Harry a Horcrux: Theory Debunked - Page 2

Originally posted by: coolniyu

hey bhaggu ur rite sam 😆 sry i dint read d theory properly 😆 why do i always make scha fool of myself 😭
n ac2li ysh crouch did use two wans,he touched d tip of his wand to harrys wand n said "PI"..atleast i think he did 😕 rite :-s ?
n hey sareeta nice post yaar 😳 i agree wit both the snake thing n voldemort-revival n all..
bt i still donno wht to think 😆 thr r so mny proofs fr both sides 😭
JULY 21 GET HERE FAST WILL U 😡😆

Aww, thanks, yeah , the reasons put up in the main post too lead me to believe Harry aint a horcruz, but the 2 reasons that came to my mind , when I was reading the post also give me a strong reason to believe Harry might be the eight one, and none of them realize it as yet!

Yeah too proofs and also missing links which the last book is gonna finally fill in... July 21st ... oh dear seems far away eh?!! 😊

Originally posted by: sareeta

July 21st ... oh dear seems far away eh?!! 😊

You bet....

Though I'm one of the very few who's feeling EXTREMELY sad that the series is ending,atleast for the time being.😭.I only hope Harry or none of his peers die

Originally posted by: sareeta

Secondly, in the fourth book, where Voldermort revives and comes back, Harry's blood is taken , to revive him and give him form. Voldermort only confirms this , which we are given an inkling to in the description of the dream of Harry, where the caretaker is killed.. and Voldermort does say to Wormtail, the boy is important and that he is needed for this, when Barty Crouch Jr comes in and says he would get the boy!

So it does appear that a part of Voldermort does reside in Harry , which is why Voldermort said , it was important for the boy to be there... for him to revive his form. But he himself may not be aware the Harry himself is a horcrux, which had he known, he could have jus as well revived himself by killing him...

Originally posted by: ammmu

Great points everyone 👏

Sareeta ji, lovely post, and am going to reply to one of urs since it got me thinking as well..



But Voldie only needed Harry's blood because Harry is his only left enemy... Harry is the one Voldemort could not kill in the beginning. and in order for Voldie to revive, if im not mistaken, is to have some blood from the "foe", like he said, and clearly, because of the prophecy, Harry is Voldemort's only left foe. Even when DD was alive (God it hurts to say that! 😭 ), he was not Voldemort's enemy, just a threat because he protected Harry and because of DD being so powerful.

so once again, I don't think harry is a Horcrux. He needs to feel a lot more, do a lot more, and have something inside of him to be a Horcrux. I don't think Voldemort could have done it without realising, as you must kill to acquire a Horcrux and clearly, Voldie doesn't make that big of a mistake....

Ammmu Ji, thank you for pointing out that one... yeah, Voldy does mention blood of foe , and him being important and well your reasoning is undeniably very strong, since yeah Harry is the foe , for he left VOldermort ,a mere ghost on the fateful day, when fate seemed to have turned its back on Voldy! and ofcourse the prophecy that has been the cause for it all!

As for your point , that I have highlighted, I wanted to chip in my thoughts on that one, you've clearly got me thinking at lightening speed now...

Correct me if I am wrong , but the process of creating a horcrux was never outlined in the books, and it only mentioned that the horcrux would contain a part of the soul, the creator tears apart himself, and to tear apart , he must have performed the most evil act and that is well Killing a life...

So as per the books, a horcrux is something that contains a part of soul...or so we are lead to believe in the books, correct me if I got that one wrong....

So here is my take:

On the fateful day, Voldermort was to perform the evil act yet again, to kill Harry , as Voldy realized the bit abt the prophecy, and in the attempt to kill Harry, failed, and the attempt(for Voldy did use the curse, the unforgivable curse) must have rendered/ torn a part of him(Voldy) , a part of his mutilated soul, which was passed onto Harry... which would possibly be the explanation of the scar...

Voldy did not create a horcrux knowlingly , but if my above observation is indeed true, then , Harry according to defition of a horcrux is one himself, for Voldermort, the eight one, albeit!

And Voldermort is as ignorant abt it as Harry is, for all that transpired on the fateful , remains inexplicable to the wizarding world , for only Harry Potter survived the Killing curse, and perhaps , no one ever had created seven horcruxes before as Voldy did, to have a mutilated soul left, after the inconceivable gory acts! And perhaps the dark lord himself , was not aware of the entire aspect of how horcruxes could be created during an evil act, jus as he overlooked the old magic that Lily Potter used to save her son! Quite plausible I'd say... Arrogance such as what the Dark Lord possesses, often renders people, careless ...

As an afterthought, Voldy when he tried to kill Harry , a mutilated himself, with his act of killing harry ( rendered a failure), led his soul being torn apart, leaving behind a part of the soul so insignificant that it remained a mere spirit without form , for the other piece was transferred inadvertantly to Harry , which he survived, so it may seem, that Killing curse never failed, but Voldermort inadvertantly brought back dead Harry to Life which is impossible, or rather the act of the Voldy's mutilated soul peice entering Harry was a simultaneous act ... coz a part of him , was transferred into Harry's body, which left Harry alive and did not kill him..... which could a plausible reason for the Scar on Harry... a sign of Voldermort residing in him...for the scar has always been a way , that connected Harry to Voldermort...in ways more than obvious... OK, I have gone way ahead there , but I still believe that to be a highly plausible scene... that transpired on the fateful day!

Let me know your thoughts !😊

Correct me if I am wrong , but the process of creating a horcrux was never outlined in the books, and it only mentioned that the horcrux would contain a part of the soul, the creator tears apart himself, and to tear apart , he must have performed the most evil act and that is well Killing a life...

Yap, you are right, the only thing we know is that you have to perform the act of killing someone, which tears your soul which is what Voldie wanted to do.... so you are right, we really dunno the process actually of doing it, we just know the basic facts....

On the fateful day, Voldermort was to perform the evil act yet again, to kill Harry , as Voldy realized the bit abt the prophecy, and in the attempt to kill Harry, failed, and the attempt(for Voldy did use the curse, the unforgivable curse) must have rendered/ torn a part of him(Voldy) , a part of his mutilated soul, which was passed onto Harry... which would possibly be the explanation of the scar...

Voldy did not create a horcrux knowlingly , but if my above observation is indeed true, then , Harry according to defition of a horcrux is one himself, for Voldermort, the eight one, albeit!

But we do know this, that when Voldemort performed Avada Kedavra and it backfired, the result of that was his scar.... I don't think it can be a Horcrux because Voldemort did not kill (he killed Lily and James yes, but read my next part), therefore he didn't tear his soul...... he only did so by killing Lily and James, and he has got Horcruxes from those acts. At the time of trying to kill Harry, correct me if I'm wrong, weren't Lily and James dead? or was Lily still defending harry? not sure, but I think they were both dead, so at the time of Voldie trying to kill Harry, he couldn't have torn his soul because he didn't kill.... does this make sense?😛

And Voldermort is as ignorant abt it as Harry is, for all that transpired on the fateful , remains inexplicable to the wizarding world , for only Harry Potter survived the Killing curse, and perhaps , no one ever had created seven horcruxes before as Voldy did, to have a mutilated soul left, after the inconceivable gory acts! And perhaps the dark lord himself , was not aware of the entire aspect of how horcruxes could be created during an evil act, jus as he overlooked the old magic that Lily Potter used to save her son! Quite plausible I'd say... Arrogance such as what the Dark Lord possesses, often renders people, careless ...

Of course, Voldemort is careless himself, like DD said, he only thinks magic is the most powerful key, which we know it is not... so yes, Voldie over looks those important factors.... but to not be aware of making a Horcrux into Harry... Like I said before, I just think that Harry needs to feel more of Voldie's thoughts if he was the eighth Horcrux. And even if this is true about the Horcrux, and both are unaware of it, that doesn't mean that Harry won't be hearing and feeling Voldie's thoughts... he can only hear a bit through his scar....

Lovely points Sareeta ji !😃

Originally posted by: ammmu

But we do know this, that when Voldemort performed Avada Kedavra and it backfired, the result of that was his scar.... I don't think it can be a Horcrux because Voldemort did not kill (he killed Lily and James yes, but read my next part), therefore he didn't tear his soul...... he only did so by killing Lily and James, and he has got Horcruxes from those acts. At the time of trying to kill Harry, correct me if I'm wrong, weren't Lily and James dead? or was Lily still defending harry? not sure, but I think they were both dead, so at the time of Voldie trying to kill Harry, he couldn't have torn his soul because he didn't kill.... does this make sense?😛

Ammmu, I understand from your reasoning that you believe that only Voldy himself would have to tear his soul using magic and that the soul cannot destroyed during an act without magic? Well , with due respect, contrary to that , I believe, that a soul is mutilated and torn everytime the gory act of killing is done... and Voldermort had torn his soul already, into 7 different horcruxs , as we are told in the 6th book , which leaves a mutilated, ineffective piece of his soul in his body that renders the ghastly appearence to the Dark Lord and the act of killing Harry , only possibly mutilated the soul beyond resurrection that rendered the Dark Lord formless...

As for James and Lily potter, I believe they were dead , already... when Voldy tried to kill Harry!

Of course, Voldemort is careless himself, like DD said, he only thinks magic is the most powerful key, which we know it is not... so yes, Voldie over looks those important factors.... but to not be aware of making a Horcrux into Harry... Like I said before, I just think that Harry needs to feel more of Voldie's thoughts if he was the eighth Horcrux. And even if this is true about the Horcrux, and both are unaware of it, that doesn't mean that Harry won't be hearing and feeling Voldie's thoughts... he can only hear a bit through his scar....

I believe that Harry has been feeling the emotions and reading into the mind of Voldermort , strongly than ever before...because the Dark Lord , after his resurrection in the 4th book has been more powerful so to say? The way Harry connects to Voldy in the 5th and 6th books is almost a revealtion into how close or connected he is to Voldy and despite the Occlumency classes with Snape, Harry does see and feel Voldy, which only leads me to believe that possibly Voldy's being is a part of Harry , which possesses him... and may be Occlumency was not really able to control that possession.... coz Occlumency can only block thoughts from the mind , not possessing a being , and Harry during one of his discussions with Prof DD, seems posssessed , which DD does notice in Harry , the flicker of pure evil in his (Harry's) eyes!!!

Your thoughts on the above? I am waiting to hear them!

Lovely points Sareeta ji !😃 - Merci , Thank you so much! I am thoroughly enjoying this discussion that has got me thinking abt the much deeper aspects of life and death as well!

Originally posted by: sareeta

So here is my take:

On the fateful day, Voldermort was to perform the evil act yet again, to kill Harry , as Voldy realized the bit abt the prophecy, and in the attempt to kill Harry, failed, and the attempt(for Voldy did use the curse, the unforgivable curse) must have rendered/ torn a part of him(Voldy) , a part of his mutilated soul, which was passed onto Harry... which would possibly be the explanation of the scar...

Voldy did not create a horcrux knowlingly , but if my above observation is indeed true, then , Harry according to defition of a horcrux is one himself, for Voldermort, the eight one, albeit!

And Voldermort is as ignorant abt it as Harry is.. And perhaps the dark lord himself , was not aware of the entire aspect of how horcruxes could be created during an evil act, jus as he overlooked the old magic that Lily Potter used to save her son! Quite plausible I'd say... Arrogance such as what the Dark Lord possesses, often renders people, careless ...

As an afterthought, Voldy when he tried to kill Harry , a mutilated himself, with his act of killing harry ( rendered a failure), led his soul being torn apart, leaving behind a part of the soul so insignificant that it remained a mere spirit without form , for the other piece was transferred inadvertantly to Harry , which he survived, so it may seem, that Killing curse never failed, but Voldermort inadvertantly brought back dead Harry to Life which is impossible, or rather the act of the Voldy's mutilated soul peice entering Harry was a simultaneous act ... coz a part of him , was transferred into Harry's body, which left Harry alive and did not kill him..... which could a plausible reason for the Scar on Harry... a sign of Voldermort residing in him...for the scar has always been a way , that connected Harry to Voldermort...in ways more than obvious... OK, I have gone way ahead there , but I still believe that to be a highly plausible scene... that transpired on the fateful day!

Let me know your thoughts !

Those were BRILLIANT points👏...The scar establishes a connection between Voldemort and Harry,and THAT's why Harry can read Voldy's mind,and vice versa...Occlumency wouldnt have helped,because Occlumency is helpful ONLY for blocking people outside one from reading one's mind...Voldemort is a part of Harry,and is inside Harry,thus Occlumency is of no use.....Maybe the connection the scar designed between Harry and Voldy isnt yet fully know to either,Harry for one knows he can read into Voldy's mind,and so does Voldy know he can use and exploit Harry.But I still dont feel both know MUCH about the mutual connection the scar instituted...That they can read each other's minds might only be the tip of the iceberg,with MOST of the connection ,which till now is unexplored......

I think there's another reason as to why Voldemort's curse backfired.It simply couldnt have been just Lily Potter's love which shielded Harry,there IS definitely a much complex and profound reasoning and logic behind Harry's surviving the attack.There still has been NO CONVINCING reasoning given as to why exactly the Avada Kedavra backfired.That Lily Potter saved her son isnt a strong enough reason.Maybe as you speculated,killing of Harry and the infusion of Voldemort's soul into Harry would have occured simultaneously.Though my reasoning is slightly different...

Snape was the one who eavesdropped on the prophecy and tattled it to Voldemort,which set Voldemort on Harry's pursuit...Now I believe Snape isnt (and wasnt) evil,but was abiding to Voldemort's commands out of sheer fear... Voldemort would have perhaps split his soul into seven different parts earlier itself(meaning,before he set out on his mission to obliterate Harry),and maybe he entrusted Snape with one of those parts,commanding Snape to imbue his soul into an object(mostly Salazar Slytherin's locket)..Maybe Snape,instead of making the locket a horcrux,transfused one part of Voldemort's soul into Baby Harry,before he proceeded to inform Voldemort about the prophecy.

MAYBE,that's the reason why Voldemort's curse backfired..Elucidating more,when Voldy was attacking Harry,he was attacking his own soul ,and THAT's why he suffered that horrendous fate..By attacking Harry,he was attacking himself...Though this theory should be rebuffed IF I had missed something about the creaton of a Horcrux,which, I admit ,I'm not too well versed about...😳 ...Thus the final battle would be all about Harry's character,whether his innate goodness(His nature which he inherited from his parents) would get the better of the adopted evil(the part of Voldy inside him)..It would be a war within Harry...And if Harry succeeds in supressing the evil inside him,and getting it out of his body and subsequently destroying it,he can live😃

Originally posted by: joie de vivre

Those were BRILLIANT points👏...The scar establishes a connection between Voldemort and Harry

I think there's another reason as to why Voldemort's curse backfired.It simply couldnt have been just Lily Potter's love which shielded Harry,there IS definitely a much complex and profound reasoning and logic behind Harry's surviving the attack.There still has been NO CONVINCING reasoning given as to why exactly the Avada Kedavra backfired.That Lily Potter saved her son isnt a strong enough reason.Maybe as you speculated,killing of Harry and the infusion of Voldemort's soul into Harry would have occured simultaneously.Though my reasoning is slightly different...

Snape was the one who eavesdropped on the prophecy and tattled it to Voldemort,which set Voldemort on Harry's pursuit...Now I believe Snape isnt (and wasnt) evil,but was abiding to Voldemort's commands out of sheer fear... Voldemort would have perhaps split his soul into seven different parts earlier itself(meaning,before he set out on his mission to obliterate Harry),and maybe he entrusted Snape with one of those parts,commanding Snape to imbue his soul into an object(mostly Salazar Slytherin's locket)..Maybe Snape,instead of making the locket a horcrux,transfused one part of Voldemort's soul into Baby Harry,before he proceeded to inform Voldemort about the prophecy.

MAYBE,that's the reason why Voldemort's curse backfired..Elucidating more,when Voldy was attacking Harry,he was attacking his own soul ,and THAT's why he suffered that horrendous fate..By attacking Harry,he was attacking himself...Though this theory should be rebuffed IF I had missed something about the creaton of a Horcrux,which, I admit ,I'm not too well versed about...😳

That is one fantastic insight into what could have possibly left the killing curse invalid when used over Harry!!! Fantastic...

But again, the concept of Voldy trusting another , with a mutilated piece of his soul is not convincing , pardon me on that , for its almost as dangerous as leaving your soul vulnerable to being destroyed. Would a Dark Lord as powerful , in full concious entrust his soul , his life... in the hands of his supporter? I do not believe so. So Snape or for that matter anyone other than Voldy himself , being entrusted to take care of it... seems impossible.

One would argue that Lucius Malfoy did possess the diary which dropped in Ginny' cauldron, but Malfoy Sr himself was unaware that it was a horcrux, but obeyed it as a mere command.

But if Snape as you suggest had to infest the piece of Voldy's soul into the locket , had to be aware of what it was to be able to do so , and if he did, would he not let Dumbledore know, considering Dumbledore trusted him beyond words, and wouldnt that leave him evil, for he has knowingly endangered the life of Harry and DD trusted Harry with Snape for the Occlumency classes...

Your thoughts?

Originally posted by: sareeta