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200467

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Posted: 15 years ago

#291

Originally posted by: DM01

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200467

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Posted: 15 years ago

#292

Originally posted by: DM01

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200467

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Posted: 15 years ago

#293

Originally posted by: DM01

I know where you are coming from. If a sootputra was not good enough for her then a poor brahmin should not be eligible either. However, she was never meant to be Karna's wife. Krishna was present in that swayamvar to ensure Arjun and Draupadi get married. Karna and Draupadi's union was not meant to be.

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200467

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Posted: 15 years ago

#294

Originally posted by: DM01

Ok, then why did they take Kunti's word literally?.... I don't believe in all the "honouring the mother's words" excuse, it looks like they were all secretly lusting over her.

I feel that too😆

However, for debate's sake, I did provide you the stories justifying the background behind Draupadi being shared by all five. You provide me the support from MB stating remaining four pandvas pretended to honor Kunti's words because they lusted after Draupadi and I'll give this point to you😆

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200467

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Posted: 15 years ago

#295

Originally posted by: DM01

I get what your saying, but society's incorrect perception of them being the heirs of Hastinapura still doesn't make them kshatriyas by birth, otherwise society's perception is what determines a person caste, and not their acutal births, this means if society believes a person is a brahmana, but in reality he's a sudra, then he will be recognised as a brahmana.

Going by the exact same rationale - no one should get all het up with Draupadi if she refuses to percieve Karna to be a King based on the kingdom his buddy threw at him. She called him what the society knew him as - a sootputra. Given your own rationale here - Draupadi had the grounds to refuse to marry Karna.

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200467

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Posted: 15 years ago

#296

Originally posted by: DM01

Were Kauravas disrespectful to elders?, I don't quite remember, they may have not got along with Pandavas, but I don't remember they were disrespectful to elders, maybe they were but I'm not sure.

It's there throughout the book. One of the most prominent scene that brings forth the poles apart nature of Kaurvas and Pandavas is the one where Arjuna and Duryodhana went to Krishna to request him to be at their respective sides.

Krishna was taking a nap at that time. Duryodhna, in his arrogance, preferred to sit by his head where as Arjuna, in his humbleness, sits by Krishna's feet. When Krishna wakes up - he sees Arjuna first...........and rest, as they asy, is history.

MB is full of such instances right from the princes' childhood.

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200467

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Posted: 15 years ago

#297

Originally posted by: DM01

But if you show partiality to one group of kids at the expense of others, then what do you expect?, all kids get jealous when their newly born sibling arrives, and more attention is given to them, now imagine being partial towards them from early on, till all the way to adulthood, it isn't gonna help family cohesion.

DM01, you are again missing the point. One of the main reasons for Kurvas jelaousy was that pandavas were better than them at pretty much everything at gurukul. Duryodhan had a hard time digesting acknowledging this. He was lazy and arrogant. Instead of working hard, he played foul and was caught pretty much all the time. When he was scolded by the elders for his actions - he construed that as favoritism towards pandavas.

You gave the example of siblings here - even in our family, the kids get in trouble for breaking rules. If one sibling happens to do that lot more than others - he/she would get scolded by the parents more often than others too. You can't percieve that as partiality or favoritism.

The main culprit was Shakuni. He pretty much twisted each scolding and made it appear like partiality when it was really not partiality to begin with.

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Nupur

@Nupur9

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Posted: 15 years ago

#298

Maa Gauri...Tussi itha ho.......goodsiii!!
Ok I need to jump into this conversation too please....
Will first go through the back log & will come back on it......
Btw has any one read Palace of illusion?? Just wondering loud!

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200467

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Posted: 15 years ago

#299

Originally posted by: DM01

This is the problem, the translations I've read do not have Krishna present at the swayamvara, I remember watching B.R Chopra's version, and Krishna was present in that version, but when I read the text, he's not there.

I remember reading it in the versions I have read. King Drupad arranged the swyamvar's conditions in such a way that only Arjuna can accomplish the task. He secretly desired Arjuna for his daughter. But then the news about that fire where Kunti was deemed to be killed along with his sons spread and Drupad was heart broken.

On the day of swyamvar, Krishna arrived too but he let the king know that he is not there to take part in the swyam. He is there to offer his friendship to Draupadi. And he was preasent all along.

Draupadi mocked Karna and refused to marry him because she got the cue from Krishna. Krishna, being the god, knew the true intentions behind Karna's participation. When Arjun, in poor brahmin's vesh, accomplished the task, it was Krishna who nodded his head to let Draupadi know that this Brahmin is the right match for her.

So, Krishna did play a very important role in that swyamvara. Now, I am not claiming that the strategy used by Krishna were fair to Karna or Kaurvas. But then, I don't see MB having the same spirit as Ramayana. For me, MB teaches that skills and intellect matters but so does street smartness and that life is not fair. You lose some, you win some but over all it's your attitude that clinches the victory for you.

If they rated the literature in those era - ramayana would have been a "U" certificat where as MB would have been a "A" certificate bordering on ocassional soft po*n - remember that rishi in form of deer who got killed by Pandu😆

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Nupur

@Nupur9

Rocker

Posted: 15 years ago

#300

Pardon me, but I will back track here just a bit & just throw in some points here......
Draupadi refused Karna not out of her own will, but because she was instructed ahead of time to do so. Dhri her brother & Krishna had forewarned her that karna would be coming for the Sawayambar.
Next When Karna gets up to hit the target during the Sawayambar, krishan Shakes his head looking at Draupadi, indicating her to act, get up & refuse!
Coz if she would haveNOT done so.....MB would not be MB.

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