US refuses sending raw materials of vaccine to India - Page 6

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

Instead, people are playing political games even in the face of death. As long as citizens do not demand change and are content being ginned up by fake national pride, the elite will not change.

They've found their 'get out of jail' card with all the hatred they're spewing about the US not giving them raw materials. Darling Modiji is always the victim.

Pfizer has offered to provide vaccines at-cost (not for profit) for India. They cost almost $20 for the US and EU but would be given much cheaper for poor countries. Why don't they take them and save lives instead of insisting on raw material?

Look, when you're at the mercy of another country, you have to take the option available to you. You can't have everything your way. The fact that they insist only on raw material tells me these BJP babus are trying to skim money off the top which they wouldn't be able to do with foreign vaccines.

Here is a link on how Desi NRIs can contact the Indian American representatives in the House:

Originally posted by: monu_tan

The American President last year requested India for HCQ and India obliged, without impacting its own ppl.

Trump is a raging idiot and HCQ has no effect on COVID and was unnecessary to begin with. He also didn't "request" anything. He threatened India for it and they had no choice but to give. I seriously don't understand why Indians worship Trump. It makes no sense. 👎🏼

Originally posted by: hotchoco

Trump is a raging idiot and HCQ has no effect on COVID and was unnecessary to begin with. He also didn't "request" anything. He threatened India for it and they had no choice but to give. I seriously don't understand why Indians worship Trump. It makes no sense. 👎🏼

Not only that. That was HCQ paid for U.S. companies which initially was not being sent out of India because of worries of increased local need.

ie, it was a customer order by American companies to Indian manufacturers. And it was placed prior to pandemic.

China refused to send masks and equipment paid for by the U.S. before the pandemic.

End result was production was yanked back to American soil with 3M and other manufacturers making them locally.

Yes, it hurt American short-term, but the end result will be that mission critical will not be allowed to function through China any longer. It shouldn't have been to begin with.

I'm sure Indian government saw the writing on the wall even if Trump didn't threaten. India can't afford to lose production orders.

It wasn't Modi's generosity but a very practical decision.

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

I'd agree with most of this except neither NY nor CA was left to fend for itself. NY had a giant hospital ship sent to it and a field hosp constructed at Jacob Javitz Center. Unfortunately, Cuomo was more concerned about looking presidential for 2024/2028 and paid little attention to emerging facts; he sent covid positive seniors back to nursing homes. 50% of NY's covid deaths have now been revealed to be nursing home-related. If he had sent those patients to the hospital ship or to JJ Center (which remained nearly empty), those numbers would likely have been reduced by 90%.

Newsome was a lot better. Sure, he also trash-talked Trump, but he more or less followed whatever scientic evidence there was at the time and took all the support from federal government unlike Cuomo who was busy playing Comedy Circus with his brother on CNN.

NY had to BEG to get help and supplies and then procured most on their own making alliances with other states. Trump was pitting states against each other in ordering supplies - resulting in jacking up costs and making suppliers and re-sellers rich - while refusing to open Federal stock reserves, refusing to enact The Defense Act to manufacture ventilators and PPE or even wear a freaking mask or tell others to wear masks as he held election rallies spreading COVID (sound familiar?). Almost 3,000 healthcare workers died of COVID in the U.S. - mostly because they didn't have the requisite PPE.

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/09/jared-kushner-let-the-markets-decide-covid-19-fate

Those representing the private sector expected to learn about a sweeping government plan to procure supplies and direct them to the places they were needed most. New York, home to more than a third of the nation’s coronavirus cases, seemed like an obvious candidate. In turn they came armed with specific commitments of support, a memo on the merits of the Defense Production Act, a document outlining impediments to the private-sector response, and two key questions: How could they best help? And how could they best support the government’s strategy?

What actually transpired in the room stunned a number of those in attendance. Vanity Fair has reconstructed the details of the meeting for the first time, based on recollections, notes, and calendar entries from three people who attended the meeting. All quotations are based on the recollections of one or more individual attendees.

Kushner, seated at the head of the conference table, in a chair taller than all the others, was quick to strike a confrontational tone. “The federal government is not going to lead this response,” he announced. “It’s up to the states to figure out what they want to do.”

One attendee explained to Kushner that due to the finite supply of PPE, Americans were bidding against each other and driving prices up. To solve that, businesses eager to help were looking to the federal government for leadership and direction.

“Free markets will solve this,” Kushner said dismissively. “That is not the role of government.”

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The U.S. Comfort was sent to take overfill from hospitals of Non Covid patients. Not until April 8th at Cuomo's urging did they start to accept Covid patients. Meanwhile the navy ship in L.A. had 11 patients - none with COVID. Alas patients had to agree to be moved from a hospital or care facility to the ship pf Javitz and according to the head of US Comfort not many would agree.

https://nursinghome411.org/ny-nursinghome-covid-data/

31% of NY's COVID deaths were seniors in nursing homes, assisted living facilities and outside facilities (hospitals). Sadly, while horrific it's lower than the overall 34% across the U.S. This was a nationwide failing.to protect the most vulnerable.

https://covidtracking.com/analysis-updates/what-we-know-about-the-impact-of-the-pandemic-on-our-most-vulnerable-community

Less than 1 percent of America’s population lives in nursing homes and other long-term-care facilities. Deaths among this tiny fraction of the country accounted for at least 34 percent of all US COVID-19 deaths during the period we tracked this data.

The residents of long-term-care facilities were by far the most vulnerable of all US populations throughout the pandemic’s first year—and they were not by any measure protected until vaccines finally began to reach them in late December, nearly 10 months after the first known outbreak of COVID-19 in a US long-term-care facility.

As of March 31, 2021 - About 8% of people who live in US long-term-care facilities have died of COVID-19—nearly 1 in 12. For nursing homes alone, the figure is nearly 1 in 10.

Originally posted by: Talis

NY had to BEG to get help and supplies and then procured most on their own making alliances with other states

For one, this was at the beginning of the pandemic when there were limited supplies. For another. NY happens to be one of the richest states in the union and was hardly at a disadvantage in terms of money. Thirdly, fact remains that Cuomo sent covid positive elderly back to nursing homes, and nursing home deaths still account for 50% of NY's deaths. While the hospital ship and JJ Center remained unused!

That 50% remains squarely in Cuomo's column.

Democratic party is calling for his resignation.

So no, neither NY nor CA were unsupported. NY was mismanaged for sure. CA wasn't. At least NYers are demanding change. That CA recall is totally uncalled for.

Originally posted by: hotchoco

Trump is a raging idiot and HCQ has no effect on COVID and was unnecessary to begin with. He also didn't "request" anything. He threatened India for it and they had no choice but to give. I seriously don't understand why Indians worship Trump. It makes no sense. 👎🏼

Indians ( at least bhakts ) worship trump cos Modi and trump are or were besties

Originally posted by: Stella_001

Indians ( at least bhakts ) worship trump cos Modi and trump are or were besties

Trump isn't even loyal to his (multiple) wives. They really think the racist Cheeto was going to be besties with some brown dude in India? Strategic foreign policy decisions are not made on things like friendship anyway. Countries are not human. They are organizations that run on self-interest. If you've ever taken even one political science course, this is what you learn on the *first* day itself. Modiji's fake degrees are obvious because the man has no clue how international relations actually work.

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

For one, this was at the beginning of the pandemic when there were limited supplies. For another. NY happens to be one of the richest states in the union and was hardly at a disadvantage in terms of money. Thirdly, fact remains that Cuomo sent covid positive elderly back to nursing homes, and nursing home deaths still account for 50% of NY's deaths. While the hospital ship and JJ Center remained unused!

That 50% remains squarely in Cuomo's column.

Democratic party is calling for his resignation.

So no, neither NY nor CA were unsupported. NY was mismanaged for sure. CA wasn't. At least NYers are demanding change. That CA recall is totally uncalled for.

Again not 50% but 31% - under the horrific National avg of 34%. The surrounding Northeast states were also higher - Penn- 49%, Mass 54% etc. That's because these were the areas hardest and first hit, with overcrowded hospitals, without the requisite medical supplies and not a lot of experience fighting Covid.

NY had 1/3rd of the Nations COVID cases at the time. NYC had 60-70% of that. A population dense vertical city which lives on public transportation with multiple airports, international visitors spreading a then more dangerous European strain than hit the West coast Where else was help needed more? We were drowning and the Fed gov't told us tough shit - beg some more and kiss Trumps ass if you want to live. The concept that we should have paid more and bid against other states because it's wealthy state is ridiculous. That's what we pay Federal taxes for - that and to prop up all the poor states. Well, now we're deep in debt and all the poor states are whining about the Fed gov't giving NY and other "rich" (let's just say it blue) states money.

The supplies were limited because the Fed Gov't was grossly incompetent and pathologically unconcerned for the welfare of it's citizens. They were made aware in JAN 2020 according to Trumps interviews in the Bob Woodward book. They would have known earlier if he hadn't removed the pandemic team from China. By mid March states were already going under lock down and even then the federal gov't would not enact the Defense Act or offer any federal plan.

Originally posted by: Talis

Again not 50% but 31% - under the horrific National avg of 34%. The surrounding Northeast states were also higher - Penn- 49%, Mass 54% etc. That's because these were the areas hardest and first hit, with overcrowded hospitals, without the requisite medical supplies and not a lot of experience fighting Covid.

NY had 1/3rd of the Nations COVID cases at the time. NYC had 60-70% of that. A population dense vertical city which lives on public transportation with multiple airports, international visitors spreading a then more dangerous European strain than hit the West coast Where else was help needed more? We were drowning and the Fed gov't told us tough shit - beg some more and kiss Trumps ass if you want to live. The concept that we should have paid more and bid against other states because it's wealthy state is ridiculous. That's what we pay Federal taxes for - that and to prop up all the poor states. Well, now we're deep in debt and all the poor states are whining about the Fed gov't giving NY and other "rich" (let's just say it blue) states money.

The supplies were limited because the Fed Gov't was grossly incompetent and pathologically unconcerned for the welfare of it's citizens. They were made aware in JAN 2020 according to Trumps interviews in the Bob Woodward book. They would have known earlier if he hadn't removed the pandemic team from China. By mid March states were already going under lock down and even then the federal gov't would not enact the Defense Act or offer any federal plan.

Point is NY did have help. Cuomo chose not to use it.The hospital ship wasn't sent by him, and the JJ Center wasn't built by him.

Point is also that they did have the money to use if they wanted to buy more equipment. Is the idea that only the feds should help? Why not let NY pay for it since the state did have money and pay for states which didn't? Isn't that how feds are supposed to work? Saying NY pays taxes therefore feds should pay for it is like U.S. going to the WHO and saying, "Hey, we pay most of your budget, so we should get vaccines free like developing countries." No, the U.S. should pay. Let the poorer countries get for free. It's a crisis situation. We can account for dollars and cents after.

And btw, ventilators remained UNUSED in NY in spite of all the arguments about feds not paying.

Also, most of the production chain was located in China since the time of its entry into WTO. They refused to let companies ship equipment out. There was NO equipment to give to NY or anyone else at the time.

And yes, Defense Production Act WAS used to ramp up after which every state was able to get what they needed. That's how 3M and Ford came through with critical stuff.

Also, there was a travel ban which people - including NY and CA - fought against because no one understood the pandemic at the time.

i wouldn't blame CUomo or Pelosi for their arguments against travel ban at the time because people really thought it would be like the swine flu. But I do blame Cuomo for the nursing home deaths.

Trump was terrible at the beginning of the pandemic, downplaying it so no one took it seriously until it was too late. There were also the insane suggestions about potential cures. But let's not kid ourselves Cuomo and Co had nothing to do with the spread. When he had the equipment and facilities, he chose not to use them for reasons only he knows.

And it is closer to 50%, not 31% (nursing home deaths from Covid compared to overall Covid deaths in NY). That is the current scandal concerning Cuomo. He hid the numbers to not make himself look bad. That is why even the Democrats are calling for his resignation. That number is squarely on him.

P.S. Americans demanded accountability from Trump and kicked him out. NY should do the same to CUomo. Instead, it is poor Newsome who actually did a good job who is getting recalled.