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Vrish

@Vr15h

Stunner

+ 6

Posted: 14 years ago

#131

Vinu

You'll find both this thread, as well as the +* Dwapar Yuga: Doubts & Discussions *+ thread very useful. That thread is about the original story as per the scriptures, and not restricted by what's shown in the serial.

The other 5 marriages that Krishna had were significant in that they featured Arjun for 3 of them. In Kalindi's case, it was Arjun who discovered her, and found that she was wanting to marry Vishnu, and so took her to Krishna, who married her after she returned to Dwarka. Mitravindya was the sister of Vindya/Anuvindya, who were rulers of Avanti and in the Kurukshetra war, fought on the Kaurava side and were killed by Satyaki. Anyway, Mitravindya wanted to marry Krishna against the wishes of her 2 brothers, and Krishna abducted her and took her while Arjun defeated Vindya & Anuvindya on his behalf and enabled this marriage. There was one more marriage that Arjun supported Krishna on - forget which one. And yeah, Lakshmanaa had a swayamvar identical to Draupadi's, and Krishna won her there. I didn't know that Arjun even participated, but if he did, he probably defered to Krishna here, like you said.

But in the serial, they've skipped all that, and today, showed Narakasura capturing the 16,000 woman, who was a bride returning w/ her baraat, but her groom was killed by Naraka's troops. So unless they show Krishna's other 5 marriages later (which would be ridiculous, since the 16,100 wives Krishna took were his last), it would seem that they chose to skip these wives of Krishna, of whom little is known.

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varaali

@varaali

Dazzler

+ 2

Posted: 14 years ago

#132

Vrish and Vinu.

The swayamvar of Lakshmana is laid out in great detail. Why would the Sagars choose to skip it?

Lakshmana was the princess of Madra kingdom. Her father Brihatsena conducted a swaymvar similar - not identical- to the one held for Draupadi. In Draupadi's swayamvar, the contestant could see the revolving fish, but had to aim it by looking at its reflection, i.e he could measure the distance between the fish and its reflection.

In Lakshmana's case, the actual fish was not visible to the contestant. Only its reflection in the water was, and the archer had to shoot it. Many renowned warriors- Duryodhana and Jarasanda among them tried, but failed. Arjuna merely grazed the target but could not pierce it. Finally Krishna alone suceeded.

As is usual in Swayamvars, after Lakshmana garlanded Krishna, confusion raged with the defeated kings waging war against Krishna. Krishna successfully held them off till he reached Dwaraka.

This is described in the 83 chapter when Draupadi asks each queen to narrate how she became Krishna's wife.

Vanadhi,

Please do not confuse Andal and this princess Lakshmana. The latter is a mythological character who existed in the Dwapara Yuga. Aandaal (Godha ) was very much a flesh and blood figure whose devotion to Ranganatha is lengendary and whose songs (Tirupavai) we still sing today.

Edited by varaali - 14 years ago

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Vrish

@Vr15h

Stunner

+ 6

Posted: 14 years ago

#133

varaali

How could Lakshmanaa have been princess of Madra? Shalya was the ruler of Madra, and no mention is made of him here. Krishna is also described as having married a princess of Gandhara, but then, wouldn't it have made Shakuni his relative?

I thought that Arjun helped Krishna hold his enemies @ bay (similar to what Balarama did for Rukmini) in this case. Did Arjun even try to contest this? He'd have passed any Swayamvar where Krishna was also a suitor.

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varaali

@varaali

Dazzler

+ 2

Posted: 14 years ago

#134

Vrish,

I will quote from SB on this matter-

That Lakshmana was the daughter of the King of Madra is mentioned in the 57th sloka of the 58th chapter . "Sutaam cha Madra adhipate" is the exact word used. ( I re checked after you raised a very valid doubt)

But you are also right - Shalya (Nakul - Sahadeva's maternal uncle) was the ruler of Madra. SO were there two kingdoms bearing the same name? Dunno.

More details emerge in the 83rd Chapter when Lakshmana describes her swayamwar . She mentions her father's name as Brihatsena. She also mentions that Arjuna attempted, but could only scratch (not pierce) the fish.

Probably Arjuna deliberately pretended to fail, knowing very well that only Krishna would be able to excel him.

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Chandra

@Roark

Rocker

Posted: 14 years ago

#135

Vrish - thanks for the detailed info and I agree with you.

Vrish and Vaarali, Regarding Lakshana It was Madarasa if I am not mistaken. its not madra. as rightly pointed by Vrish. Beacuse Madra was the maternal place for Nakula and Sahadeva.

And yes Arjuna deliberately missed the aim while Bhima refused to even particiapte.

Andal was a flesh and blood character whose hyms are recited in the margayi month which is between December 15 and January 15 of every year early in the morning. She became one with god because of her steadfast devotion.

and on Kalinidi I agree. Arjuna spotted her first. Kalini is also said to be the kepper of Yamuna while some say its Yamuna herself. There is another version which says that krishna meet Surya at Indraprastha and Surya was so impressed with him that he offered Kalindi in marraige to Krishna.

Bhadra who was his cousin was also married in a swayamvar and she chose him as her husband.

I am yet to check what happened today. And how come Narakasur has come in so early?

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varaali

@varaali

Dazzler

+ 2

Posted: 14 years ago

#136

Vinu,

Regarding Madra / madarasa : probably you are correct, but as I have said earlier, the SB says "madra - adhipate"

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Vrish

@Vr15h

Stunner

+ 6

Posted: 14 years ago

#137

Originally posted by: vinuchand
Some one correct me, the order of Krishna's wives as far as I know are as follows:

1. Rukmini;

2. Jambavathi;

3. Sathybhama;

4. Kalindi - a river again;

5.Mitravrinda;

6.Naganajiti or Satya or Nila;

7. Bhadra - known also to be a river and was Krishn's cousin; and

8. Lakshana.

Many places its still disputed if Krishna maried Jambavathi first or Sathyabhama. Sathybhama is mostly referred to as his II wife while if we follow the chronology of the events it will not be correct.

From the Mausala Parva in the Mahabharata, I came across this passage:

Rukmini, the princess of Gandhara, Saivya, Haimavati, and queen Jamvabati ascended the funeral pyre. Satyabhama and other dear wives of Krishna entered the woods, O king, resolved to set themselves to the practice of penances. They began to live on fruits and roots and pass their time in the contemplation of Hari. Going beyond the Himavat, they took up their abode in a place called Kalpa. Those men who had followed Arjuna from Dwaravati, were distributed into groups, and bestowed upon Vajra.

My question to Vinu or anyone else - can someone map the names given in the Mahabharata to the list above? Rukmini, Satyabhama & Jambavati is obvious, but which ones are Saivya, Haimavati and the Gandhara princess?

Edited by _Vrish_ - 14 years ago

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varaali

@varaali

Dazzler

+ 2

Posted: 14 years ago

#138

Vrish,

Saibya , according to Bhagavatham is clearly- Mitravinda. Let us look at slokas no 6 & 7 of Chapter 83, where Draupadi mentions wife by name. The actual sloka goes like this

sri draupadi uvacha

he vaidhabhi achyuto bhadre

he jambhavati kausale

he satyabhame kalindi

saibye rohini lakshmane...

Nine names are listed in total.

1)Vaidharbhi (Rukmini)

2)Bhadra (his cousin),

3)Jambavanti,

4) Kausala (Nagnajiti / Satya)

5)Sathyabhama,

6)Kalindi,

7) Saibya,

8)Rohini ,

9)Lakshmana

Of these, since Mitravinda is not mentioned as such, we can conclude that she is Shiabya. Moreover, a following sloka (whein Mitravinda describes how Krishna married her )also confirms this.

The Rohini ( at No 8) is one of the 16000 captured by Narakasura.

Regarding the Princess of Gandhara, the Mahabharata (book 7 chapter 11) mentions that Krishna carried away the princess of Gandhara in a swamvara where the test was to yoke a set of bulls to a plough. Can we then assume that this princess was Satya ? ( I am no expert on Mahabharata- you may want to re- check this)

Edited by varaali - 14 years ago

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Charu

@Krinya

Trailblazer

+ 8

Posted: 14 years ago

#139

WOW episode today (26 aug) but what happened to all the dubbing artists? 😆 narkasur called himself "tarkasur" 😆 garud telling Krishna, "aap toh bijli hai" (i didn't get this dialogue)

liked all the scenes, the special effects were good specially garud coming..in the end eartquake in narkasur land was also nice, his mukut falling 👏 n dwarikadheesh music playing in the background...prithvi devi meeting narkasur...apsara or whoever the ladies were revealing krishna's plan (how intelligent) 😆 krishna telling satyabhama ke they cannot go on rath, pragjyotishpur is miles away..howcome narkasur travelled back n forth, may be that's why he was resting on that tree 🤣 coming to think of that, how far was indralok to pragjyotishpur? 😕 narkasur ka ufo thak gaya tha 😆

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Kalpesh Narsi

@aalochak

Navigator

Posted: 14 years ago

#140

Originally posted by: varaali
Saibya , according to Bhagavatham is clearly- Mitravinda.

The Rohini ( at No 8) is one of the 16000 captured by Narakasura.

Regarding the Princess of Gandhara, the Mahabharata (book 7 chapter 11) mentions that Krishna carried away the princess of Gandhara in a swamvara where the test was to yoke a set of bulls to a plough. Can we then assume that this princess was Satya ? ( I am no expert on Mahabharata- you may want to re- check this)

Thanks Varaali

According to Vishnu Puran (5.32.1)...

Parasara, I have enumerated to you Pradyumna and the other sons of Rukmini.

Satyabhama bore Bhanu and Bhairika.

The sons of Rohini were Diptimat, Tamrapakshi, and others.

The powerful samba and other sons were born of Jambavati.

Bhadravinda and other valiant youths were the sons of Nagnajiti.

saivya (or Mitravinda) had several sons, of whom Sangramajit was the chief.

Vrika and others were begotten by Hari on Madri.

Lakshmana had Gatravat and others:

and sruta and others were the sons of Kalindi 1.

So in this list also 9 names are given, Rohini being the extra one. I agree with you that Rohini may have been one of the rescued woman from Pragjyotishpura. (This is contrary to what was stated in an earlier thread than Rohini is Jambavati, since both SB and VP mention Rohini and Jambavati as separate.

Mitravinda is most probably Saivya according to this verse. Again agreeing with you 😛. Mitravinda was the daughter of Krishna's aunt Rajadhidevi and Jayasena of Avanti. Vinda and Anuvinda were her brothers. They joined the Kaurava side during the MBh war because of their bitterness to Krishna who abducted their sister on her request (a la Rukmini).

I disagree that Ganadhari refers to Satya. Satya was the daughter of Koshala king, Nagnajit (😆 sorry I can't keep a straight face when I come across this name). The Koshala kingdom was quite distinct from Gandhara. (see map below).

The verse you refer to in Drona Parva (7-11) reads : The highly wrathful regenerate Rishi gratified with the adoration gave him boons Of eyes like the lotus petals, and endued with great bravery, Krishna, vanquishing all the kings at a self-choice, bore away the daughter of the king of the Gandharas. Those angry kings, as if they were horses by birth, were yoked unto his nuptial car and were lacerated with the whip. So here the rival kings were yoked... not the bulls😆

Bhadra, as you mentioned, was Krishna's cousin. She was the daughter of Srutakirti and Dhrishtaketu of Kekaya, and she had 5 brothers known as the 5 Kaikeyas who assisted the Pandava camp in the war (the Pandavas being their maternal cousins, of course). I have been wondering if Bhadra could be the mysterious Gandhara princess - considering the proximity of Gandhara to Kekaya - they may have been one land... also the Ramayan mentions that Bharat's sons who who matrilineal descendants of Kekaya, conquered Gandhara and brought it under the suzerainity of Kekaya.

Bhadra may also be the Madri of the VP since in the verse in VP all the queens name match with SB except Madri. VisnuPuran 5-28 " Krishna had seven other beautiful wives (besides Rukmini : Kalindi, Mitravrinda, the virtuous Nagnajiti, the queen Jambavati; Rohini, of beautiful form; the amiable and excellent daughter of the king of Madra, Madri; Satyabhama, the daughter of satrujit; and Lakshmana, of lovely smiles"

Lakshmana in the SB is the princess of Madra. But VP mentions Madri and Lakshmana as 2 separate queens - so there is a discrepancy here. Don't know what to make of it. 🤔 Madra though is certainly not current Madras (which has Portugese origin). Madra was a northwest kingdom neighboring Gandhara.

Haimavati as mentioned in MBh, I believe refers to Kalindi. Haimavati means daughter of Himavat (Himalayas). Kalindi means daughter of the Kalinda mountain. Both refer to the Yamuna River which originates in Yamunotri in Himalaya. Haimavati, interestingly also refers to the form of Uma as a Tapisvini meditating in the mountains . This description of a Tapasvini is similar to that of Kalindi. I personally believe Kalindi was not a personified river, but may have been a tribal mountain dwelling damsel, or a tapasvini who gave up her penances to wed Krishna.

Similarly I'm also less inclined to believe that Jambavati was a bear, historically. She was Riksh-raja Jambavan's daughter. Riksha-raj may refer to the king of the Riksha Mountains (which is mentioned often in the MBh, an is in present day Jharkhand) see map below... So again she may have been a tribal mountain king's daughter. Hope this theory of mine doesn't offend anyone's bhakti 🤗

The map as promised ...

Edited by aalochak - 14 years ago

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