Freedom of expression/Inflaming religious senti's - Page 8

Originally posted by: Aya.

1st: I've said I have half knowledge. If I don't know something, I'll read the Quran or I'll ask my parents who know more than I.

2nd: Prophet Mohammad said it's a sin, but you've also forgotten that Allah loves to forgive & accepts repentance anytime, anywhere.

3rd: I've said speak of the Quran only. Not even the Talmud. I don't believe in the Talmud. I believe in the Quran & the Quran clearly says the verse is for mankind.

4th: We don't follow Imams. The only people that follow Imams are Shi'as, but in Islam there's no such thing as Shi'a/Sunni. Even some of the Hadiths are made up, but I'm not going to deny the one you posted, because the Quran does talk about how great of a sin it is to set up a rival unto Allah though He Alone Created you.

I don't what to get off topic anymore, so I hope we're done now, because you'll deny the stuff I present to you & I'll deny the stuff that you present to me & we'll just be going in circles.

Peace.

Originally posted by: Aya.

@Rehanism

Islam is a religion of Peace. It's not an opinion. It's a fact !

There are good & bad people in this world. Blame humanity ! Not religion ! Religion has nothing to do with this ! It's us humans !

You & others can try so hard to change the verses of the Quran, but the truth is, you won't ever be able to do so, because millions of people memorize the Quran BY HEART !

Originally posted by: Aya.

The Quran challenges mankind many times to produce, even a simple verse like it. In it's own language of course, which is Arabic. & til now now no one has ever done so. Actually, some have tried, but sadly, they failed.

Originally posted by: Rehanism

Yes, Allah does accept repentance for the 'sin' of not worshiping him exclusively or worshiping other gods, but then repentance, in Islamic lexicon, literally means conversion to Islam (which is the only religion acceptable to Allah). Which in turn means that non-Muslims are not innocent in Allah's eyes - they remain the worst of sinners unless they become Muslims - which was my point in the first place.

Originally posted by: Aya.

The Quran challenges mankind many times to produce, even a simple verse like it. In it's own language of course, which is Arabic. & til now now no one has ever done so. Actually, some have tried, but sadly, they failed.

Originally posted by: wanker

Perfect explanation, I've been trying to explain this to every Muslim who says Muslim is tolerant to other religion blah blah blah...

My POV is that Muslim who have been bought up with Quran can't look at it in other perspective and it's true when you think logically you can see Islam/Allah is against non-believers. Even the law on Jizya (tax), why does Quran say non-muslim have to pay tax when clearly it is against any interest/tax (which is classed as "Haram" money).

Originally posted by: Beyond_the_Veil

As for considering Infidels as sinners who'd burn all their lives in hell-fire, yes that's saddening. If there is a God, I think it follows logically he'd judge people and reward or punish them based more on their deeds and not their creed. In fact this makes me wonder, not just Islam, but why does most major religions put so much weight on rituals/tradition than humanities?

Have you ever considered that it is not the religion, but humans themselves who ignore humanity? After all religion is practiced, preached and passed on by humans. How we interpret it is completely human. All Muslims/Christians/etc etc. read the same Holy Book barring a few version differences. Yet you have a multitude of sects, sub sects interpretations – some violent, some peaceful, some in between.

The problem I see in this thread is that the Muslims are completely fixated on "their religion" while the others on "free speech". We will keep hitting stubborn frustrating dead ends until we are able to empathize with the opposing viewpoint. We have to step outside our belief systems and see what the other person values and build arguments that consider those perspectives.

Although I am one to preach. I'm the one who probably lit the biggest forest fire of DM that got locked multiple times, finally with the head honcho himself. 😆 Man that was quite some drama for an unintentional faux pas!!!

Originally posted by: return_to_hades

What I find interesting about this movie is that it was released in early August and no one knew about it. All of a sudden it was put on Youtube close to 09/11 and the used to incite people. I 100% agree that the film is a blatant abuse of freedom of speech. At the same time I feel that there is something fishy about the events that played out.

The anger against the United States in this case is completely unjustified.
- The filmmaker is originally an Egyptian Coptic Christian
- He actually lied to the actors about what the film was about and put it together shadily
- Despite freedom of speech guarantee in the states, the Feds have arrested the guy and held him for probation
- The White House directed Google to remove the movie and trailer based on their content policy - but it is Google who has refused citing freedom of speech.

I mean what else is the United States supposed to do?

Regarding the violence - had an American army base or military outpost been attacked, I would have understood it as an angry reaction. At least the violence would be directed at people who are there to fight and can fight. It is such cowardice to attack diplomats - unarmed peaceful people who are there to build relationships.

Regarding freedom of speech - It is one thing to hate a religion and want to speak to your mind. Yes you have the right to speak your mind - but at what cost? There are thousands of good people from US and the West who live in Muslim countries. They work there, they have friends there.They bear no hatred or ill will. But when people sitting safe in their country or behind their computers post hateful messages on the internet - they don't just insult others, they put thousands of good people at risk. It ends up being the US people abroad who pay with the price of their life. If the filmmaker has the guts to make the movie then why not face the consequences - why try and hide. Why let innocent people die for your freedom of speech?

The most I feel sorry for is Chris Stevens and his family. He was a good man and a good ambassador. He spent much of his time in the Middle East. He spoke Arabic fluently and was committed to bridging the gap between US and the Middle East. He was learning Farsi because he dreamed of being the first diplomat back to Tehran when US could reestablish amicable ties with Iran. The common people in Benghazi really respected him and believed he would do them good in rebuilding the nation. The violent protesters did not kill any enemies - they killed their closest ally instead.