Abortion/Planned Parenthood: The Flip Side - Page 4

Originally posted by: Opti

The pro-life versus pro-choice debate is not a settled one. When one talks of freedom one also has to talk of responsibility. If one has got pregnant (here I am not talking of a case of rape), then should that person not assume responsibility for her actions? Should her right deprive the right of the child to come to this world? How is her right more important than the right of the child to be born? One tends to look at the baby as a part of her body so she may do with it as she pleases but then the baby is another life apart from her. By that logic, one can also argue that the right to take away one's life should also be granted for after all the person is taking away his/her own life, not someone else's. If life has become so difficult for this person, why should that person not have the right to choose to die?

Even if one leaves aside the moral issue, the emotional trauma one goes through after an MTP is enormous and not many women can be completely guilt free later on.

That is a valid point! Even medical euthanasia for terminally ill patients is not an accepted norm in some countries!

Originally posted by: bDgT

That is a valid point! Even medical euthanasia for terminally ill patients is not an accepted norm in some countries!

I am not only talking of euthanasia. I am talking of a situation wherein a person gets into insurmountable debt or has a failure in love or something which according to that person has made it impossible to live. Can the person then choose to end his/her life? After all he should have the right over his/her own life shouldn't he/she? So why then suicide is considered a crime in all countries and why should a person who survives a suicide attempt be punished?


If one feels that one has no right to take one's own life, I guess then planned abortion should also be unacceptable because here one is exercising the right to eliminate another, when she has no right to eliminate herself.

Originally posted by: Opti

I am not only talking of euthanasia. I am talking of a situation wherein a person gets into insurmountable debt or has a failure in love or something which according to that person has made it impossible to live. Can the person then choose to end his/her life? After all he should have the right over his/her own life shouldn't he/she? So why then suicide is considered a crime in all countries and why should a person who escapes an attempted suicide be punished?

If one feels that one has no right to take one's own life, I guess then planned abortion should also be unacceptable because here one is exercising the right to eliminate another, when she has no right to eliminate herself.

Interesting points!

But in the end, the pregnancy does not become "life form" until some amount of time! Until that some amount of time, the onus of choice should lie with the one who is carrying it!

Let me raise one pertinent question here, by the same token that you are arguing then should birth control also not be against pro life? So how can we say that X is against humanity but Y is not when both are basically doing the same thing but in different manners.

Originally posted by: bDgT

But in the end, the pregnancy does not become "life form" until some amount of time! Until that some amount of time, the onus of choice should lie with the one who is carrying it!

Let me raise one pertinent question here, by the same token that you are arguing then should birth control also not be against pro life? So how can we say that X is against humanity but Y is not when both are basically doing the same thing but in different manners.

That depends on what one considers as life. As you yourself mentioned, organs start getting formed by 3 weeks of fertilisation. As fertilisation takes place mid-cycle, the woman may not realise she is pregnant till she misses a period (which normally comes two weeks later). She then waits for some time before taking the test. By then another week could have elapsed. So by the time she goes in for the MTP, the embryo within her has already started to develop organs. The heart starts to beat in 3 weeks of conception. Now tell me if that is the sign of life or not.


As this post relates to Geet's decision if she takes one in this regard, she is well past the time when life has begun to take shape within her (going by what they have shown so far) unless they turn around and say she was never pregnant in the first place in which case this argument of planned abortion does not arise. So it is a clear case here. Would she choose herself over the life of her child? If she choose herself, then her character gets killed along with the unborn baby.


Coming to the issue of birth control, it prevents the origination of life, it does not kill a life already formed. Comparing the two on the same plane is like comparing apples with oranges.


Let me add that MTP comes with its risks. There have been instances when due to infection and scarring during MTP, the woman ends up not being able to bear children in future. So there is not only emotional trauma associated with MTP but also the possibility of gynec problems caused by it. I think women should weigh all these things before taking the huge step of ending a life.

Originally posted by: Opti

As this post relates to Geet's decision if she takes one in this regard, she is well past the time when life has begun to take shape within her (going by what they have shown so far) unless they turn around and say she was never pregnant in the first place in which case this argument of planned abortion does not arise. So it is a clear case here. Would she choose herself over the life of her child? If she choose herself, then her character gets killed along with the unborn baby.

Coming to the issue of birth control, it prevents the origination of life, it does not kill a life already formed. Comparing the two on the same plane is like comparing apples with oranges.

Let me add that MTP comes with its risks. There have been instances when due to infection and scarring during MTP, the woman ends up not being able to bear children in future. So there is not only emotional trauma associated with MTP but also the possibility of gynec problems caused by it. I think women should weigh all these things before taking the huge step of ending a life.

I would rather prefer that she abort the child within the legal framework whatever be the reasons rather than that she has a miscarriage! And since the timeline is not indicated in the serial as yet, i am not gonna go there!

While we were arguing on eugenic grounds; what I would like to bring is a human angle.

If it was a sister/daughter of yours who is 18 years, cheated and pregnant! What would you do?

If she is my sister/daughter - I would counsel her, I would provide her all the pros and cons - I would get her to medical counseling - and even if after all that she still wants to retain the child I would respect her opinion. But after the birth of the child, I would seriously ask her if she wanted to rear the child on her own or if I am elder I would take care of the child, if I am not in a position to do so, I would discuss adoption options with her.

It is great to say - the baby is LIFE so she should not abort the child/give up for adoption within the family or outside the family, but people have to also take into consideration the youth that is lost just because of someone's callous acts. It is great to get on to a moralistic high horse without compassion for the victim of the cheating.

Yes, it is an immense burden for an 18 yr. old to be landed with a baby from some callous act of some cheat. Talking about baby''s rights while forgetting an 18 yr. old teenager's rights is taking a moral high ground IMHO

Originally posted by: bDgT

While we were arguing on eugenic grounds; what I would like to bring is a human angle.

If it was a sister/daughter of yours who is 18 years, cheated and pregnant! What would you do?

If she is my sister/daughter - I would counsel her, I would provide her all the pros and cons - I would get her to medical counseling - and even if after all that she still wants to retain the child I would respect her opinion. But after the birth of the child, I would seriously ask her if she wanted to rear the child on her own or if I am elder I would take care of the child, if I am not in a position to do so, I would discuss adoption options with her.

It is great to say - the baby is LIFE so she should not abort the child/give up for adoption within the family or outside the family, but people have to also take into consideration the youth that is lost just because of someone's callous acts. It is great to get on to a moralistic high horse without compassion for the victim of the cheating.

Yes, it is an immense burden for an 18 yr. old to be landed with a baby from some callous act of some cheat. Talking about baby''s rights while forgetting an 18 yr. old teenager's rights is taking a moral high ground IMHO

But this is the very core of the story. Geet has chosen to raise the baby, facing all resistance from her family and they show that she had some divine guidance in this regard, with Maan crossing her just then, indicating that he will be the one who will support her. So now wanting the serial to take a complete u-turn and show her want an abortion just goes against the grains of her character. Having the baby at a young age is not the real problem here. Being a single mom is which I think Maan's entry should take care of. A loving support from their families has seen many young moms achieve their dreams.


Although I would like the baby to be born, if they choose to get rid of the baby, I personally would rather see a miscarriage than an abortion because at least that is something one does not have a control over.


As to whether I would subscribe to the same view if Geet was my sister or daughter, the question would not arise because I would not have allowed the girl to get married so early in life in the first place for the consequences of getting pregnant to follow. But then this is a story of a girl in a small town for whom certain choices have already been made and the consequences of it she is willing to face boldly. I salute her for it and am glad she has her saviour in Maan, although real life may not always be so kind.

But then this is fiction and lets enjoy the show for whatever it is worth. I don't expect it to be the solution for all that ails the society, especially if that solution lies in willfully taking away a life for the sins committed by another. From what I have seen of the show, I dont think the CVs wish to tread this path either.

Btw, came across this post of yours. Looks like your view on this pregnancy track has undergone some drastic change since you last made this post.

http://www.india-forums.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=1456306

Originally posted by: Opti

But this is the very core of the story. Geet has chosen to raise the baby, facing all resistance from her family and they show that she had some divine guidance in this regard, with Maan crossing her just then, indicating that he will be the one who will support her. So now wanting the serial to take a complete u-turn and show her want an abortion just goes against the grains of her character. Having the baby at a young age is not the real problem here. Being a single mom is which I think Maan's entry should take care of. A loving support from their families has seen many young moms achieve their dreams.


Although I would like the baby to be born, if they choose to get rid of the baby, I personally would rather see a miscarriage than an abortion because at least that is something one does not have a control over.


As to whether I would subscribe to the same view if Geet was my sister or daughter, the question would not arise because I would not have allowed the girl to get married so early in life in the first place for the consequences of getting pregnant to follow. But then this is a story of a girl in a small town for whom certain choices have already been made and the consequences of it she is willing to face boldly. I salute her for it and am glad she has her saviour in Maan, although real life may not always be so kind.

But then this is fiction and lets enjoy the show for whatever it is worth. I don't expect it to be the solution for all that ails the society, especially if that solution lies in willfully taking away a life for the sins committed by another. From what I have seen of the show, I dont think the CVs wish to tread this path either.

Btw, came across this post of yours. Looks like your view on this pregnancy track has undergone some drastic change since you last made this post.

http://www.india-forums.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=1456306

Opti, regarding the post marked in bold, if you see, I have already stated in the beginning of the post and given the link myself that THIS IS NOT ABOUT ME or my personal opinion. And that I am arguing both sides of the case or debate as any good lawyer/debater would do and the first thing a lawyer/debater does is assumes that they know nothing until everything is put on the table from all perspectives.

Please check on Page 1 at the top of the post.

Thank you,
Bri