Exploitation of employee or blackmail of employer? (Khobragade case)

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@K.Universe.

Voyager

Posted: 11 years ago

#171

Originally posted by: _Angie_

Amidst all the outrage, discussion, a few facts should remain front and centre.

I agree. I don't see a need to be overly wordy so I will submit my set of facts as follows:

1. Khobragde lied
2. Khobragde didn't enjoy diplomatic immunity at the time of her arrest.
3. Even if Khobragade is conferred immunity at her new job, it will not apply retroactively.
4. No apology from U.S. No dice.
5. No dropping of charges against Khobragade. She will be tried in the court of law.

The rest is noise.

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441597

Suspended

Posted: 11 years ago

#172

Originally posted by: K.Universe.

Please explain how is it not? Explain that.

Edit: Oh yeah, thanks for reminding me. I forgot, it was Devyani's lawyer who Devyani paid to call up Devyani and offered money to Devyani to drop all court cases against Sangeetha. Silly me. 🤪

Edited by krystal_watz - 11 years ago

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441597

Suspended

Posted: 11 years ago

#173

Re to 1971: US sent Navy fleet to the Bay of Bengal to intimidate India to prevent it from helping in the Liberation War of Bangladesh, in support of Pakistan and Pak-supported war criminals. So I don't see how India needs to worry about losing "goodwill" towards a nation which had practised qasi-hostility against it in past.
If India is behaving like a "petulant child" in your opinion by protesting against a violation of its judicial sovereignty, then so be it. That's far better than behaving like a Mafia Lord while saving the arses of MURDERERS in Kenya or Pakistan. But heck, all in all, I understand that for some, the idea of non-double standards in judgment towards First
and Third World nations can be a baffling concept.

Edited by krystal_watz - 11 years ago

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_Angie_

@_Angie_

Rocker

Posted: 11 years ago

#174

Originally posted by: K.Universe.

I agree. I don't see a need to be overly wordy so I will submit my set of facts as follows:

1. Khobragde lied
2. Khobragde didn't enjoy diplomatic immunity at the time of her arrest.
3. Even if Khobragade is conferred immunity at her new job, it will not apply retroactively.
4. No apology from U.S. No dice.
5. No dropping of charges against Khobragade. She will be tried in the court of law.

The rest is noise.

it could be shorter-
US: Our way is the highway.

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441597

Suspended

Posted: 11 years ago

#175

Some snippets from the 1963 Vienna Convention:

Article 43 (1):

"Consular officers shall not be liable to arrest or detention

pending trial, except in the case of a grave crime and pursuant to a
decision by the competent judicial authority."

Article 47 (1):
Consuls are exempt from any obligations in regard to work permits

imposed by the laws and regulations of the receiving State concerning
the employment of foreign labour."

In light of the second Article (47), Devyani clearly had diplomatic immunity in regards to employment of foreign labour.

Edited by krystal_watz - 11 years ago

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return_to_hades

@return_to_hades

Stunner

+ 6

Posted: 11 years ago

#176

Originally posted by: krystal_watz
Article 43 (1):
"Consular officers shall not be liable to arrest or detention
pending trial, except in the case of a grave crime and pursuant to a
decision by the competent judicial authority."

Immigration visa fraud is a very grave and serious crime in the USA. The lawyer requesting warrant for arrest and the judge approving it made the judicial decision that it was so.

Originally posted by: krystal_watz
Article 47 (1):
Consuls are exempt from any obligations in regard to work permits
imposed by the laws and regulations of the receiving State concerning
the employment of foreign labour."

In light of the second Article (47), Devyani clearly had diplomatic immunity in regards to employment of foreign labour.

Even though what Devyani Khboragade did would be considered indentured servitude in the USA, that is not what the charges are.

The charges are

1) Visa fraud - She should not have lied on the visa application
2) Misrepresentation - She should not have misrepresented the income

USA is not charging her over foreign labor, but the lies and fraud she committed in order to bring a maid to USA.

Edited by return_to_hades - 11 years ago

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@K.Universe.

Voyager

Posted: 11 years ago

#177

Originally posted by: krystal_watz

Please explain how is it not? Explain that.

Since you made the assertion, the burden of proof rests on you and I carry the benefit of assumption. But if you look at the timeline of events, the Khobragades initiated legal action in India against the Richards AFTER the US department of justice launched an investigation against Khobragde; this was clearly a retaliatory measure aimed at silencing the Richards back in a country where the Khobragades rule, rather than face the music here in US so the only reasonable conclusion one can draw from this case is that the Khobragades are stalling the judicial process here in US by hoping to put the Richards in jail back in India and make access to them impossible to the US authorites. No witnesses = no court case. Too bad, Bharara saw through their game plan.

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chal_phek_mat

@chal_phek_mat

Inactive

Posted: 11 years ago

#178

It is always intresting to see a story unfold, how the news reports it and how the readers in various sections respond to it

So much was said about the maid being a conniving, hungry for migration to US of A

however not much is said of Devyani Khobargade. how she got to where she got, there was an article in TOI about how she got her posting in Germany, basically the Indian civil services rules were bent so that she alone would get the posting and this is what the Judicial system in India concluded. Imagine how powerful her backup support in India is to make that happen.

You really think Sangeeta Richard and her family stood a chance in India?

Do you really think the US Attoney's were not aware of the fact and not do the needful to ensure fair trial against Ms Khbobargade?

Yeah if the civil servant was from a country like Russia, the US Attorneys would not have done the public arrest but common you are talking about an Indian Consul's officer, they very well knew what is the most India and Indians would do...

To make things easy the State Deparment did notify the Indian Govt of the pending inquiry against Devyani 3 months in advance, they could have done the right thing and withdrawn Devyani from the US Consular office and avoided an embrassing situation for the Govt and its ctizens,

I wont comment on who is right and who is wrong in this matter but here is my prediction

Preet Bharara is a smart cookie, he would not risk his background and his future to grant asylum the the Richard family, so I think they have a strong standing to execute the case and they will win the case

The Richard Family Indian Govt has already kindda made the Richards persona-non-grata, so they will stay as criminals in Indian penal system

Devyani will have to reach a settlement out of court or serve some community service punishment, given she will have no options but the accept the American court ruling since she is married to an American and I suppose her Kids are also American

Preet Bharara: The way Mr Bharara is building up his profile, he seems to be on his way to getting a nomination for contesting some election on the GOP side.

Indian Media will soon realize that they have been had when the person they are supporting to prove their nationalistic jingoism is found to be embroiled in many a leading national scandals(read the Adarsh Cooperative hsg report headlines if you are not following it:)

Indian public will continue to be amazed how American Govt put their country over "a do take ki naukrani"

American public(other than Americans of Indian Origin) will continue to care about it as much as Penguin dying in some far off land

but the thread was an interesting read, good debate😉

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441597

Suspended

Posted: 11 years ago

#179

@Mr. K:

That does not change the fact that there is a warrant against Richards and her family. Again, stop mixing morality with legality. By all protocol guidelines, the US should have extradited Richards which it didn't, and on top of that, granted asylum to her family, which it has absolutely no authority to do. That is high-handedness in its purest form, and no amount of Khobragade's guilt can change that.

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Mahadevan Venkitaraman

@maha2us

Voyager

Posted: 11 years ago

#180

Hi friends,

I enjoyed going through this thread and I learn a lot also. It is also nice to see different opinions of different persons and also see that each person tells what he/she feels.

One thing I know is neither US Govt: nor Indian Govt: could claim to be 'holier than thou'. After all people whether they are Indians or Americans are the same. Everyone is driven by love at times. Other times people are driven by fear. And I would neither be able to comment about how legal system has to be or whether legal system is fair to everyone. But one thing is true. Theoretically anywhere you could hear, 'Law looks at everyone equally.' But that is not carried out in practice whether in India or USA.

Whatever is said, certain points are for sure. Devayani committed visa fraud. If she were not able to afford the maid, based on US labor laws, she must have discussed her problems with the concerned authorities and based on that made a solution. Doing something fraud, she has given bad name to the Indians in USA and that is something we can't forgive. One thing I know about USA is, you always get people with whom you can discuss your genuine problems who understand your situation. Same is not the case in India.

Whatever India did as reaction, we have to accept certain things. USA provides social security to the county's citizens and to some extent they take care of their citizens even the criminals in other countries. Is India able to take care of its citizens abroad? This is something India has to take note of. One question which comes up is for Devayani, some reaction could have been there. But many Indian fishermen and soldiers are killed abroad. Why no reaction for those persons/ Are their lives easy to be dispensed with?

As the last point, Devayani gets some support even though she had been a criminal and also is a person who has not been law abiding and there are people who are condemning the way she is treated. But then myself being a law abiding citizen, is considered a criminal in this country. For being a law abiding citizen, I am not happy the way I have to defend myself in the court and this colors my comments. .

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Exploitation of employee or blackmail of employer? (Khobragade case) - Page 18

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