491 Babies Born Alive After Failed Abortions - Page 10

Created

Last reply

Replies

97

Views

7.3k

Users

11

Likes

67

Frequent Posters

return_to_hades thumbnail
19th Anniversary Thumbnail Stunner Thumbnail + 6
Posted: 12 years ago
#91

@ POH

Couple of things a brain dead person is 100% dead legally, morally, socially any which way which. A human being cannot live if the brain is completely switched off. What you probably refer to is coma or permanent vegetative state where a person is very much alive but brain functionality is limited. This situation is better left for a euthanasia debate because there are several scientific and philosophical differences between fetuses and a person in coma.

As Charming Genie has mentioned, a person in coma has experienced life and built attachments. There are also varying degrees of conscious activity, bodily functions and movement that while not equivalent to a fully functional human being are not as primordial or carte blanche as a fetus.

Finally a fetus is something that is within a woman, relying on her womb to even develop into a person. That is why it is a woman's choice on what happens within her womb. A person in coma is already a person who has lived a life, relying on medical apparatus and services to live. That is why it is a matter of consensus between family, caregivers and doctors as to what is to be done. We cannot confuse a single person's right over their body with a social decision over emotions and resources.

return_to_hades thumbnail
19th Anniversary Thumbnail Stunner Thumbnail + 6
Posted: 12 years ago
#92

Pro-Life: Life is precious, only as a fetus. After that who cares, you might as well die than leech on entitlements. You cannot kill yourself, but we hope suffer as long as possible with your terminal illness and make your lazy family go broke in the process.

Pro-choice: Life is precious. Lets all respect each other as people and work together for better society.

Sorry, gross generalization, but if you followed American politics you would get it.

charminggenie thumbnail
17th Anniversary Thumbnail Stunner Thumbnail + 2
Posted: 12 years ago
#93

Originally posted by: Beyond_the_Veil



I think we need to be clear what is pro life and what is pro choice?

Can one be morally pro-life but legally pro-choice? Will he be termed pro-choice because the essence of pro-choice is respecting individual right to abort regardless of moral views?

Can a pro-choice have legal objections to certain types of abortions but still be pro-choice? Or should a pro-choice always have to support individual right to abortion?



Well these questions are very subjective and my point will defer from yours, will just write what i represent , yes I am a Pro-choice, as i stand for individual rights and for no legal laws for abortion. At the same time I make sure my moral compass, personal view and compassion are free from my stand, i personally wont make the choice but i wont judge the action or the person making the same.
344471 thumbnail
Posted: 12 years ago
#94

Originally posted by: return_to_hades

Pro-Life: Life is precious, only as a fetus. After that who cares, you might as well die than leech on entitlements. You cannot kill yourself, but we hope suffer as long as possible with your terminal illness and make your lazy family go broke in the process.

More like pro-fetus-life but anti-human-life then! 😆

Pro-choice: Life is precious. Lets all respect each other as people and work together for better society.

Wait - even pro-choice can be misinterpreted. 😆

Sorry, gross generalization, but if you followed American politics you would get it.

*Woh Ajnabee* thumbnail
18th Anniversary Thumbnail Stunner Thumbnail
Posted: 12 years ago
#95

Originally posted by: return_to_hades


Pro-Life: Life is precious, only as a fetus. After that who
cares, you might as well die than leech on entitlements. You cannot kill
yourself, but we hope suffer as long as possible with your terminal illness and
make your lazy family go broke in the process.



Pro-choice: Life is precious. Lets all respect each other as
people and work together for better society.



Sorry, gross generalization, but if you followed American
politics you would get it.




Gross, indeed! Pro-life is also equal opportunity. How can you say with such authority that a given fetus will develop into a bad citizen who will provide nothing to his or her family, community or society? Sometimes liberals get so caught up in promoting their modern ideology that they forget a line has to be drawn somewhere! Until you give that fetus a chance to develop into an individual, you'll never know what he becomes.

Leave it to RTH to bring me into a debate! Haha. This is all I can type from my phone, y'all.
return_to_hades thumbnail
19th Anniversary Thumbnail Stunner Thumbnail + 6
Posted: 12 years ago
#96

You get that the statement was more tongue-in-cheek than factual right? 😆

I don't think making abortion illegal or even equating it to murder is a pragmatic solution. But I do believe there are ways to prevent and minimize both unwanted pregnancies and abortion – and give every potential human a fair chance.

And quit stalking me. 😛

_Angie_ thumbnail
17th Anniversary Thumbnail Rocker Thumbnail
Posted: 12 years ago
#97

Originally posted by: Beyond_the_Veil



I think we need to be clear what is pro life and what is pro choice?

Can one be morally pro-life but legally pro-choice? Will he be termed pro-choice because the essence of pro-choice is respecting individual right to abort regardless of moral views?

Can a pro-choice have legal objections to certain types of abortions but still be pro-choice? Or should a pro-choice always have to support individual right to abortion?

I dont think its practical to be an out and out pro life or pro choice .
Each case needs to be seen in its context.
return_to_hades thumbnail
19th Anniversary Thumbnail Stunner Thumbnail + 6
Posted: 12 years ago
#98

I also wanted to add to some issues WA raised.

Not every pro-choice argument is based on utilitarianism or the future prospects of the child. The primary arguments are a woman's sovereignty over her own body and the fundamental difference between a fetus and a human.

I happen to be in the group that has utilitarian views as well. And the hole in our utilitarian theory is that hypothetically if we have irrefutable proof that the fetus will grow into someone who will cure Cancer and AIDS, then the mother has to bear the child even if she wishes to abort. Such a scenario would not be pro-choice.

At the same time a pro-life person cannot claim that their stance is based on "fair chance". The primary argument is based on the sanctity of human life and that there is no philosophical difference between a fetus and human life. A fair chance theory will need to be tossed out if there is statistical data for the contrary.

Also to put the gross generalizations in context. I cannot speak for all across the world, but this is very true in the American political landscape. A lot of the conservatives who oppose abortion and euthanasia also oppose welfare, education grants, low income project housing, subsidized health care and many such social services. They deem it as entitlement. They believe that people who cannot afford to take care of themselves or their family are stupid, lazy and society should not support them. The opposition to social infrastructure is contradictory to a pro-life claim. It prohibits abortion and euthanasia, but at the same time refuses to give people the means to sustain a healthy productive lifestyle.

On the other hand liberals who support abortion and euthanasia do support social infrastructure. Supporters of abortion don't promote it or encourage it. No one wants to hand abortions out like candy. No one is telling poor people, single mothers etc that they should not have children. It should be a carefully considered decision after weighing all the options. Should people lacking resources choose to have a child it is not the child's fault. Society needs to chip in so that the child can get food, medical care, education and opportunities. Should a child be born with medical problems or get one down the road, it should not be a lottery whether the family can afford it or not, people should not have to go broke or neglect other responsibilities to fulfill a moral obligation. Society needs to chip in if everyone who deserves and wants to live, gets that chance to live.

The other thing I don't get is the conservative argument against condoms, birth control and morning after pills. If you are so opposed to abortion, wouldn't you want to prevent unwanted pregnancy at least?

Related Topics

Top

Stay Connected with IndiaForums!

Be the first to know about the latest news, updates, and exclusive content.

Add to Home Screen!

Install this web app on your iPhone for the best experience. It's easy, just tap and then "Add to Home Screen".