Documentary Nirbhaya India's Daughter - UPDATE Admins reply pg29 - Page 52

So it is cool to pay the rapists to watch them for 10 mins and understand their mindset

Is the documentary or killing the bas***ds more important?

Originally posted by: K.Universe.

Originally posted by: .Verity.

i've never watched a film with any of those actresses you've mentioned and even Sunny Leone films also I haven't watched them, but we can't go away from the fact that she's in many movies over the last 3 years that Udwin was in India and in the news as well frequently, and if we consider all the other female roles in Bollywood now its true they do objectify women, mostly they are only in the film to do item numbers and look pretty, they don't have goods roles lately that I have seen, so I know where she is coming from with her comment.

Originally posted by: firework

Is the documentary or killing the bas***ds more important?

Originally posted by: souro

I have watched all those films.

They are about rapes. Nothing antinational.

The flaw is that you assume or want everyone to assume that anything government bans is rightfully anti national. And we should accept it even without knowing or seeing for ourselves what was banned!

No I do not subscribe to that logic. Neither do many many other citizens.

Ready to face consequences? Sure. Government is welcome to track IDs of those who watched it online and take any action.

Here rioters roam free and win elections and they talk of action on a documentary or its viewers!

I shared how many politicians, celebs, SC judges, advocates, journos and common citizens protested against the ban. Take action then. Brand them anti national. Don't expect everyone to be a blind devotee.

The Bar Council took action only now. Technicalities don't take 3 years to issue notice. You do not want to accept it, your choice.

This is a democracy. Not a dictatorship that anything against the diktat makes one a traitor.

Article by Supreme Court lawyer on why it was a foolish decision to ban the documentary:

http://www.dailyo.in/politics/nirbhaya-leslee-udwin-bbc-indias-daughter-censorship-freedom-of-speech/story/1/2452.html

Originally posted by: atominis

Article by Supreme Court lawyer on why it was a foolish decision to ban the documentary:

http://www.dailyo.in/politics/nirbhaya-leslee-udwin-bbc-indias-daughter-censorship-freedom-of-speech/story/1/2452.html

Originally posted by: souro

You might care that it is an article by a Supreme Court lawyer, I don't. If we have to accept whatever is written in this article as the correct view just because these are words of a Supreme Court lawyer, then whatever was said in the documentary by the 2 lawyers should also be accepted as the correct view because that is also words of 2 Supreme Court lawyers.

Btw, he also says in that article:

"When will India accept that it has an increasing rape culture which has gone viral?"

"We have become cruel and uncivilised people devoid of remorse. Don't blame Leslee Udwin for what we have become. ... No banning will wipe out what [we] have become."

Which India and which 'we' is he talking about? Is he not part of that India? So is he going around raping people because he is also a citizen of the same country which according to him has 'rape culture'? People like him are parroting off the same generalisations that the Western media is spewing against India in its propaganda since the incident. Why should we take him any more seriously than the Western media and its propaganda?

You seem obsessed with this systemic conspiracy theory so much so that you are now using the word propaganda multiple times in the same post. Did you already divulge who exactly comprises this "western media" and if so could you provide a few details regarding "their" objectives?

Forget about this lawyer for a minute; who would you take "seriously" and who would you not, if that person were to talk about rape culture in India? For instance, would you take Ruchira Gupta and her articles "seriously"?

http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/challenging-indias-rape-culture/article4294223.ece

By the way, in your last sentence, which "we" are you referring to? Who is included in that "we" and who is not? Who authorized that specific set of "we" to speak on behalf of India? All those who support you are Indians and those who don't are not?

Souro

They used the word "we" in a general sense.

You mean to say that this SC lawyer is also involved in conspiracy by the West? 😲

We use words like "we" to strike a chord personally and exhort society. As in speeches and essays. TV show hosts also use "we". It doesn't mean India bashing!

The author only means that we have to take this issue more seriously. And examine the mentality we have.

The West didn't say anything. CBI director said that rape be enjoyed if it is inevitable. A former NCW member said that girl should not fight back or resist so that at least her life gets spared if attacked by rapists. Mulayam Singh said boys will be boys.

We don't need documentary sir. Our own people said worse in real life.

You are going on and on about the docu without even watching it.

ML Sharma and AP Singh talked worse to media and are still giving pukeworthy statements.

You know why debates and outrage are still on? Because of these real life interviews! Not just the docu.

Today there is debate on mentality. Thanks to this documentary because many of us have same mentality as the rapist. And a reality is that many rapes go unreported or don't get decided. This is why many get away and keep doing it. These rapists had also violated many women before and didn't think they would be caught this time.

So the point of the docu is to shed light on such issues. How one section of society is progressing and fighting for justice and how one section has completely different milieu and take on social norms. It has voices from sane Indian lawyers and activists too. No way it generalised anybody.

The West didn't defame India. India defamed itself by banning it. It is this ban that made people say, look what government doesn't want us to see. It gave impression that India was more concerned about muzzling real issue and save reputation than address it or allow debate on it.

They themselves watered down their efforts because now it also became about freedom of expression.

This documentary has Indian co producer. Mukesh was interviewed by Dibang of NDTV and not Leslie. Trashing NDTV and Dibang also as anti India? Ex HC judge Leila Seth, Sheila Dixit and many other renowned lawyers appeared in it, do they also have agenda?

Reputed jurists like Soli Sorabjee and KTS Tulsi support it and condemned the ban.

Why? Because the intent of the documentary is only to explore an issue. At no point it judges the society as a whole. Not even the rapist or his family.

I am reading comments like Nirbhaya case is just a propaganda by media to damage Congress and now used to damage Modi!

It is a shame how real issue is sidelined and instead given sinister undertones.

Online also we have comments like rape is just snuggle with a struggle, rape cases are fake or it is all women's fault or blame movies. The blame is still burdened on victim. Or the rapist is viewed as some animal or monster whereas truth is that any criminal is also one of the society (any society, not just Indian).

An author welcomed this documentary because she felt it was another addition to global discourse on sexual violence. In fact she wanted that it should be used (along with others from all countries) as a template to examine this issue and also explore sexual violence against males (which goes ignored).

Today, thanks to the interviews and another outrage, it is the mentality which is being discussed, we are now debating our laws again and Bar Council issued notice to lawyer on professional misconduct. Today itself a debate happened on a news channel in which a senior advocate admitted that law did not have any provision against such lawyers and statements and also needed a change because it uses words like modesty and indirectly leaves loopholes to malign character.

Yes it happened now.

Yesterday or so, a gangrape happened in Ludhiana. And one of the culprits got caught in 24 hours. And I credit the putrage as well as quick action to the whole new debate this docu/ban/TV debates created. (I know how seriously rape cases were taken earlier!)

As I said, if it is national and international shaming that makes people come out, discuss, debate, take action then so be it!

It is not documentary that spoils India's reputation. Anti India are those who try to stifle voices for sake of tourism, reputation or politics.

Indian filmmakers are free and welcome to make documentaries on other countries. I would like to watch reports on all countries. Please share links of all banned books, documentaries and films.
Let's put things in perspective and discuss problems, find remedies, share ideas and experiences. Crimes and suffering have no nationality.

BTW, our Indian films stereotype Western people as loose, immoral, crude, abusive to even elders, promiscuous, addicted to drugs and booze and how our Indian heroes are not like them or rescue NRIs from them or teach them lesson on humanity.
Still never seen UK or any country ban them or their people allege that this stereptyping is making people feel white women are loose and can be raped or are spoiling image of white men as abusers/druggies.

Originally posted by: K.Universe.

You seem obsessed with this systemic conspiracy theory so much so that you are now using the word propaganda multiple times in the same post. Did you already divulge who exactly comprises this "western media" and if so could you provide a few details regarding "their" objectives?

Better than being obsessed with serving the West in every debate. And I didn't know there is some kind of restriction on what word I can use and how many times. Maybe from now on I also need to show you the draft of my posts before posting them?

If you want to know how the Western media is helping in building the prejudice against India, I suggest you refer to the earlier posts.

Forget about this lawyer for a minute; who would you take "seriously" and who would you not, if that person were to talk about rape culture in India? For instance, would you take Ruchira Gupta and her articles "seriously"?

No, I won't. Not until I see some balanced reporting. I haven't seen any 'rape culture' in India. I'm a guy, grew up and lived in India all throughout except for the last 1 year or so. No one ever asked me or encouraged me to rape. In my home and families around me, I've seen girls being sent to school, being given higher education as per their merit, working in good jobs. I don't see all husbands abusing their wives. Yes there are husbands who are abusive, husbands who have extra marital affairs, there are some wives who are like that as well. But it is certainly not the norm. Most people I see, lead a normal life, where they go about doing their jobs and take care of their parents, spouse and children, contribute positively towards the society and help in upholding a healthy positive atmosphere. If India is the rape capital and we have a rape culture, don't you think I'd have encountered some people asking me at some point in time, that I should also start raping because that is our culture and that is what our society prescribes?

I agree that Indian society is not perfect, far from it and there are issues, issues related to women's status as well. There are certain segments, certain regions, the lower economic strata, who don't make enough effort to get their girls educated for various reasons. There is a desire for male child in many families. There are problems with groom's side becoming excessively greedy in matters of dowry. But there have been steps taken as well to remedy all these problems. We may have negatives, but we have lots of positives as well. So yes, our culture and society is not perfect, but we have not ignored our imperfections, we have continued to work towards rectifying them.

Rapes have happened and continue to happen everywhere and the no. of rapes happening in India is not more than what is generally observed in most big countries. But how many countries have protested at such large scale like Indians did? This 'rape capital, 'rape culture' are terms that caught on in this Twitter trending age and the Western media was quick to catch onto it and report them as facts. But that doesn't make it a fact. Had there been a rape culture, the majority of the population would have just brushed aside that incident and supported the rapist. Did that happen? Spreading negativity by generalising the whole country and population as 'rape capital' and 'rape culture' is not helping, that is propaganda geared towards maligning a whole country and its people, which only serves to demoralise. Those (both govt. workers and voluntary activists) who are actively fighting against the criminals, spreading awareness among people about importance of girl's education, self reliance and those crores of parents who are educating their children and teaching them to respect one and all, are the ones who are helping in making the society safe and positive.

http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/challenging-indias-rape-culture/article4294223.ece

By the way, in your last sentence, which "we" are you referring to? Who is included in that "we" and who is not? Who authorized that specific set of "we" to speak on behalf of India? All those who support you are Indians and those who don't are not?

The 'we' who support the ban on the documentary and oppose Western media's generalisations. And yes, those who prefer to support a foreign entity rather than India are not Indians, if they are Indian citizen then they are anti-nationals.