Chanakya - Discussion..!!! {Link of Next Thread Updated on Page-1} - Page 12

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Kaana thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
@Maddy: where have you disappeared? Missing your discussion on the show. Pl jump in.
@ Radhika: please join this discussion initiated by Abhay. Would be lovely to hear your views.
@Sands: looking forward to your views too. And Sands, is Divya still around? I miss her Take 5 on Ashoka.
@Shyamala Aunty: Nice to see you here. Looking forward to your views on the Episodes. Can't wait:)
@Shivaaani: hope you heard me. Where are you? Not seeing you around for sometime. Trust your health is fine.
@Cleo: whenever you get time please join in
Edited by Kaana - 10 years ago
Sandhya.A thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago

Originally posted by: Kaana


By the way I am a proper Chennaite.

Same pinch again apart from being here primarily for Chanakya.

Coming to Chanakya's portrayal, I agree with you that it is not the same as before, quality is going down. I still like MJ, especially for his dialogue delivery and the calm frame. But, in the name of building suspense (Dharma's death track), Chanakya could leave an impression of being taken for granted. If you would have noted, I only said may leave an impression so, as to me it is not the impression yet, as I still Chanakya is largely at play. And why I feel so (based ony limited knowledge of the show from WUs, as I am not watching the show for a little more than a week now. So pl excuse for any flaws.)
- Dharma's (assumed) face is distorted. Why would Helena's killer distort her face, if the objective is only to get rid of her, which according to them has been accomplished anyway

The killers attack with tiger claws on the exposed body parts-the hands and the face. This is why the face gets distorted and not intentionally by the killer. This is again the argument put forth by Chanakya that it was a deliberate murder and not an accident killing by a tiger which would only attack the torso.

- how could Dharma know its a wrong route - she is knew to Pataliputra and has been one the palace, only with B all the time, though sadly as a dasi. Whereas Nirjara would know the route

point. But it is D (face shown) who says that it is a wrong route and then an arrow pierces the cart. She jumps and escapes. Later we are shown the back of a lady attacked by the killers.

- Nirjara is posted for Dharma's security and given the Bhakti to Magadh and Chanakya, these spies would not hesitate to give their lives

Since Nirjara doesn't come back, Radhagupt expresses concern if Nirjara was purchased by the killers. He orders that she be found.

- either Helena's D killing plan is fully known or atleast a potential threat is envisaged by Chanakya and so N could have been substituted- this also justifies why she knew the route and why her face was distorted

Chanakya doesn't seem to have plannned the whole thing at all. When B does anthim kriya, he thinks to himself- forgive me Devi D. I made the last days troublesome for you. Perhaps it is niyati that the man whose prem se you were vanchit is giving you agni.



So, summarily, I still have hopes and trust in CSA's Chanakya. If it turns otherwise, it is CSA's Chanakya who would have fallen anyway, my Chanakya will remain intact untouched!

I am scared to hope as i did for Akbar in Ben track. After Ratanpur Qila i was so sure that he had something up his sleeve and fell flat. So no hoping voping this time.😕


Kaana thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago

sob, sob. Why do you say so? Thanks again for the missed out points in my read. Nahi, I am not going to give hope. And am hopefully going to watch the episodes for him and see if there is any trace of hope.

But Sands, RG being worried about N not returning - could point out a planned role by N?
Edited by Kaana - 10 years ago
MaddyO thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago

Originally posted by: Kaana

@Maddy: where have you disappeared? Missing your discussion on the show. Pl jump in.
@ Radhika: please join this discussion initiated by Abhay. Would be lovely to hear your views.
@Sands: looking forward to your views too. And Sands, is Divya still around? I miss her Take 5 on Ashoka.
@Shyamala Aunty: Nice to see you here. Looking forward to your views on the Episodes. Can't wait:)
@Shivaaani: hope you heard me. Where are you? Not seeing you around for sometime. Trust your health is fine.
@Cleo: whenever you get time please join in



Hi Kaana, been really busy, hardly had time for forum. I just quickly read your Qs about current track.

I don't think Chanakya SO FAR is aware of the exact plot. (They wound up earlier tracks fast but since now the episodes are half hour it seems like tracks are taking longer).
He thinks Dharma was murdered but does not know why, his men are searching for Nirjara.

If Chanakya had known she is not Dharma, he would not have insisted on Bindusaar doing last rites.

Chankya got Bindusaar to do Dharma's last rites - apologizing to Dharma - saying what she did not get as her due when alive maybe her destiny to get it this way. (Ashoka had refused saying he knows Dharma is alive, he can feel it.)

It has to be Nirjara who died - they showed 2-3 fb scenes - Chanakya telling Radhagupta Nirjara was sent to protect Dharma - Radhagupta telling Nirjara to keep watch on Dharma at all times & to report to him everyday. They showed a very small scene of a woman walking into a hut.

I think this track is long drawn cos at the end maybe Ashoka Dharma reality - as Bindusaar's son & wife might be revealed.

Ashoka on finding Dharma will say she is alive - then her face will have to be shown - questions will be asked whose body it was?

Chankya has already said it was not an attack by tiger but was faked as one - so it was murder.

I think Bal Govind in his guilt might go to Chankya & confess telling Helena about Ashoka's mother in palace. For Nirjara's truth to come out - Chanakya has to meet & hear everything from Dharma.

They cannot show Ashoka going back & staying in jungle again - how long can they show this? So very soon Chankya has to know Dharma is alive. When Chankya will reveal this is to be seen. I guess by now he has to to know Dharma & Ashoka are not safer in being as commoners so he will have to reveal the truth.

RadhikaS0 thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
Friends,
Let's discuss the Dharma death track on the new thread Abhay started yesterday.

Here is the link:


My views on Pg 1 of the new thread, if anyone is interested 😊
RadhikaS0 thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
@Sandhya
Sorry for late response.

I started watching the old show again and enjoying it at the moment. :) Had loved Ashoka initially but now it's just dragging and getting on to my nerves. 😕
Kaana thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago

Headlines: Kaana's U Turn.😳

Folks, I would like to admit that I am making a U turn. Unlike our netas, firstly I accept that I am making one. Secondly, this U is not to save my image instead to tarnish my image, if any, hehehe😆

Those of you who would have read my previous post, in response to Abhay in this thread, regarding Chanakya's character dilution would recollect that I had made a statement that Chanakya should be aware of the truth behind Dharma (that she is not dead) and that he is taking advantage of the current belief. Thanks to Maddy and Sandhya, who opened my eyes to reality, explaining the proceedings of the episode in detail, thereby making me watch the show, which I had ignored for sometime. So, post my watching, here is my take. If you would notice, my stance would be the same, but argument would be different 😉

A quick recap on this track:

Dharma's death - kshadyantra being suspected now, finally.

CAS Samraat's reaction: Believed the tiger's attack, not sure if he even paused to see if there was any tiger footprints in the area of attack. He could have easily deduced an attack and Dharma trying to escape. Invariably, he never seem to use his intelligence in any case, if he had any in the first place. He believes others initially, when Chanakya argues he believes him. What an impressive king! Anyway, yet again, he needed the extra intelligence from Chanakya to know how animals attack. But I suppose we can't blame him, maybe, he only knows to attack them in the name of hunting. When I saw the metal claws, the thought that occurred to me was the distance betn the claws did not make sense. Not that I have held a tiger's foot in my hand, but this is my sense of the animal's foot. And our dude yet again missed the point. He was only worried that he has not protected her in the first place. And ofcourse the point of not a limb having gone from her body, which did not seem to have any blood around it but for few scratches. And our king did not even check if she is alive, he looked at her face (which he had to clear himself and not any attendant) and declared her dead. Heights - he gave a vachan that he will take her son as his responsibility, when he has no clue if he is alive, let alone know who and where he is. Give me a breaaak!

And the limit - the overreaction as the king having failed to protect a daasi under his protection, of whose absconding he was not even aware, let alone he being responsible then (he did not seem to worry about the fellow who was attacked by the tiger - to argue on the same ground). And if he felt he is responsible for her specially, what special care has he arranged for then? Don't over dramatize duty please - thegattaradu (for Sands J). I wonder if the dukha of loosing, nay protecting her, has overtaken his kingly duty of assessing the situation first.

Saamraat's response to Charumitra was good.

CAS Dharma: Obviously she cannot react to her death. But she could have reacted correctly in the first place. I don't know what stopped her from removing her anklets, which made its presence known, which was anyway not known to others surprisingly in the silent jungle.

Nirjara: The face shown close up is not of Dharma, not Dharma (I am saying like Ashoka now) - its quite obvious. Also Nirjara is more slender than Dharma - but I suppose we cannot get into this much minutes in a show, so never mind. The CVs have left clues for the viewers also. There were gaps in showing Dharma, maybe she was running after meeting N also, which we might have thought her to be running away from the assasins.

CAS Queen mother and her noble son: Expected reaction, but too much in public. I wonder how come always none catch them right on their exchanges and reveling revealing reactions! Queen's reaction when Chanakya was proving that it is a kshadyantra in the court, looked as if "how I wish Chanakya was on my side, atleast I had someone as smart as him with me".

CAS Mahaamatya: I think he should resign his post gracefully, even if refusing to be insulted by Chanakya, worse Charumitra, atleast for his incapability. He never seem to have figured out anything, and especially unwilling if it's a royal affair, in all sense 😉

Sushim: I can tolerate even Charumitra, but I think it would be nice to give him some vacation. Standard comments and action. As if the aspiring raja has no other job than to keep going behind Ashoka and trying to insult him. Please show him a little matured. Let him be black, pure black if you want, but not a bake (fool in tamil)

CAS Charumitra: I actually liked her standing up for her rights. She was pretty open and straight in putting forth her points. Also, appreciate the way she pulled up Mahamatya and tried to get him on her side.

CAS Ashoka: Shows yet another trait of Ashoka - he listens to his antaraatman. If he is not convinced, he does not get carry away by whatever others say, whomever it may be. He wants to ascertain it himself. Yes he seem to be overwhelmed, still this cannot be ruled out. And Sid kid has done a fantastic job in expressing his anguish and anger. Kudos Kiddo! You definitely have a bright career ahead!⭐️👍🏼👏

Balgovind: Nice depiction of his emotions showing the blood stained coins.👏

CAS Radhagupta: I am not sure how he is going to be Ashoka's minister😲 (looks like he would have been in a state of something better than none!). We have seen Khallat mahaamatya now, still I wish he was shown a little more intelligent, than only asking questions always. Only time he shared an opinion, it was grossly wrong (Nirjara's treachery). Can't he think of a possibility of she being stuck dangerously somewhere or her life in danger? What kind of trust is this? These spies risk their lives for you and work, and one day she has reported means she has jumped over the fence is it? How can you run a spy network with such trust???? And there seem to be no effort to find out where she is now - none seem to be enquiring about where was, where she went, which way, even as a normal dasi? Instead, kidnapping someone dear to her is now being planned to bring her out.

Our CAS hero, Chanakya:

Goof: If Chanakya can influence Samraat, Radha gupta seem to have influence on Chanakya , especially on such a simple matter as Nirjara's. He seem to be only harping that she is holds the key to the mystery, no solid action in that front. Instead unfortunately, mistrust, though it was not at the outset like Radha gupta, but still allowed himself to be influenced. How come it never occurred to such a shrewd one that Nirjara could be in danger. Is a spy's life and such a reliable one as her worth nothing - no attempt to save her first? If she was given the responsibility to protect Dharma, her life is equally, rather more in danger than Dharma's herself. How the thought that maybe she was identified and eliminated before Dharma never occurred? And if the trust factor was there, the investigation direction would have been different. You would easily have suspected an inner hand. For that matter, if Dharma's life was seen in danger, there must have been a reason for that belief - so, why that line is not being pursued, instead when RG asked, Chanakya only had to say he has no clue who could have done it. Also, if you had trusted Nirjara for her comnmitment, did not occur even a trace if it was Nirjara or Dharma who is actually dead. Because, it is very much possible, that Nirjara could have given her life to save Dharma's. And the face distortion is a confusing factor. So as indicated by a friend in another thread, given the two ladies similarity, he should first ascertain if Nirjara had saved Dharma and laid her life instead, looking for the spy mark. Only the face mark was taken into consideration (that too it was accidental, no special step was taken to examine the body). Now, that the face has revealed so much, before the body being burnt, is it not required to find all possible evidences. There was no post mortem, forget it, not even a mere examination done, which is crucial in such cases.

I was happy when Chanakya said he is not going to go by the bracelet but would like to make sure if Dharma is actually dead. But finally he had gone by the ring and the bracelet. Just like the royal physician was implicated, here also, such things could have happen. Now, let me take your case itself. Nirjara, the traitor could have kidnapped Dharma and put someone else in her place and hence the face distortion also. AAAHHH! 😡 So many such possibilities. Now, why am I doing the CV job here, writing plot after plot. Phew! Now, clearly only the dress and the ornaments seem to be pramaan now. What else is considered to prove it is Dharma? What a weak case. Sorry guys, but CAS Chanakya, let me down in this case.

The court scene was enjoyable as always. Chanakya's wise arguments and silencing of all others and Helena asking for her snub always.

Now regarding the ruthless Chanakya, I am perfectly fine with Chanakya's reaction to Dharma's death and Ashoka's orphaned state. In my humble view, being ruthless, need not be heartless. Because one is so heartfull of love, one may have to take a tough stance at times. A ruthless heart, will have no place for desh bhakti. So, he is ruthless in his approach, but still has a heart. But he has control over his heart, it is his intellect that always governs.

Specific reaction:

- His guilt towards Dharma and wanting to get her the best atleast now and therefore coaxing Bindusar to do the antim karma. His emotions are quite in place according to me.

- He taking responsibility over Ashoka. Fair and justifiable. Shows his nyaay heart.

- Going to any extent to ensure that Dharma gets her best, her right due - making B do the karma

- His smartness in answering Bindusar when asked directly about D-Ashoka rel. He said the truth, yet he did not say it all, and yet it was convincing! Cool man!

- His smartness in turning around B to do his bidding, when all the points put across by others are valid still. He knows where to touch B to get it done.

- His genuine feeling for Dharma and Ashoka, a mother and a son. Appreciable and natural. Nothing wrong.

- Grateful. It is not like he is done with Dharma now and hence he dumped her. He ensured that her sanskaar is done the best way by giving directions to the Purohit

I suppose this track has shown the softer side of Chanakya, thereby not portraying him as a ruthless one as perceived - meaning, he can be ruthless when it comes to his kingdom, but not ridden of some good inner qualities. As I said a lofty quality as desh bhakti, unmindful of sacrificing his all, can have its jananam only in a basically good heart, a minimum requirement I would consider. And a good heart, can never be rid of compassion and other satvic qualities. It is just that what one chooses to exhibit or bring to play based on the situation. So, in my humble view, his ruthlessness has to be understood contextually, which this track has brought out in a way.

Hats off to Manoj Joshi for his excellent acting!⭐️

Bindusar, who loves:

I guess Bindusar was falling in love, if not fallen already with Shubadrangi. He sees his Dharma in her and hence comfortable in sharing in dukh/sukh, inner feelings also. It was odd to hear, but actually a fact that he saw Dharma and Ashoka as his close parivaar.

This now justifies, rather explains why he in the pretext of a kingly responsibility, expresses his grief in failing to protect her. His grief in loosing her is obvious - the final scene with Helena especially (I think Helena should have got a shock of her life). His reaction obviously indicate that it was more than a grief at failing to protect a dasi, who saved his life (which every doctor does). (Folks, if anyone feels it is justifiable for just this reason alone (life savior perspective), I would like to hear your views. I really would like some deeper thoughts on this.)

He listening to his heart and want to do something in return to S and get some peace for himself is appreciable and quite clear. And when Chanakya played the cards right, he fell for it and wanted to do the samskar himself (Chanakya's arguments regarding this were good. I feel Bindusaar fell for it more as a person who loves or wanting to express his gratitude, than as a king. And so did not hesitate to relinquish that if it comes in the way. At the same time, he wanted his sabha also to be happy, saying he will not do it as a king but as an aam aadmi. It takes a lot of courage for a king to do such an act. To me it does not sound silly, though I did condemn it before. But going through the scenes and dialogues and his state, it was a bold decision indeed, a bold decision to go with his heart and give himself some relief. To him it is a big loss as such, not just a daasi as others might view. Chanakya's point that D sacrificed her life, her relationship or being with her son, risking her son and her security to save the king's life. Such sacrifice could be rewarded duly. I do not find it totally untoward. Logic that kind is father of his praja, may not apply, but the sacrifice and more importantly his bhava for her justifies his action, which obviously may not appeal to all others.

So, overall, it all started with Chanakya character being diluted now. But for the handling of the case from Nirjara perspective, am fine with Chanakya portrayal. That is my view of CAS Chanakya as of now. The CVs are doing a great job in general from a show perspective (don't ask me about history 😉) - the plots, especially the court scenes and wise arguments are impressive. Lot of logical questions are being preempted and handled well, giving the story some weight. This track was a drag though. And Ashoka is over dramatized, but never mind, as it is enjoyable as a kid Ashoka.

Thank you for your patient hearing. Would love to hear your views.

Sands, I said that I will revert after watching the episodes. Which I dutifully did and thereafter posted my thoughts also here. Let me know your views. I did not find you commenting on the show or Chanakya, would like to get into your mind - allow me please 😛

Kaana thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
Folks, an important thought I would like to share.

While Chanakya is considered to be very intelligent, in my view, it does not mean that he would have never had failures. It need not be that all his plans need to be successful or all of others' plan need to be known by him upfront. I feel this may be too much of an e pec ration even from the historical figure. His intelligence also lies in how quickly and smartly he comes out of the failure, for that matter even wisely converting the failure to a success.

So, am fine with CAS Chanakya failing also (not failing in investigation- that would be a lacking though).

What do you think ?
sashashyam thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
No, no, my dear! It is very flattering, but I have as much as I can handle with Mahakumbh.

So I shall leave this forum to your care, and that of others who are so active here, once I have, as desired by you, commented on your magisterial post on this page. I did start, but I stupidly closed the page by mistake without having saved my text and it was all gone. I have a painful knee and I cannot type any more right now, but I will be back with my twopennyworth tonight.

Shyamala Aunty

Originally posted by: Kaana

@Maddy: where have you disappeared? Missing your discussion on the show. Pl jump in.
@ Radhika: please join this discussion initiated by Abhay. Would be lovely to hear your views.
@Sands: looking forward to your views too. And Sands, is Divya still around? I miss her Take 5 on Ashoka.
@Shyamala Aunty: Nice to see you here. Looking forward to your views on the Episodes. Can't wait:)
@Shivaaani: hope you heard me. Where are you? Not seeing you around for sometime. Trust your health is fine.
@Cleo: whenever you get time please join in

sashashyam thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
My dear Kaana,

The part in blue is spot on. It is exactly like the well known saying that courage is not the absence of fear, but the ability to master one's fear and soldier on.

As for this Chanakya, I do not think too much of either the casting or the character. I hear much praise of Manish Wadhwa's Chanakya in the recent Chandragupta Maurya, and seeing how good he is in Mahakumbh, I am not surprised. But for me, the definitive TV Chanakya is Chandraprakash Dwivedi in the 1990 serial Chanakya, now being retelecast on Doordarshan.

Chanakya would, to my mind, have been stern, withdrawn, a figure that inspires instant awe and some fear as well. Someone who radiates intelligence, who can dominated one and all without effort. Not someone who looks like a well fed pandit, and has to justify his actions, and his plans, in open court, as if he was a common amaatya.

I do agree that the best detectives look nothing like one but rather like bank clerks, and the best intelligence agents are mousy characters whom you would never notice. But this is the founder of the greatest empire India has ever seen, one of the most astute and subtle strategists and tacticians in world history, and this is NOT how I want him to look!

Overall, the serial is getting to be tiresomely melodramatic, with far too much time spent on Ashoka yearning for his mother, and there is far too much slo mo for his movements, with that ghastly Ashoka hai, Ashoka hai being dinned into one's ears. It is the worst theme piece I have ever heard for a historical serial so far.

The emperor is a typical TV serial male lead (for the present), who never knows ki uski nak je neeche kya kya khichdi pak rahi hai, and with no judgment of his near ones, all of whom are plotting against him to different degrees. Jalal in Jodha Akbar, Bindusara here, that is all the difference. The Queen Mother looks dessicated, and her son is tiresome, with his one expression fits all scenes, when he is not casting sly and entirely inappropriately pleased side glances at his matera.

But for young Siddharth, who made me watch it in the first place, and pay extra for the channel to boot - and he is being seriously under-utilised and made to show standard issue emotions for the most part, as anyone who has seen him as the young Rudra in Mahakumbh will agree - I would quit. If I wanted endless murderous intrigues, I would rather go back to the ancient I, Claudius, with Derek Jacoby!

Shyamala Aunty

Originally posted by: Kaana

Folks, an important thought I would like to share.

While Chanakya is considered to be very intelligent, in my view, it does not mean that he would have never had failures. It need not be that all his plans need to be successful or all of others' plan need to be known by him upfront. I feel this may be too much of an e pec ration even from the historical figure. His intelligence also lies in how quickly and smartly he comes out of the failure, for that matter even wisely converting the failure to a success.

So, am fine with CAS Chanakya failing also (not failing in investigation- that would be a lacking though).

What do you think ?

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