ricky's words rendered her temporarily speechless and she didn't resist him at all, despite her initial fear at their proximity. In this scene with Sameer, though, Indira's fear of being touched by him can be seen clearly in the way she shrinks away from him, cries out, and reacts angrily when he does touch her face (in contrast to the gentle way Ricky touched her face in that earlier scene).
I honestly think this scene was meant to show the contrast between Sameer and Ricky. The exact same setting, similar intentions (each asked Indira to marry him), different mannerisms and different responses on Indira's behalf. Quite a masterstroke from that perspective, actually! When Sameer mentioned Ricky's love being false and later tried to compare himself to Ricky while making Ricky seem unsuitable for Indira, she didn't like that...
But then when she does see Ricky again, at the end of the episode, her anger returns again and she's back to directing that anger towards him instead of worrying about the fact that Sameer is still there. She could have run away (I like that she ultimately was able to push Sameer away from her, even if he was distracted by Ricky's toy monkey) but she didn't. Why? Was it because Ricky was there?
Feb 21st:
- "Lagta hai yeh Sam...khud ki baat kar raha hai." Exactly! *shakes head* And we can see this already, can't we? If only Indira took Ricky's words seriously...Her anger is proving to be a danger to her own well-being now.
- Ricky inciting Sameer to harm him...Trying to show Sameer's latent rakshas-roop. That was odd based on what we've seen of "Rishi" but we know that Sameer is dangerous, and this was yet another moment to demonstrate that.
- In spite of her anger at Ricky hiding his identity from her, as soon as Sameer hits Ricky with the rod, she forgets herself and her anger and yells, "RISHI!" LOVED that part. Perhaps her desperation to pull Sameer away from Ricky stemmed from her feelings for Ricky that she is trying to suppress but can't control at times like this, when he's in danger - she drags Sameer away, could have shouted at Ricky, but instead yelled at Sameer to get out of her house.
- Ricky's reaction to Indira falling down the stairs - a mirrored reaction to her yelling out his name when he was the victim of Sameer's temper...
- Sameer's silent interaction with Ricky, saying, "Look, you're not the one holding her...I am." Ugh. It's obvious that Indira is some sort of prize or trophy for him, something worth pursuing as long as she resists him and runs out of his reach...
- Indira realizing that it wasn't Ricky supporting her, but the other brother who had just tried to force himself upon her...And her outrage: "Tumhaari HIMMAT kaisi hui mujhe chhoone ki bhi?!"
- That story about the neighbor's billi. Scary. And even more frightening because of Sameer's analogy of Indira being a 'jungli billi'.
- Ricky catching Indira before she could fall down the stairs again, their little moment of peace before Indira's "I'm angry at him, I don't love him" logic takes over, and Ricky's "Pyaar se kahiye..." And they're back to square one - nice way to connect those earlier moments with this one! - except that Indira does love Ricky...She's just too angry to accept it.
Wow, looks like there were a lot more details than I thought...I may be back with more from the rest of the episodes later if there's anyone around to read them, LOL.
-Rinky- thumbnail
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Posted: 13 years ago
#39
beautifully put Borna...I can say you are one of the most balanced writers of the forum...you always see from the perspective of every party involved...😳

as for the billi part...i had noticed that too...forgot to mention...btw dont u think the HD cvs have a penchant for the movie Don? har dialogue wohi se utha rahe hai...😆

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Posted: 13 years ago
#40
Thanks so much for taking the time to read and comment, Rinky! I really appreciate it, since I ended up watching the episodes so late.
You really think I'm a balanced writer? I'm flattered that you think so. There are probably more writers/viewers who are more balanced or objective than I am when it comes to this show...I end up looking for details/nuances that show how characters are feeling based on their dialogues or responses to other characters. I automatically approach shows/movies like this...
Based on what has been shown in HD so far, that is what I could see in the episodes. I was pleasantly surprised by the silver lining in most of those scenes. The hidden positives in Indira's reactions to the situations with Sameer in the episodes I mentioned in my post were a major plus point and they showed just how much Indira loves her ex-tenant, regardless of what his name is and who his relations are.
I think Rati brought out Indira's fear very well. We all expect her to be strong at all times, but she's just as vulnerable emotionally as any other girl who has fallen in love and feels heartbroken...I don't see how that's a bad thing. If anything, it makes me identify with Indira even more.
From what I could see, Indira's discomfort with Sameer's aggressive manner and physical proximity really scared her...She kept struggling to free herself. In contrast, even when Ricky backed her up against the wardrobe, he did so in a more gentle manner (because his intention was never to hurt her or coerce her into accepting him) and despite Indira's tendency to feel awkward and get angry at antics that involve physical proximity, with Ricky/Rishi, it was different. Her response to him was different...She may have felt uncomfortable with how close he was to her, but she wasn't anywhere near as scared or threatened by his closeness as she was when Sameer cornered her. Ricky touched her emotionally, and that's why when he moved those loose strands of hair away from her face, she didn't fully realize what was happening until a few seconds later and she didn't protest, either...When Sameer touches her, on the other hand, she immediately pushes his hand away and tries to get out of his grasp. I found it fascinating how Indira responded to those two men...The one she loves and who loves her versus the one who she abhors and who wants to possess her. I just can't see that February 20th scene in any other way now that I've found it to be a juxtaposition. It says a lot in favor of Indira's character and personality, too...

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