is snape loyal to dumbledore?

rock thumbnail
Explorer Thumbnail
Posted: 19 years ago
#1
guys i feel sna[pe is and was loyal 2 hogwarts and dumbledore. wat say? i feel so coz mayb dumbledore asked snape 2 kill him and so that he did not want to die then he would become a ghost and remember he tells that he is wandless. so why was he?

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puppypower thumbnail
Posted: 19 years ago
#2
yeah maybe but then why did he scream at harry before he ran away and why didnt even try and explain to harry and them why he killed dumbledore
j y o t i thumbnail
20th Anniversary Thumbnail Voyager Thumbnail Engager Level 1 Thumbnail
Posted: 19 years ago
#3
yeh mayb
mayb snape and dumby had a plan together or sumthng
alia thumbnail
20th Anniversary Thumbnail Dazzler Thumbnail + 2
Posted: 19 years ago
#4

Originally posted by: puppypower

yeah maybe but then why did he scream at harry before he ran away and why didnt even try and explain to harry and them why he killed dumbledore

snape doesnt stop to explain cause hes got to get out of there....
harry has seen him kill dumbledore... and as v have witnessed in this book as well as the previous five books, harry has got a very short temper... doesnt seem like he wud stop and listen to snape's explanation...

plus... there were two other death eaters nearby and Draco was also there with snape, he cudnt blow his cover, now cud he??

I THROUGHLY BELIEVE snape is loyal to dumbledore and hogwarts... but knowin JKR, i cud b wrong😊

albusdumbledore thumbnail
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Posted: 19 years ago
#5
I dunno,
Snape is a very shady charecter by himself, very secretive.

To comment more on this I need to read Book 7 first

So that meansa I wont be giving my judgement till JKR gives her's. LOLZZZZ

regards,

tejas
lovelyprincesst thumbnail
19th Anniversary Thumbnail Rocker Thumbnail
Posted: 19 years ago
#6
well i dnt knw wht to beleive... if u see one side he is guilty of killing dumbledore n if u see the other side he may not be guilty of killing the headmaster of hogwarts...

so dnt knw wht to comment as i m confused maself 😕 😕 😕
rock thumbnail
Explorer Thumbnail
Posted: 19 years ago
#7
check this out 😉
Why Dumbledore Didn't Die

Call me crazy but I don't believe Dumbledore is truly dead. There are just too many loopholes to climb through, too many tangles in the web for me to put stock in his death.

First let's examine the actual death scene. Harry and Dumbledore are on the Astronomy Tower, having just returned from retrieving a (false) Horcrux. Dumbledore is in a seriously weakened state and needs a major antidote for the slow-acting poison he drank. He hears someone coming up the tower stairs and hits Harry, who is still under his invisibility cloak, with a total body bind so he can't interfere with whatever is going to happen next. Enter Draco Malfoy and a very long conversation about Draco's failed murder attempt and his plan to let death eaters into the castle. Eventually they are joined by a group of four Death Eaters who wait expectantly for Draco to finish off Dumbledore. Finally Snape arrives on the tower, does Avada Kedavra and Dumbledore falls over the side of the Tower, dead.

So what's wrong with this picture? My first thought in all of this was "Where's Fawkes? Why isn't he coming to Dumbledore's aid?" In the Chamber of Secrets, Harry merely had to make a loyal statement about Dumbledore (in a cave far under ground that nobody knows exist) and Fawkes flew right in to help him. So now here's Dumbledore sitting out in the open for quite some time in obvious mortal peril, and yet Fawkes never shows up. Why is that? Now Fawkes is a mystery; we don't know the full extent of his powers. We are given small samples through out the series but never a complete list of what he can do. For example, he seems to be able to Apparate/Disapparate where ever he wishes; the enchantments on the castle seem to have no effect on this. In OOTP, while Dumbledore is investigating Harry's vision of Mr. Weasley getting attacked, Dumbledore simply says to Fawkes "We will need a warning." There was a flash of fire and the phoenix was gone (OOTP pg. 470). Several moments later Fawkes pops back in and out so fast he is only a flash of flame leaving behind a single feather (pg. 474). This was his warning that Dolores Umbridge was coming.

Through this scene we can get a sense of both Fawkes' intelligence and abilities. To know that "a warning" means for him to go watch for Dolores Umbridge is impressive enough, but one would think that this would also imply that he could make himself invisible or something close to it. Later in the book, when the ministry officials have Dumbledore surrounded, the Headmaster stuns them and escapes when he "grasp[s] the phoenix's long golden tail. There was a flash of fire and the pair of them had gone." (OOTP pg. 622). So with all this ability to sense danger, sense someone in need, understand Dumbledore's thoughts and needs, spy unseen, and move about in a flash, one has to wonder why Fawkes left Dumbledore abandoned on the Tower to die.

Next is the Avada Kedavra, performed by Snape. In GOF Frank Bryce is hit with the curse, which is described as "a flash of green light, and a rushing sound, and Frank Bryce crumpled. He was dead before he hit the floor." (GOF pg. 15). When Cedric Diggory is hit with it in the same book it is described with "a blast of green light blazed through Harry's eyelids, and he heard something heavy fall to the ground beside him. Cedric was laying spread-eagle on the ground beside him. He was dead." The Riddle family is found still sitting at the table. However, when Dumbledore is hit: "A jet of green light shot from the end of Snape's wand and hit Dumbledore squarely in the chest. Dumbledore was blasted into the air. For a split second he seemed to hang suspended beneath the shining skull, and then he fell slowly backward, like a great rag doll, over the battlements and out of sight." (HBP pg. 396). The flash of green was there but no rushing noise, but even more interesting is that he was blasted backwards like he was hit with a stunning curse rather than dropping straight down dead as one would expect. Nobody looks over the side to see his dead body lying there; it's just assumed that he did in fact die.

We are not given a great deal of information about the unforgivable curses. Harry is often reminded he is the only one who has survived this particular curse (although technically Voldemort did too, as when his own curse rebounded on him it didn't kill him either). In OOTP Bellatrix tells Harry, when his Crucio had no real effect on her, "Never used an Unforgivable Curse before, have you, boy? You need to mean them, Potter!" (OOTP pg. 810). This makes me think that whilst Snape may have said the curse there wasn't enough feeling put into it to kill Dumbledore, only enough to knock him off his feet.

Throughout all the stories we are repeatedly told how Dumbledore trusts Snape. In HBP we learn from Sybill Trelawney that Snape was the eavesdropper at the door. However, she said that he was brought in after her trance was over (HBP pg. 545), whereas in OOTP Dumbledore tells us that the eavesdropper was caught before hearing all the prophecy and thrown out. I read an excellent theory (The North Tower # 42) that Snape knew all the prophecy but, on Dumbledore's order, only told Voldemort the first part, thus providing the root of Dumbledore's trust of Snape. I have a theory that goes one step further. I suspect that Dumbledore and Snape made an unbreakable vow about this and The Hog's Head's barkeeper (none other than Dumbledore's brother Aberforth) witnessed it. I can't imagine Dumbledore investing that much faith in a former Death Eater otherwise.

Now we move on to the discovery of Dumbledore's body. Harry and Hagrid walk up to the body just as other people are beginning to gather around it. It is noted in the text that "The locket they had managed to steal so many hours before had fallen out of Dumbledore's pocket. It had opened, perhaps due to the force with which it hit the ground." (HBP pg. 609). I think this is a critical bit of information. I believe that Dumbledore read the note inside the locket before fleeing. I think that he was assisted in leaving by Fawkes or possibly Aberforth, who would have certainly seen the Dark Mark and come to investigate. I believe he transfigured something to look like himself to leave as testimony to his "death". I think he intentionally left the locket out for Harry to find knowing Harry's history of forgetfulness and overlooking the obvious when under stress.

There are many examples of this: leaving the invisibility cloak on the astronomy tower after ditching Norbert, after which he got caught when leaving the tower and put in detention (SS); stealing a car instead of waiting for help when he missed the Hogwarts Express (COS); leaving the invisibility cloak by the Whomping Willow and letting Snape get it (POA); almost leaving the note from Sirius on Hedwig when she turned up injured meaning that Umbridge could have got it (OOTP); placing the mirror from Sirius in his trunk and then forgetting about it, when it could have easily been used to avoid Harry going near the Ministry that night (OOTP). The list goes on and on. I think Dumbledore wanted to ensure that Harry would see the locket and read its contents, so he left it out in plain view.

And finally, we are back to Fawkes again. It wasn't until Harry was up in the hospital wing checking on everyone else that Fawkes turns up, flying around the grounds singing his sorrowful song. By this point Dumbledore has been "dead" for quite a while, so why the delay in the song? I am confident that it is because he was with Dumbledore, then sent back to deflect suspicion. The list of reasons why Dumbledore staged his own death would be a whole other article. I think most of them are pretty obvious so I won't go there. But I do believe he did stage his own death and I think J.K. left a strong trail of hints to support this theory. Time will tell.

got it frm mugglenet.com 😳 😊 😉 😆

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