The Reading Group-Invites ONLY- 4 |p146|

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immunoblot

@immunoblot

Rocker

Posted: 15 years ago

#51

Originally posted by: RainbowWarrior

I agree with you.

Civilising a people is just a few steps away from imposing your own beliefs, ethnic cleansing and genocide. Who's to decide which civilization is the best example to follow?

I think our cultural diversity is the best thing we have. Can you imagine a world 100/200 years later, where everyone wears jeans and sings in a Hinglish accent only (or similar)? I love Scottish and Irish accents and a viking cartoon just wouldn't be the same without it and nor would Sean Connery.

The more a majority imposes their set of rules on the world, the more we lose out on cultures, languages, art and so many other things. There are so many places in the world where the people are living in peace, in harmony with nature that don't have a recognised system of education and yet they are far happier and together than those people who sell us their ideals.

Well, when they tried to "civilize", the world and India were not enlightened enough to know that the Indian civilization flourished while Europe drank from the horn... and that what was being sold to India and to the rest of the world by the imperialists was a fallacy...
Now don't you think that this wouldn't this have happened if India was more awake, and aware??
Had Indians been educated, could the imperialists have established the hold that they did? Had we not been a Nation steeped in prejudice (for all those diversely different from us), and darkness (of superstition and ritual dogma), don't you think, we'd have been better prepared against the might of the invaders??

RW ji, I think education and world unity are good things. It has its merits that cultures inter-mingle and people begin to respect others (by imitating them; and surely Hinglish can barely dominate, it sounds horrible!)... and nobody can impose anything on anyone these days... Unless the Scots and the Irish wish to lose themselves, they will preserve their accents. But change is necessary, and it isn't always brought about by oppression. The British are no longer speaking in the manner of Shakespearean tomes; or the way of Victorian literature...

@red: those are the people considered "backward". And, to be honest, I'd not want to be them. I like this life, and my individual identity...

Edited by immunoblot - 15 years ago

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immunoblot

@immunoblot

Rocker

Posted: 15 years ago

#52

Originally posted by: axeion
... @whole debate abt the 1^st, 2^nd and 3^rd world countries; US is fastly heading towards being a Socialist country, so don't worry, the 2^nd world would resurface soon!

There is a difference between Socialist and Communist. Germany and Denmark are socialist nations as well, but still a part of the first world.
The second world was communist (as different from socialist), so the second world of the future will be China. (The US isn't all that important anymore.)
In any case, this is not related to the book.

Smita ji, will you please find another question more relevant to the book now... 😃

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Veritas

@Veritas

Dazzler

Posted: 15 years ago

#53

Originally posted by: immunoblot

I tend to agree with what you say, RW ji... but I cannot bring myself to agree with the part in blue. So long as the belief system isn't founded on tyranny or hate, we wouldn't call it terrorism. Would we??

The Second World War was waged solely for political gains. And yet, the victors proclaimed their victory over the Fascists and Nazis... You see, it is all a matter of portrayal. Come to think of it, had the war not weakened the British empire, Bapu Gandhi would've carried on with his non-violent protests until the day he died, and imperialism and its exploitative hold over the world would not have ceased anywhere near the date it did. And yet we all hail Gandhi and hate Hitler (even though, the latter does deserve a small iota of praise for hurting the Empire and being slightly responsible for making the world go colony-free, as unintentioned as it may be...)

I think, if the "terrorists" adopt an approach where they can present their cause without causing grief to the innocent, they wouldn't be called "terrorists"... and in this regard one must separate a terrorist from a fundamentalist (Eastern, or Western)...

I agree with Blot ji here..and RWJI when you talk about how western countries took advantage of us...well every country is guilty of that..Look at what India does with its neigbours .
We are fighting over water
When it comes to countries or geopolitics..moral values ...righteousness ..justice don't count.
The bottom line is everyone is looking out for their own
Do you think common people in England during colonial era cared about what was happening to peole in India...about famines,floods ,epidemics..no.
As long as their standard of living was maintained they didn't care ,and this is true for everyone in the world.
We tend to identify ourselves by borders ,religions,languages and look out for our own.

what ever the faults of Western civilization I agree with their belief in individual freedom and propagation of democracy.

I am grateful to the british for abolishing Sati in the first place.. for working against the caste system and for bringing in modern education to our country.
All of our founding fathers had been given access to western education..they had been exposed to ideas that expanded their mind and world view.

Hence independent India gave all its citizens the right to vote..we didn't have to fight for women's suffrage because the battle had been fought for us somewhere else,and like wise we have to fight for people who can't fight for themselves.
Just because something has been going on for centuries does not mean it is right...
I quote Donald Symons here
"If only one person in the world held down a terrified, struggling, screaming little girl, cut off her genitals with a septic blade, and sewed her back up, leaving only a tiny hole for urine and menstrual flow, the only question would be how severely that person should be punished, and whether the death penalty would be a sufficiently severe sanction. But when millions of people do this, instead of the enormity being magnified millions-fold, suddenly it becomes 'culture', and thereby magically becomes less, rather than more, horrible, and is even defended by some Western 'moral thinkers', including feminists."

somethings are just not right and we shouldn't close our eyes because these masquerade as religion or culture.
When you talked about the couple..granted they were wrong,but if some loony expat thinks it was against his rights and decides to blow up the tallest building in Dubai...how right would that be.
you say it is made out to be big deal in Britain,but I will point you to another incident..France passed a law banning religious clothing in its state schools..it became a big issue and was debated everywhere in the world even in India.
They didn't target any community in particular...but that is how it was spread around.
Why wasn't it accepted as the law of the land and the right of a govt in deciding what happened in schools..they funded.

And I truly believe that violence is necessary,sometimes you cannot reason with people.
I think it is justified and for greater good if violence against few like Hitler,Pol pot,Idi amin ,Mugabe,Mussolini ..can save millions.

I tried to answer all the posts at once..pardon me.. If I rambled.

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Veritas

@Veritas

Dazzler

Posted: 15 years ago

#54

Originally posted by: immunoblot

There is a difference between Socialist and Communist. Germany and Denmark are socialist nations as well, but still a part of the first world.
The second world was communist (as different from socialist), so the second world of the future will be China. (The US isn't all that important anymore.)
In any case, this is not related to the book.

Smita ji, will you please find another question more relevant to the book now... 😃
i

I had to answer it myself before moving on 😊

I will come up with another question and post it soon😉

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Veritas

@Veritas

Dazzler

Posted: 15 years ago

#55

I am lifting a question directly from a reading guide
Here it goes
Much of the book is a meditation on what it means to be a foreigner assimilating with another culture. Discuss your own experiences with foreign cultures'things that you have learned, mistakes you have made, misunderstandings you have endured. 😛

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amyria

@amyria

Explorer

Posted: 15 years ago

#56

Veritasji its a good question👏

will answer you soon:)

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immunoblot

@immunoblot

Rocker

Posted: 15 years ago

#57

Originally posted by: Veritas
I am lifting a question directly from a reading guide
Here it goes
Much of the book is a meditation on what it means to be a foreigner assimilating with another culture. Discuss your own experiences with foreign cultures'things that you have learned, mistakes you have made, misunderstandings you have endured. 😛

Wonderful question... to start with it... I learnt that it is not alright to complain. All. The. Time.
People form snap judgments about you, and while in your own country, the judgment will only be about YOU; once abroad, the judgment will be to stereotype all others from your country.

In all other respects, life feels basically the same mostly... but that is probably because I have kept a distance from most desis, and remained open to friendships with people from all over... That already prepared me for any cultural misunderstandings. If you meet another person with a friendly heart, there is little that comes in the way of good will. People forgive mistakes made by friends easily, so I never noticed any "differences" in the culture/temperament of friends, and neither did anyone else point out any to me... (I have said enough tactless things, especially while speaking in German; and even in English... In fact, people used to wait for me to ask the most unfortunately uncomfortable questions, because I'd ask without thinking about what I am saying... but never once was I told-off for that!) Perhaps, that thing about political correctness... that is different. 😳

Edited by immunoblot - 15 years ago

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immunoblot

@immunoblot

Rocker

Posted: 15 years ago

#58

Originally posted by: amyria
Veritasji its a good question👏 will answer you soon:)

Finally, Amy ji... While Aladin ji is away, it seems like you are filling into her shoes... You've only been LIKING all the posts... 😆😆😆

And, if you are talking about a question related to the book, you don't have to use the green font colour... This post quoted here, could've been left without the green colour. 😃

Edited by immunoblot - 15 years ago

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Veritas

@Veritas

Dazzler

Posted: 15 years ago

#59

Originally posted by: immunoblot

Wonderful question... to start with it... I learnt that it is not alright to complain. All. The. Time.
People form snap judgments about you, and while in your own country, the judgment will only be about YOU; once abroad, the judgment will be to stereotype all others from your country.

In all other respects, life feels basically the same mostly... but that is probably because I have kept a distance from most desis, and remained open to friendships with people from all over... That already prepared me for any cultural misunderstandings. If you meet another person with a friendly heart, there is little that comes in the way of good will. People forgive mistakes made by friends easily, so I never noticed any "differences" in the culture/temperament of friends, and neither did anyone else point out any to me... (I have said enough tactless things, especially while speaking in German; and even in English... In fact, people used to wait for me to ask the most unfortunately uncomfortable questions, because I'd ask without thinking about what I am saying... but never once was I told-off for that!) Perhaps, that thing about political correctness... that is different. 😳

I directly landed from India to a job in the US and it was unnerving.
When you are going to college/school..you have time to assimilate,you make friends ,you have a chance to understand the lingo and everything ,but starting with a job is very different.

In India we have this thing about hierarchy..you respect your boss(even if he is wrong)or atleast pretend to.,even your teachers..and there is so much politics involved.
the work culture here is so vastly different and open it took me some time to adjust
But I was very lucky in my colleagues and superiors and everyone was very sweet.
I just got tired of explaining arranged marriages to them.😆
And the fact that most of them thought I was from Bangalore...they would be like...let me guess where you are from..Bangalore..and I would say yea just a little south of it😆

I realized people are generally nice and we are no different from the rest of them ,you just have to keep your mind open.

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axeion

@axeion

Stunner

+ 2

Posted: 15 years ago

#60

# 1
I grew up with classmates who believed, "Every Madrasi hates hindi speaking ppl!". Four years of engineering in Coimbatore and I love the Tamilians now! They are way better than the Hypocrites who call them Madrasi!
# 2
I was and am still good friends with this guy from Pakistan, and all my Desi friends give me stares as if I have committed the biggest sin of my life! He is a great guy and I don't see any harm in being friends with him. I am tired of explaining to them that not everyone is a member of L-e-T or Al-Q!
# 3
When exploring the back alleys of Medina, Marrakech…we met this shopkeeper who spoke to us for long explaining/inquiring various things and finally invited us to visit his house. It was the scary neighborhood, and one of the darkest alleys in the area, I was skeptical to go in, but decided to go…The entrance to his home was a small back door in his shop that goes down into the basement…The house was beautiful and lavish, equipped almost all the latest home-appliances! His daughter whom we had met upstairs looked more like a teenager who might have never even set her foot in the premises of a school…But I was in for a shock, she spoke flawless English! And also knew a lot about many other things, we ended up chatting for a long time!

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