[D.O.T.W] 25-Oct-2010 to 30-Oct-2010 WEEK - Page 2

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debayon thumbnail
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Posted: 15 years ago
#11

Originally posted by: prabha.

@debayon Interesting post, I am surprised you came up with Prem Chopra's name for worst enacted Villain.

Yeah, I also mentioned the current villains, I mean, it really is very difficult to pinpoint any particular person as a villain. You can't possibly recall all the episodes you know. So I was looking at the major ones and found Prem Chopra to not have done such a good job, he seemed like he was whispring and it was hard to understand what he was saying, plus, I felt he had mismatched expressions.
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Posted: 15 years ago
#12
Q1) What is your view in this topic? Where do you think FW is faltering in giving us solid villains.

I think they are not thinking like criminals. If their writers just once think if they are in criminals shoes how will they do task so that not caught by law then one will see how creative ideas they will come up with. They write stories from point of view of CID how easy work cane be made for them. So landing up with so called smart criminals leaving traces only. Traces should be left but show criminal smart also which make CID think beyond their experience. These days some episodes are such which are like cake walk for team.

Due to Biweekly they can't come up with smart criminals every time but they are not coming up with smart criminals occasionally also these days.

Q2) Do you think have gone from bad to worse as far as Villains in CID are concerned ?? The amount of traces they leave these days and yes agree with dr.fahmi the criminals repetition make things worst

Q3) What impression did the promo give you of HD ?? Did HD live upto your expectations ??

HD International Don. Very difficult for CID to nab him down. Never felt that I would witness a joker who n India didn't fear CID and in Paris was running for his life. this should be vice versa IMO.
For me HD was main reason along with Paris documentary that AC finale ruined

Q4) What about Criminals during normal cases, how do you think they are being characterized ??
Sometimes I doesn't fell like they can even murder anyone and they end up doing 2-3 murders. Its not that they are so difficult to guess but sometimes not digestible even. Criminals (along with cops) are backbone of crime story. Criminals plays the major role but nowadays in normal cases never felt anything like this. Either criminal is just sidelined or is more focused making it easier for audience.

5) Who has been the best and worst Villain in CID so far and why? Which actor rose above the script and created a better Villain purely on performance?

this will answer later. I need time to recall.





Jurassic_Shark thumbnail
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Posted: 15 years ago
#13
Q1) What is your view in this topic? Where do you think FW is faltering in giving us solid villains.

I think the villain is an integral part of any episode and has a major role in the overall impact the episode has on the audience. I think that portraying the role of a frightening and stone-cold villain that the audience hates is a really hard job and not something which everyone can pull off, so it needs to be looked into very carefully and have both the casting and writing done properly. I'm not sure which of these departments FW is faltering at, but either due to poor casting or a below average job on the side of the writers (or both), it's been a long time since we've had a remarkable villain in CID. I'm not just talking about the villains being average, some of them do things so stupid and unrealistic that in real life, they wouldn't last long against any security constable outside a mall, let alone eluding the CID. The sense of dread, slyness and sheer cold determination of a villain we've had in the Golden Age criminals has largely been missing here.

Q2) Do you think have gone from bad to worse as far as Villains in CID are concerned ??

Worse is an understatement. To emphasize this a bit, I'd like to mention the "average" criminal we saw back in the 2001-2004 episodes. How about that abusive husband who CID manages to stop just in time from killing his family? (can't remember the episode name, sorry). Or those drug-trafficking scumbags who attack Abhijeet in "Undercover Cop"? Or the Ravi Kumar guy who takes undue advantage of his former employee and eludes CID with a slimy ease? I don't think any of these would qualify to be called an International Don, and yet each and every one of them was more intimidating than the so-called "International Don" Herpes Dongaru we saw in the AC series. Ab Don ji ka hi ye haal hai, to sochiye ki aam criminal kaisa hoga. I think there are some very important qualities of a villain that always need to be kept in mind when sketching out the character. This is vital in order to create a convincing antagonist. I'll list these in the answer to the fourth question.

Q3) What impression did the promo give you of HD ?? Did HD live upto your expectations ??

Quite honestly, the promo was truly well made and, ironically, equally misleading. The person portraying HD in the promo had a cold, icy demeanor and calm/rational sense of determination to carry out what he wants, which are important qualities of a crime lord. The promo gave the impression that we were about to see the Moriarty of CID - a cunning, well-connected and highly elusive villain who would rise up to give CID a really hard challenge and prove to be called their arch-nemesis. And with proper writing, this goal wasn't very hard to achieve because Mahesh sir is a great actor and very capable of it IMO.

The HD we got in the final episode was not even eligible to be called the leader of a gang of bhais in the local blue-collar bar, let alone a villain. His characterization was about as scary as a jackrabbit and he showed as much slyness as a part-time pickpocket. What kind of evil villain openly kills his own followers in their midst and leaves his real enemies alive and to chance? It's not a long-term survival strategy. Not to mention that these Dons never operate alone; big sharks always swim with other big sharks and indulge in favour swapping. We saw this in the promo where HD contacts a Don in Shanghai, but this wasn't even mentioned in the actual series. And for the aptness in action he showed in the final AC episode, this guy would've been dead at the hands of any teenage mugger from a bad area. HD was truly a letdown because of poor writing and characterization, and a major missed opportunity.

Q4) What about Criminals during normal cases, how do you think they are being characterized ??

Like I said before, jab International Don HD saab ka hi ye haal hai, it's not hard to imagine what the "average" criminal is going to be like. Not only do they make the worst and most suicidal mistakes and show a really poor sense of planning, but the scene of a seemingly decent middle-aged man or young college student suddenly pulling out a revolver and "transforming" into a villain is positively hilarious.

I think the qualities required for a convincing, challenging and threatening villain I mentioned above are largely missing from these criminals we've been seeing recently. Here are a few examples I'd like to mention -

Here are some I can think of -

a) Selfishness. On first read this might appear like something ordinary, but actually this a VERY important characterstic of a villain. The basic funda of this point is, "my need is greater than yours". Meaning the villain is ready to go to any length to obtain what he wants, even if it means killing someone. The mindset arising from such a determination is subtly visible in the vibes the person gives off, and this should be hinted at both in the script and by the actor.

b) There should be a clear distinction between an amateur criminal and a professional villain. In other words, a nausikiya criminal will make mistakes which the pro will not. A good example is the servant in the "Clue In The Ashes" episode forgetting to dispose of the shoes after making the false footprints. But the pros know exactly how to elude the police, remove evidence and clues, lie to the cops, threaten or bribe witnesses, spread false trails and misleading clues, keep their allies from babbling the truth, etc - because they are experienced and know exactly how to do it. And yet, on the show we see some amateurs do some professional-quality work (before making equally stupid mistakes too) and the pros behaving like amateurs (like HD). This unevenness makes the villain in question unconvincing.

c) The villain should be believable. Even an amateur doesn't resort to using risky and unreliable methods like a poisoned cricket ball or javelin to commit murder, which are very unlikely to work and will also draw suspicion to them. And staying at the scene of crime after committing the deed, unless absolutely necessary, is suicidal. The criminals want to do their job in the quickest, easiest and most reliable/risk-free way possible. Here, too, the distinction between amateurs and pros applies. We need smart criminals with a sharp brain who give tough challenges to CID.

Also, it is simply beyond most normal and civilized people to commit horrendous acts like mutilating a body without hesitation. Even if they do, they would be psychologically affected and it will be clearly visible in their behaviour (something that isn't going to be hidden from the sharp eyes of our trio!). And yet exactly the opposite is being shown in the newer episodes. It doesn't help that a lot of the actors being cast as villains do a pretty poor job too.

5) Who has been the best and worst Villain in CID so far and why? Which actor rose above the script and created a better Villain purely on performance?

I'd say that the best performance as a villain has been by none other than our own Aditya sir, as Paresh in "Stolen Gun" and the impostor Abhijeet (Rocky) in Beherupiya. His stone-cold performance and fierce responses to his opponents (and a perfect performance of the sympathetic side of the former) have been really unparalleled so far. Rahil Azam as Nakul comes next, who did a great job as the sly, sarcastic and taunting son of ACP sir, the latter finally being forced to shoot him. Other favourites are the cannibal from "Man Eater" (can't remember his name), Aman Verma's character from "Return Of The Jewel Thief", and the guy who plays Robin in "CID at ransom".

As for worst, the list is too long. I guess either our new HD saab or the Don from "Don's Final Revenge" take the cake. 😉
Edited by DemonStar - 15 years ago
visrom thumbnail
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Posted: 15 years ago
#14
Demonstar, I wanted to mention Rocky as my fav villain, you spoke my mind. :-) I'll post my reply once my laptop is fully up.
somu_05 thumbnail
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Posted: 15 years ago
#15
HOw badly i wanted to say Rockyy...!! But the only reason being... Heheh its very strange to Call "One of our fav cops" a Villian..!! LOl so i avoided..!! definitely... RocKy Rocks..."As a Villian."..!! as i mentioned in my post.. what we want from a villian is that we hate him because of his character... and we completed Hated Rocky for what he did to Abhi sir and Daya sir....!!!!
visrom thumbnail
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Posted: 15 years ago
#16

Q1) What is your view in this topic? Where do you think FW is faltering in giving us solid villains.

To start with, the stories are very weak and most stories have a 'khooni' - a murderer who has killed someone for the silliest of reasons. They cannot be classified as 'villains'. And these khooni roles are played by some very bad actors who are probably struggling to find a role in a TV serial and maybe FW is able to hire them for a paltry amount. Also FW is using Satish Dubey and Shachindra Vats in some roles, which means they have a very tight budget. They are ok with blowing up money on an Evening in Paris, but stingy when it comes to hiring good actors.
There are very few stories which have a proper 'Villain' - a powerful character who can evoke fear among the audience. We have had some villains like the Don in 'Don's Final Revenge' or 'Dr O' or Milind Gunaji in 'The blackmail victims' (not sure about episode name), Pavan Malhotra in a few episodes. Pavan Malhotra was very good in most of them especially in 'Dishonest Cop' and Ashutosh Gowarikar's last episode. Some of them were bad like Shahbaaz Khan in Don's final revenge, which was an example of a good actor being made to act in a bad role. They could have made this Don much better.
We need good stories which have scope for good actors to perform. The good actors are not going to come in to play simple, stupid khoonis.

Q2) Do you think have gone from bad to worse as far as Villains in CID are concerned ??

Yes, the latest HD was a very classic example. The villain shown in the promo was a sophisticated scary guy talking in a very stylish manner to his associates in various countries, but when we finally saw him, he turned out to be a local pocketmaar or one of those 'agents' outside a govt office who get jobs done for a small price. This was absolutely deflating. FW just screwed up the characterisation of the villain. It's very clear that they had no solid script before the series started. They decided on who is to play the character at the 11th hour - the reason why his face was hidden till AC 8.

Prior to this the proper villain I can remember is in an episode I don't want to talk about. That villain looked like a joker too and not someone who can frame ACP Pradyuman.
Going further back, it was Aditya sir as Rocky and he really rocked.


Q3) What impression did the promo give you of HD ?? Did HD live upto your expectations ??

Honestly from the promo and the style of talking I was reminded of the villain in Zanjeer - Ajit Khan. I don't know why, but after reading Sunny's story, I realised that Sunny's villain came very close to the image I had in mind.

HD did not live upto my expectations. A definite NO. He was nowhere close to what the word 'villain' means to me.


Q4) What about Criminals during normal cases, how do you think they are being characterized ??

Is there any characterization? They look like normal people like us. I can't imagine a lady of my mom's age and size lifting the body of a hefty man, putting him into an electric saw and slicing it and then throwing one half into the sea and preserving another half in the house. And then she wears lovely wedding clothes and goes to her daughter's engagement ceremony as if nothing has happened. No trace of fear or nervousness on her face. Absolutely stupid and unbelievable.

We know CID is a work of fiction and there will be some unbelievable stuff to entertain us, but it shouldn't go too far.

5) Who has been the best and worst Villain in CID so far and why? Which actor rose above the script and created a better Villain purely on performance?
Good villains - As Demonstar mentioned, Aditya sir as Paresh and Rocky was excellent. Just look at those expressions he makes as Paresh and the manner in which Rocky sits in the bureau and plays with the gun. Wonderful performance by a great actor.
Apart from him, I think Pavan Malhotra did a good job in 'Dishonest Cop' and Ashutosh Gowarikar's last episode. The Vanishing magician was a bad one by Pavan Malhotra, but it was more of the story's fault. Pavan Malhotra did a decent job even there. Milind Gunaji was good in Blackmail victims. Murli Sharma as Dr O was good too.
Bad ones - HD would top the list now. ACP's friend and Don of Don's Final Revenge would be a joint second. The simple looking bespectacled guy in Khooni Khel was very bad. Can't imagine such a guy committing cold blooded serial murders. He is a regular face in CID and the moment we see him we can guess that he's the killer. This guy should be shown the door. This list is very long.
The last question - who rose above the script??? I would choose Murli Sharma as Dr O. The story was plain stupid. But he rose above it. He was much much better than HD - sophisticated and scary.
Edited by visrom - 15 years ago
monika21 thumbnail
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Posted: 15 years ago
#17
Q1) What is your view in this topic? Where do you think FW is faltering in giving us solid villains.
a good topic for discussion. standard of villain is very important for a crime detection serial or movie. and especially in CID as the show made history. the reason is bi-weekly format, poor script and i think as the CID and its cast is already popular and set standards FW people are not concern about the villain's role.

Q2) Do you think have gone from bad to worse as far as Villains in CID are concerned ??

yepp...the quality of villains decreasing day-by-day. Lets take AC series as an example as it is the latest one forget the HD even the lady villain (who was involved in the kidnapping parts) was also not at all good. Her dialogue delivery was just'🤢

Q3) What impression did the promo give you of HD ?? Did HD live upto your expectations
??
totally a misleading or we can say fake promos. In the promos the he was a Don rather International Don but after AC8 it turned into a Joker, a typical roadside gunda sort of. machli jal ki rani poem was good for him.....totally fusss... 😔 all the expectations were shattered.😕

Q4) What about Criminals during normal cases, how do you think they are being characterized ??

they are normal people like us. no specification at all. even a child can guess who will be the accused. and in few cases a 50-55 yrs old lady acted as a killer, though she was a housewife but still she killed somebody, and what will say... laash ko thikaane bhi laga deti hai.. OMG plz. stop this nonsense.

5) Who has been the best and worst Villain in CID so far and why? Which actor rose above the script and created a better Villain purely on performance?

well it will be difficult for me to recall but i like shahbaz khan as villain (forget the episode) was doing mimicry in the whole episode but he was good and second the villain from man-eater. he was really very scary. the worst villain none other than HD... i think adi sir can play the best villain's role also as we saw him as Rocky & in AC part8.


Edited by monika21 - 15 years ago
sneh. thumbnail
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Posted: 15 years ago
#18

Q1) What is your view in this topic? Where do you think FW is faltering in giving us solid villains?

Well I don't know why but somehow these days FW has no proper villains to portray, when it comes to villains, we notice the person either behaving like a psychotically challenged person or having a weird laughter. The reason behind this might be the characterization in itself, you call it over excretion, tiredness or out of idea, everything basically holds bi-weekly responsible. But bi-weekly is not the only reason, the main reason according to me is FW's attitude towards their stories; they never make an attempt to read back their stories which messes everything. Thus actors had nothing specific to put and the result is awful performance. For instance:- We had Pawan Malhotra doing a decent job in Dishonest Cop while same Pawan Malhotra messing it around with The Case of Vanishing Magician.

Q2) Do you think have gone from bad to worse as far as Villains in CID are concerned ??

Visrom is So very right worse is specifically an understatement, now a days CID hires a bunch of NON ACTORS for supporting cast, the one turning out to be a khooni seems of not killing even a mosquito. The crimes have went from bad to worse, using a saw blade, cutting dead body into pieces and what not while the criminals doesn't seem to even hold the saw. Call it bad or worse but the depreciation is still continuing. That is the reason even if sometimes they hire good actors to portray the villains they are unable to leave the mark.

Q3) What impression did the promo give you of HD?? Did HD live upto your expectations??

The promo was MISLEADING. The promo gave us an impression of rocking series and to have a rocking series we wanted rocking actor to portray HD, when Mahesh Manjrekars name was revealed, even then I wasn't much dishearten. Though the series wasn't handled properly I had hatred for HD for what he has done to my trio Vivek, Freddy sir, Tasha. But when MR. HD standing in New York had a conversation with his man calling them pantar log my hopes turned into ashes. Thus HD turned one of the worst villain, he seemed more like a stupid mawali from Mumbai having no class.

Q4) What about Criminals during normal cases, how do you think they are being characterized??

As mentioned above the normal criminals are basically NON ACTORS I watch CID for my trio so I am actually bearing those FW think are criminals. For me they are not even actors. Sorry to say

5) Who has been the best and worst Villain in CID so far and why? Which actor rose above the script and created a better Villain purely on performance?

Best Villian:
I personally like Nakul (Rahil Azam) Rocky (imposter Abhijeet from Beehroopiya) but the best for me so far has been Kay Kay Menon from 111 as cruel as ever without having any weird laughter and pstchotic problems. As an actor he is superb and so he was as villain. He cold blooded as I wanted a villain to be.

Worst Villian: Well there is a long list for this which includes Pawan Malhotra from the case of vanishing magician, Murli Sharma from Dr. O's Treasure, Shabaz Khan from Don's Final Revenge. But the award of THE WORST VILLAIN IN CID goes to Mahesh Manjrekar for ruining all my hopes.😕

dr.fahmi thumbnail
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Posted: 15 years ago
#19
first of all thanx prabha, bhavna, somu and shagnika for bringing DOTW😊 . but why shagnika and bhavana are missing. looking forward to both of urs and prabha's discussion too. plus many other members are missing too where are they??🤔 sunny, visrom, monika, debyon, m_kal and sneha nice posts all of u. good to see some healthy constructive criticism. ravi no words for u. just👏👏
Edited by dr.fahmi - 15 years ago
Ambrosia thumbnail
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Posted: 15 years ago
#20
I'm really glad to see the DOTWs back in the section. Good job to Bhavanab and team👍🏼

I will post my answers in my next reply. And yes please volunteer for discussions/contents/games etc.

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