491 Babies Born Alive After Failed Abortions

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return_to_hades

@return_to_hades

Stunner

+ 6

Posted: 12 years ago

#21

Originally posted by: Beyond_the_Veil

I think regardless of all the arguments and subjective moral views, abortion should be legal in the first trimester. It ought to be prohibited after the second trimester. I am done.

I agree with that as well. I don't find anything wrong with the current process in case of botched abortions, and I explained why. Yes, it is based on assumptions. It appears that you will bet on the possibility that something good can happen. I am risk averse and want to avoid the possibility of the bad things that will happen. That is the simple difference. If you think I'm going in circles, then I'm happy to stop as well.

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344471

Suspended

Posted: 12 years ago

#22

Originally posted by: return_to_hades
I agree with that as well. I don't find anything wrong with the current process in case of botched abortions, and I explained why. Yes, it is based on assumptions. It appears that you will bet on the possibility that something good can happen. I am risk averse and want to avoid the possibility of the bad things that will happen. That is the simple difference. If you think I'm going in circles, then I'm happy to stop as well.

Another point I forgot to mention - "no strings attached" also applies to say a 1 week old baby. By your logic there is nothing wrong with humanely terminating them basing their futures on pure probabilities and speculations, considering you are OK with letting them die even AFTER it has come out of the mother's body (i.e. the main point of this discussion). I think I have already given an example with the single mother and lethal injection dose. Frankly, nipping a life in the bud does not always seem like a very logical step to me.

Btw most people from the orphanage don't commit suicide as they grow and I don't think all of them consider their lives, as a whole, worthless. They carry on and strive to be happy. I don't think us privileged members of the upper class society are that much different; we have to find meaning in this meaningless world, aim to find purpose and strive to be happy against all odds. Simply knowing where our lineage came from and having a few members on our side does not change all the obstacles that we have to face and fight and defeat as we go on. I am pretty sure a lot of these unwanted babies end up getting a much better future than many of us much wanted children.

Wait - didn't I say I am done? 😆

Oh and did I mention you are speaking nonsense? 😆

Nope, I'm just going to let you enjoy my one-liners, while I eat popcorn and sit back and read the debate. Tell Sarina she's speaking nonsense again, why don't you? 😆

*wish granted* Take that as your birthday gift. 😛

Edited by Beyond_the_Veil - 12 years ago

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return_to_hades

@return_to_hades

Stunner

+ 6

Posted: 12 years ago

#23

To clarify my stance on abortion.

Step 1 is precaution. If you are not ready to raise a child, don't have a child.

Step 2 is early term abortion. Take action right away. Don't wait. (Late term abortion is acceptable only in cases of fatalities or permanent harm to mother or infant)

Step 3 is placement. If you have cold feet later then find someone to adopt or give it up to an organization that does so.

In your lethal injection scenario, I don't have info on steps 1,2,3. She directly actively kills a child. That is murder. In this the subject matter of this debate we are at step 2. Also nothing actively is being done to "kill" a child, but nothing is done to "save" it. A botched abortion is an exception, not the norm. A significant harm has already been done to the child in the attempt to abort. Saving is much more difficult and may not always be practically feasible for the hospital. Costs may outweigh the benefits.

I apologize for the utilitarian ramblings earlier. I have a hard time distilling the specifics of this discussion from my general views on abortion. If one reads Freakonomics, my utilitarian ramblings may make more sense (but not in the case of this topic).

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Aisha

@MOTHERHOOD

Stunner

+ 10

Posted: 12 years ago

#24

Abortion is murder.Punishment should be death penalty.
Life starts from the moment of conception.

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_Angie_

@_Angie_

Rocker

Posted: 12 years ago

#25

Originally posted by: ItIsMyLife
Abortion is murder.Punishment should be death penalty.
Life starts from the moment of conception.

Could you please specify death penalty for whom exactly ?

* edited for typo

Edited by _Angie_ - 12 years ago

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return_to_hades

@return_to_hades

Stunner

+ 6

Posted: 12 years ago

#26

Originally posted by: _Angie_

Could you please specfify death penalty for whom exactly ?

That is an interesting question.

Who should be executed - The mother or the doctor?

What in the case of mothers who are minors?

If the father, friends and family know and support, are the accessories to murder. What should their sentence be?

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Aisha

@MOTHERHOOD

Stunner

+ 10

Posted: 12 years ago

#27

Originally posted by: _Angie_

Could you please specify death penalty for whom exactly ?

* edited for typo

The Hospital Authority
The Doctor
The Mother Unless She is Forced
The Father Unless He Wants the Kid

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_Angie_

@_Angie_

Rocker

Posted: 12 years ago

#28

Originally posted by: ItIsMyLife

The Hospital Authority
The Doctor
The Mother Unless She is Forced
The Father Unless He Wants the Kid

Thats whole lot of a people put on death penalty for aborting someone yet to be born ! How pro life is that ?

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return_to_hades

@return_to_hades

Stunner

+ 6

Posted: 12 years ago

#29

Originally posted by: ItIsMyLife

The Hospital Authority
The Doctor
The Mother Unless She is Forced
The Father Unless He Wants the Kid

So in essence a four murders to punish one murder? Interesting.

Are there exceptions cases of rape, incest or serious fatality risk?

So who would count as hospital authority - the entire board of directors? Would nurses, anesthesiologists and the entire surgery team face death sentence as well?

But anyway, if abortion is illegal then I doubt hospitals would do it.

What about a fourteen year old girl who does the coat hanger abortion?

What if it was a back alley abortion and the quack clinic team is AWOL?

So if a mother slips and falls at Wal-Mart resulting in a miscarriage, she can sue the store for negligent homicide?